Alterative Deep Strike (Post Beta Rule) - "Danger Close"

[Dark_Master]

So deep strike has taken a big hit, while I agree that something needed doing, think the FAQ went too far with 9” rule still in place.

I had an idea to scrap the 9” rule (keeping the Turn 2 rule) and replace with a ‘danger close’ rule.

Deep strike: a unit may deep strike onto the board as long as there is physical space for the entire unit (and transport) to be set up 1” away from surrounding units.

Danger Close: If there is a unit within 2” of the deepstriking unit (friendly or opposing) then roll a D6 for each model of the smallest unit. On a roll of 4-6 both units suffer 1 mortal wound.

If there is more than one opposing unit within 2”, the opponent decides which of his units is affected.

Opinions? I feel this would add a more tactical approach to deepstriking while preventing abuse (Although failing to bubble wrap your Lord of War will be bad) and more thematic (drop pods are supposed to cause shock and awe)

DM

[The Unseen]

Nope nope nope

You'd see cheap squads of deep striking units there just to cause mortal wounds.

 

You'd be better of bringing back scatter

[Panzer]

Yeah we don't need more mortal wound spam. Also you'd see a lot of flamer, melta and melee units just dropping 3" away and be in the ideal range for their weapons/easy charge range. So instead of having a tough alpha strike we would then have an utterly devastating beta strike which is imo even worse for the game.

[Dark_Master]

Nope nope nope

You'd see cheap squads of deep striking units there just to cause mortal wounds.

 

You'd be better of bringing back scatter

Thats why you have the opponent choosing with unit is effected, therefore making people support LOW with a bubble wrap unit, not just leaving them stuck by themselves

 

DM

[Dark_Master]

Yeah we don't need more mortal wound spam. Also you'd see a lot of flamer, melta and melee units just dropping 3" away and be in the ideal range for their weapons/easy charge range. So instead of having a tough alpha strike we would then have an utterly devastating beta strike which is imo even worse for the game.

Exactly forcing people to think about supporting units and thinking tactically, not just a alpha gun line to blow the other side away turn one.

 

DM

[MARK0SIAN]

I do support a reduction or removal of the 9 inch range for second turn deepstrike assault units but I agree with the comments above I’m afraid.

 

Perhaps a rule to encourage charging units like ‘you may deepstrike 6 inches away from enemy models in your second turn but if you do, you may not fire any ranged weapon for the remainder of the turn.’

[chapter master 454]

Was going to post...was going to and was well and truly nearly about to get to the main part of it when the forum decided to have a hissy fit on me...at some point I will return and once again I will go toe-to-toe with people as to why this change is good and doesn't hurt people and why it is needed. Don't worry, I will return because this seems to be my new war to wage.

[Panzer]

 

Yeah we don't need more mortal wound spam. Also you'd see a lot of flamer, melta and melee units just dropping 3" away and be in the ideal range for their weapons/easy charge range. So instead of having a tough alpha strike we would then have an utterly devastating beta strike which is imo even worse for the game.

Exactly forcing people to think about supporting units and thinking tactically, not just a alpha gun line to blow the other side away turn one.

 

DM

 

 

There's nothing tactical about being forced to delay your drop for a turn but then being able to hit twice as hard.

[chapter master 454]

ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLRIGHT, lets go, this time with the power of openoffice and my need to ensure people understand things, I will post this this time!

 

Right so, let me be clear if I have not been clear in the past present and thus attempt to be clear in the future: THIS CHANGE IS GOOD.

So let me begin this with some beginning statements:

First, hello to all the new players who are losing their minds right now over this change. Yes, I know it seems scary but don't worry, old papa Shigoshi* is here to tell you tales of past glories and completely pooch screwed rules. To the veterans, you can read on for the memories of yore or just curious to see what I say.

 

Also, quick note: tyranid and GK players, raise hands...ok...you lot out unless you are willing to shelf your army in the interest of the greater health of this game. So far I see FAR too many tyranid players complain about being unable to charge turn 1 effectively from deep strike with their entire army to the point it is old and GK players have enough salt to dry up a slannesh demonette. I will only yield to GK players that G.K.s need help but this change doesn't concern you alone so stop acting like it. Yes, you need help but you need cybernetic arms and legs before talking about a backpack!

