Post-tournament blues

[M.Redbeard]

Hail Brothers,

Well if I may I have a little rant to make, since I feel pretty burned out after a newcommers tournament yesterday that I went to.

After the first two games, one against the Necrons and one against the Ultras where good games, one win and a loss, but it was brave game charging the gunline amd trying to tie up every single unit, I had fun.

Then came the third game against T'au. With a Stormsurge and a bit of luck with the terrain he had a massive advantage, but I was determined to smack that thing with Bjorn and show him what our Dread thinks of his points. I go first, moving all my units up the board, my Razor, Bloodclaws, WGBL, Rune Priest on Bike and Bjorn. I do not have the firepower for a protracted fight. Cast Storm Call on turn, and before shooting he moves his Kroots out of the way. No problem. I can still hit his Fire Warriors. I do a few wounds on the Storm Surge and call it a turn.

Then he goes. He moves his Stormsurge, Longshot and a Commander across the board. The Commander Manta Strike's outside the deployment zone. My bad for not catching it. He declares Kauyon with his commander. His commander that is alone and with no units within 6". He rerolls all his hit rolls. He declares Mont'Ka with a "stratagem" his heavy weapon of thr Longstrike is hitting without penalties. He shoots my Razor out of the board, rolling a 6 to wound on the Rail Gun causing automatic 6 damage (not D6, straight 6) and a mortal wound. He wipes the Blood Claws and leaves a single Grey Hunter. I have only a pack On the Hunt Left, a WGPL and my three characters. Tough, going against T'au I knew the Gunline was strong. I still can kill the Stormsurge. I Smite and charge it. My second GH pack arrives but is wiped by his commanders systems. He uses a "stratagem" to Overwatch on 4+ aside from his Standard 5+ for being T'au. My WGBL tanks a Longstrike and Stormsurge overwatch on his shield, a total boss. I charge Bjorn, he attempts to Overwatch again with The Greater Good ability, which he already used. I tell him off and charge my characters. I wound the Lord of War to 1 wound remaining. Valiant effort but I know I am lost.

Next turn. He Falls back. Predictable. He heals the Stormsurge. Good stratagem. 4 wounds. He heals again with another stratagem, he is up a bracket. He wipes me off the map, leaving only the WGPL left. I concede, a bit sad of losing that badly but okay with the brave effort of charging and going against a superior force, with Index only and after 4 months of playing.

Today I start reading... only Farsight and Shadowsun can use more than once Master of War. Kroot must move before the first Battle Round, not the first shooting phase. Kauyon only applies to units within 6" and that haven't moved, same as Mont'ka. There is only a single stratagem to heal, so even with anchors he has hitting on 5+. The Railgun does D6 damage not straight 6... and I feel robbed. I was probably going to lose that game. But it would've been massively different if I could claim first blood against his Kroot, if I had a screen for more than a single turn by a surviving Razor and Infantry units, if I was able to claim a second victory point for the point where his commander was sitting and that I could reach with my GH, if his second turn of shooting was nerfed... and I feel bad. I feel like waiting for the Codex and playing only then. I won't but I feel down in the dumps after such a bad game. Any recommendations?

 

Edit: Corrected several errors.

[SW1]

Know your enemy. If something feels off ask to see the rules in original form. If they can't provide it they ain't doing it.

 

I'll probably get in trouble for it but the original Bjorn in a sock also works. :p

[Krakendoomcool]

That’s sound advice from SW1.

 

There used to be universal special rules so it was a lot easier to know what was going on. Now you have to know everyone else’s codexes for them.

[SW1]

Any opponent should have an army list and be willing to answer general questions about their army. Show fake interest and ask a few questions how does that work etc. if they seem cagey about answering change the charm offensive to a formal show me your army lost and codex. Spot check a few points and make sure the points total adds up correctly.

 

If someone is willing to cheat with the rules they will have shoehorned a few extra models wargear in there as well. ;)

[ChicagoMP]

 

 

I'll probably get in trouble for it but the original Bjorn in a sock also works.  

I knew there was a reason I still had the old Bjorn...

[TiguriusX]

Sounds like my escalation league experience as a beginner (I have a whole thread on that in this forum)

 

Knowing your opponent's rules/codex is just as important as knowing your own rules

You'll be fine.  I am just surprised it was a "tournament" and he didn't have to give you a copy of his list

 

battlescribe prints all the rules on there and is very convenient

[Kasper_Hawser]

Hail Brothers,

 

Well if I may I have a little rant to make, since I feel pretty burned out after a newcommers tournament yesterday that I went to.

 

After the first two games, one against the Necrons and one against the Ultras where good games, one win amd a loss, but it was brave game charging the gunline amd trying to tie up every single unit, I had fun.

 

Then came the third game against T'au. With a Stormsurge and a bit of luck with the terrain he had a massive advantage, but I was determined to smack that thing woth Bjorn and show him what pur Dread thinks of his points. I go first, moving all my units uo thr board, my Razor, Bloodclaws, WGBL, Rune Priest on Bike and Bjorn. I do not have the firepoqer for a protracted fight. Cast Storm Call on turn, and before shooting he moves his Kroots out of the way. No problem. I can still hit his Fire Warriors. I do a few wounds on the Storm Surge and call it a turn.

 

Then he goes. He moves his Stormsurge, Longshot and a Commander across the board. The Commander Manta Strike's outside the deployment zone. My bad for not catching it. He declares Kauyon with his commander. His commander that is alone and with no units within 6". He rerolls all his hit rolls. He declares Mont'Ka with a "stratagem" his heavy weapon of thr Longstrike is hitting withou penalties. He shoots my Razor out of the board, rolling a 6 to wound on the Rail Gun causing automatic 6 damage (not D6, straight 6) and a mortal wound. He wipes the Blood Claws and leaves a single Grey Hunter. I have only a pack On the Hunt Left, a WGPL and my three characters. Tough, going against T'au I knew thr Gunline was strong. I still can kill the Stormsurge. I Smite and charge it. My second GH pack arrives but is wiped by his commanders systems. He uses a "stratagem" to Overwatch on 4+ aside from his Standard 5+ for being T'au. My WGBL tanks a Longstrike and Stormsurge overwatch on his shield, a total boss. I charge Bjorn, he attempts to Overwatch again with The Greatwr Good ability, which he already used. I tell him off and charge my characters. I wound the Titan to 1 wound remaining. Valiant effort but I know I am lost.

 

Next turn. He Fallsback. Predictable. He heals the Stormsurge. Good stratagem. 4 wounds. He heals again with another stratagem, he is up a bracket. He wipes me off the map, leaving only the WGPL left. I concede, a bit sad of losing that badly but okay with the vrave effort of charging and goinf against a superior force, with Index only and after 4 months of playing.

 

Today I start reading... only Farsight and Shadowsun can use more than once Master of War. Kroot must move before the first Battle Round, not the first shooting phase. Kauyon only applies to units within 6" and that haven't moved. There is only a single stratagem to heal, so even with anchors he has hitting on 5+. The Railgun does D6 damage not straight 6... and I feel robbed. I was probably going to lose that game. But it woudl,ve been massively different if I could claim first blood against his Kroot, if I had a screen for more than a single turn by a surviving Razor and Infantry units, if I was able to claim a second victory point for the point where his commander was sitting and that I could reach with my GH, if his second turn of ahooting was nerfed... and I feel bad. I feel like waiting for the Codex and playing only then. I won't but I feel down in the dumps after such a bad game. Any recommendations?

 

OK that guy is really a cheater. As you say, no way he should get an AUTOMATIC 6 damage. He should still be rolling D6 damage. and THEN, a mortal wound if he rolls a six to wound.

 

Anyway it's perfectly alright to feel bummed out. I also felt this way even during the early Index days. I think you did everything right, played aggressively with multiple targets and aggro management. The guy is just a cheater and that's that. 

 

If you are feeling outmaneuvered by the recently updated codexes and their strategems, then I suggest next you play,  ask to limit the strategems to the BRB ones, along with yours. Let him have his relics and warlord traits, but not the strategem. This will lessen the "Shenanigans" of the codexes, so at least if you lose, it'll be due to a strategic decision, as opposed to a strategem gimmick.

 

Then as you read more and more about the other codexes and become more familiar with their strategems (at least the useful ones, no need to remember ALL their strategems), then you ask bit by bit to play normal strategems.