 

Deep Striking has it is commonly known but now goes by more names than an edgy 14 year-old who learned that latin is a language and thus while under different monikers is largely the same HOWEVER this change was in the interest of adding what could be called “Levers” to an individual unit that could be adjusted for that unit alone without affecting other units, basically the rule is the same across the board but if exceptions need to be made then it can be done unit by unit instead of having to effectively re-write an entire rule or adding a special section to the unit anyway (which all deep striking units had anyway so it's moot). I would like it if they would give it the keyword “Deep Strike” in a similar way to how there is infantry and such, would make things like Auxpex scan easier to explain. I digress.

 

Let me run you through the past of deep striking from 7^th edition backwards. Why is it relevant? Because the rules we are seeing now for deep striking are the same from the past but with LESS restrictions. Yes, you heard right. Deep Strike had MORE restricting rules regarding how it worked along with more bloat to how to functioned along with the primary method of getting into an argument regarding which way an arrow pointed because perceptive is a bloodletter! These all led to deep strike being largely unused because of several reasons but I will lay down the 3 main ones.

 

 

Random Factor. Back in yore, Deep Striking was done with a scatter die and 2D6. So the 2D6 doesn't need explaining as we all know Dice Notation I assume however the scatter die is something else. The Scatter die is comprised of 4 arrows and 2 hits, thus it looks like a standard D6 but with symbols, this die was used for a now defunct weapon group and deep strikes. This die would be rolled once a model from the unit was placed and if an arrow came up, the model shifted in that direction (the physical direction the arrow was pointing, no abstraction here) 2D6 inchs so thus 2 out of 3 units would go 7” in one of 360 possible directions. If the unit landed in terrain, each model would take a roll to see if they died but if they landed on an enemy unit or impassable terrain you got mishaps and those ranged from being outright murdered without question (even if you were a land raider dropping on a grot by the by) to being put back into reserve.

 

Reserve Issues. Another factor in the random element as reserves didn't come on “when wanted” but instead on a die roll made per unit at the beginning of turn 2 onwards so you could, if the dice gods didn't smile, be out of your units for several turns. Some armies could bypass or modify this but not many. This would lead to awkward moments when your power house deep strikers would be stuck waiting around until turn 3 if they rolled badly and on the worst days turn 4. Most people say we don't see the end of turn 2 so think about that. This was bypassed as mentioned by some armies, Daemons and Space Marines I believe got around this issue however they were among the few to have any real use of deep striking as everyone else paid the toll of reserves.

 

Limited Availability. These days, deep striking is far more common from what I see with more units now given access to it. Back then, it was a little rarer and thus not many units used it and a good few that did have it were in fact hindered because back then Deep striking meant you could only shoot, not charge AT ALL unless you had a special rule for it which meant some units, like assault terminators, had it but never used it because why? Better to take the land raider.

 

These three elements meant deep striking was not so effective in general as if you don't like bubble wrapping then you would hate having to deal with scattering. At least in this system you get to pick where they go but back then, you couldn't deep strike so freely needing a MASSIVE area to ensure the unit wouldn't run into something and if you rolled poorly you could be sent 7” away from what you wanted.

 

 

So lets look at the comparison of Old Deep Strike (ODS) Vs. New Deep Strike (NDS) as it stands RIGHT NOW, no beta.

ODS could not occur turn 1 with only some exceptions. NDS can occur turn 1 with anything, no exceptions needed.

ODS required the use of reserve rolls meaning your unit could be delayed past a critical moment. NDS has no reserve rolls and units arrive like wizards, exactly when you want them.

ODS you could only shoot upon arrival, no charging but there were exceptions. NDS you can shoot AND charge the turn you arrive, no rules needed.

ODS could land anywhere you wanted but did have serious RNG (Random Number Generator/Generating) elements which could lead to catastrophic results and often could happen if proper spacing wasn't considered. NDS cannot land wherever it likes, needing a 9.1” buffer zone between enemy units and the arriving unit however has zero random elements to it and is surefire to land where you want it

 

With this is mind, we can see Deep Strike got MASSIVE buffs across the board, in fact little was taken from it in anyway but instead a lot given to it. A lot of restrictions were lifted from it however only one restriction was added that gave an element of risk/reward but also an element of counter play that the opponent could account for more actively and not just “well, just got to keep some guns open for them...wherever they land”.

 

So let me make this clear, this change to Deep Strike is good. Why? Right now, the current game is dominated by Alpha Strike by various armies and this change is a move to help reduce this, why? Because deep striking is a form of “Turn Stealing” as I call it.