 

I did this for a few months before I finally found my equilibrium list which I felt confident even when facing a full codex army. May not win at all, but at least I no longer feel SMASHED. 

 

Because sadly, some people do not know how to tone down their lists. Try identify these fellows and avoid them like the plague.

 

Once again, please do not give up hope. However, to ensure you don't kick yourself down into a spiral, I got one simple advice....

 

... do not play against the Tau. Not because I think they're OP. I literally think their army is boring to play against, especially if he spams drones up the wazoo. So don't push yourself further down that hole until your confidence is up again.

 

forgot to ask, which one did you win against, the Ultra or the Necron? Either way you should congratulate yourself as both are considered very strong, especially the new Crons.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Know your enemy. If something feels off ask to see the rules in original form. If they can't provide it they ain't doing it.

 

I'll probably get in trouble for it but the original Bjorn in a sock also works. :p

Nothing wrong with the Bjorn Exterminatus-sock in my book! ;)

[ChicagoMP]

In the immortal words of Sun Tzu, 'Know thy enemy, and call out their bull s***"

[SW1]

 

Know your enemy. If something feels off ask to see the rules in original form. If they can't provide it they ain't doing it.

 

I'll probably get in trouble for it but the original Bjorn in a sock also works. :p

Nothing wrong with the Bjorn Exterminatus-sock in my book! ;)

I have 4 of the old lead ones so two pairs of socks and you have a flail. :p

[greysquigg]

My only advice against a cheater is call a TO or judge over to check stuff. If you're unsure just play the ignorance card. Ask another player etc. 

 

If you're not playing against a cheater and a judge comes over then your opponent should be chill over the whole thing. If you're playing a cheater you'll see the rage!

 

It's totally ok to talk to judges mid game. It's up to both of you to keep the game as clean as poss and some people just don't know their own rules. A lot of the time, people will read what they want to read and won't understand it objectively. Wording can be a bit of a misdemeanour for some so you've also gotta cut them a bit of slack. I had an opponent who thought "death to the false emperor" happened on shooting and melee. Was just a misunderstanding. 

[M.Redbeard]

Know your enemy. If something feels off ask to see the rules in original form. If they can't provide it they ain't doing it.

 

I'll probably get in trouble for it but the original Bjorn in a sock also works.

Nothing by itself felt too off. Kauyon and Mont'Ka exist, they just have limited range and a extra conditions. Railgun on a character I believed to be better than a normal eapon. Ways to do a once in a battle thing exist. Move before a turn can be a thing... he as just close enough so it felt off but nothing for the judges. No I regret it.

 

 

Any opponent should have an army list and be willing to answer general questions about their army. Show fake interest and ask a few questions how does that work etc. if they seem cagey about answering change the charm offensive to a formal show me your army lost and codex. Spot check a few points and make sure the points total adds up correctly.

 

If someone is willing to cheat with the rules they will have shoehorned a few extra models wargear in there as well.

He did have an army list... hand written. He did have his Codex were he "looked" before doing several things. I have asked the organizers for a copy if they have one and I can see it, because more than the ponts, I believe he only had a Strike Team and some Krott, but treated the drones as troop.

 

 

Sounds like my escalation league experience as a beginner (I have a whole thread on that in this forum)

 

Knowing your opponent's rules/codex is just as important as knowing your own rules

 

You'll be fine.  I am just surprised it was a "tournament" and he didn't have to give you a copy of his list

 

battlescribe prints all the rules on there and is very convenient

I did have my on print, we were required to have them, but they didn't change hands. He had his hand written, make them harder to check.

 

 

 

Hail Brothers,

 

Well if I may I have a little rant to make, since I feel pretty burned out after a newcommers tournament yesterday that I went to.

 

After the first two games, one against the Necrons and one against the Ultras where good games, one win amd a loss, but it was brave game charging the gunline amd trying to tie up every single unit, I had fun.

 

Then came the third game against T'au. With a Stormsurge and a bit of luck with the terrain he had a massive advantage, but I was determined to smack that thing woth Bjorn and show him what pur Dread thinks of his points. I go first, moving all my units uo thr board, my Razor, Bloodclaws, WGBL, Rune Priest on Bike and Bjorn. I do not have the firepoqer for a protracted fight. Cast Storm Call on turn, and before shooting he moves his Kroots out of the way. No problem. I can still hit his Fire Warriors. I do a few wounds on the Storm Surge and call it a turn.