What do I mean? Think about it, if your unit isn't on the board, what can they do about it? They can bubble wrap sure but what else? Nothing. That unit is invincible until it comes into the game and when does it arrive? On their turn so it ALWAYS gets to “Go First” which is massive for a lot of units that hit hard because their biggest weakness is winning the First turn so they can. With Deep striking, they don't need to worry about it. They get first move no matter what.

This is a zero cost move to have in play. It's like Mega Infiltrator because instead of doing it during deployment, you do it during your first turn which means you didn't even need to wait for your reserves, you just got them straight away but with a delayed deployment that ensures they can't get alpha struck off the board. This is a powerful thing and was heavily abused by some armies like drop pod marines to in effect “Steal” the opponents turn 1 where they let the opponent go first but their turn 1 shot nothing because there was NOTHING. Oh no, 1 turn of movement they get for free...cool, let drop my pods where I need them and BOOM, I am already there like I deployed there.

 

This change makes it so there is some actual thought and cost to deep striking. You have to wait and if anything it means you get a chance to try and defeat the bubble wrapping of the enemy army. This means players now have to think about how they move in turn 1 as to not lose their bubble wrap and when they take losses, how to shore up the holes.

 

No, there isn't a need to remove the 9” barrier, it is a good thing to have. Melee does NOT NEED BUFFS. Like seriously guys, it doesn't. I hear this and yet...it feels kind of funny. One edition guns are too strong, the next they are too weak. One edition I hear melee is too strong, the next I hear it is weak. Maybe you want to readjust your lenses and focus on the problem with the units possibly being too weak because if anything melee got STRONGER this edition. Sorry, can't hear you over the range buff to charging. Yea, remember those 6” ranges you needed to be at to charge? Yea? Well now the average is 7” and most melee armies have abilities to help get further distances (Banshees average 10” charge distance). Melee is fine and is by all accounts somewhat simpler to follow than what it has been and shooting only seems so powerful because it has been allowed to actually shoot. Who knew guns hurt when you got shot by an army who specialise in guns! I mean, I never expect an ork army to hurt in melee but wow, once I let them get into combat I was shocked. They hurt.

 

This edition is in fact a good edition and these Beta changes existing is a surefire good thing. They are cemented yet and can change but in terms of deep strike, this change hits it square on the head and solves the biggest problem the rule had. But if you don't think it's right then let me know how we can keep turn one deep strike being fair? Because here's my guardian bomb on your infantry line with black guardian stratagem, have fun with that gutted infantry line! Have fun with my dark reapers getting turn 1 every time, even without ynnari soulburst. Do you like my alpha strike? Oh you don't like the fact that my forces don't care about your turn 1? Tough, they don't appear until I go so until then deal with my chaff.

 

Another note is the change to power level requirement: GOOD CHANGE! GOOD CHANGE! Why? I actually like the idea of having to balance your power level and unit count together along with points in general, it means now you can't just bring chaff along, dump it on the board and have the other 3-5 units you brought who actually do things hide. Now you have to put some commitment on the board and not just the “Tax Troops” which can help bring alpha strikes into line somewhat now.

 

Now we just need people to play games with actually LoS blocking terrain** and we are sorted.

 

Addendum:

*Shigoshi is my more common alias online to see. It's just japanese for 4-5-4 (Shi = 4, Go = 5)

 

**As a note in regards to LoS terrain, I have recently been playing my friend with a rule of abstraction that uses a sort of mix between 4^th edition unit sizes and true line of sight. We like to rule some terrain, like marshes with vegetation as LoS blocking for infantry unless they are in it and half cover for some larger units, think like walkers and small tanks where as Forests are considered LoS blocking unless in it but instead blocks LoS to units like tanks now as well unless they are really tall but they get half cover from it (think riptides and upwards in height. Land Raiders could hide because forests however). I think this idea might be a good idea to forward to GW imo as in all regards, LoS now is far too easy to achieve.

 

[SpecialIssue]

I'd also bring back reserves, rolling for when your units come in, with stratagems and hq upgrades providing potential to increase/guarantee the odds. Players being able to arrive when and where they want like clockwork, even on t2 makes it way too much of a no-brainer. It needs more serious risk/reward to it.

[allegedlynerdy]

What about something like:

"If you deepstrike within 9" of a unit, that unit is able to fire as if firing overwatch, and all units within range can. Each unit can fire against deepstrikers up to two times unless otherwise noted."