 

Then he goes. He moves his Stormsurge, Longshot and a Commander across the board. The Commander Manta Strike's outside the deployment zone. My bad for not catching it. He declares Kauyon with his commander. His commander that is alone and with no units within 6". He rerolls all his hit rolls. He declares Mont'Ka with a "stratagem" his heavy weapon of thr Longstrike is hitting withou penalties. He shoots my Razor out of the board, rolling a 6 to wound on the Rail Gun causing automatic 6 damage (not D6, straight 6) and a mortal wound. He wipes the Blood Claws and leaves a single Grey Hunter. I have only a pack On the Hunt Left, a WGPL and my three characters. Tough, going against T'au I knew thr Gunline was strong. I still can kill the Stormsurge. I Smite and charge it. My second GH pack arrives but is wiped by his commanders systems. He uses a "stratagem" to Overwatch on 4+ aside from his Standard 5+ for being T'au. My WGBL tanks a Longstrike and Stormsurge overwatch on his shield, a total boss. I charge Bjorn, he attempts to Overwatch again with The Greatwr Good ability, which he already used. I tell him off and charge my characters. I wound the Titan to 1 wound remaining. Valiant effort but I know I am lost.

 

Next turn. He Fallsback. Predictable. He heals the Stormsurge. Good stratagem. 4 wounds. He heals again with another stratagem, he is up a bracket. He wipes me off the map, leaving only the WGPL left. I concede, a bit sad of losing that badly but okay with the vrave effort of charging and goinf against a superior force, with Index only and after 4 months of playing.

 

Today I start reading... only Farsight and Shadowsun can use more than once Master of War. Kroot must move before the first Battle Round, not the first shooting phase. Kauyon only applies to units within 6" and that haven't moved. There is only a single stratagem to heal, so even with anchors he has hitting on 5+. The Railgun does D6 damage not straight 6... and I feel robbed. I was probably going to lose that game. But it woudl,ve been massively different if I could claim first blood against his Kroot, if I had a screen for more than a single turn by a surviving Razor and Infantry units, if I was able to claim a second victory point for the point where his commander was sitting and that I could reach with my GH, if his second turn of ahooting was nerfed... and I feel bad. I feel like waiting for the Codex and playing only then. I won't but I feel down in the dumps after such a bad game. Any recommendations?

 

OK that guy is really a cheater. As you say, no way he should get an AUTOMATIC 6 damage. He should still be rolling D6 damage. and THEN, a mortal wound if he rolls a six to wound.

 

Anyway it's perfectly alright to feel bummed out. I also felt this way even during the early Index days. I think you did everything right, played aggressively with multiple targets and aggro management. The guy is just a cheater and that's that. 

 

If you are feeling outmaneuvered by the recently updated codexes and their strategems, then I suggest next you play,  ask to limit the strategems to the BRB ones, along with yours. Let him have his relics and warlord traits, but not the strategem. This will lessen the "Shenanigans" of the codexes, so at least if you lose, it'll be due to a strategic decision, as opposed to a strategem gimmick.

 

Then as you read more and more about the other codexes and become more familiar with their strategems (at least the useful ones, no need to remember ALL their strategems), then you ask bit by bit to play normal strategems.

 

I did this for a few months before I finally found my equilibrium list which I felt confident even when facing a full codex army. May not win at all, but at least I no longer feel SMASHED. 

 

Because sadly, some people do not know how to tone down their lists. Try identify these fellows and avoid them like the plague.

 

Once again, please do not give up hope. However, to ensure you don't kick yourself down into a spiral, I got one simple advice....

 

... do not play against the Tau. Not because I think they're OP. I literally think their army is boring to play against, especially if he spams drones up the wazoo. So don't push yourself further down that hole until your confidence is up again.

 

forgot to ask, which one did you win against, the Ultra or the Necron? Either way you should congratulate yourself as both are considered very strong, especially the new Crons.

 

I have not given up hope, I have a few games already lined up, two against the Necrons and one against Mechanicum. I am more upset about middle of the table with 7 points after two games and losing all the points after since I had nothing left because of quite abusive gamer against.

 

i won against the Necrons, but I think she was a pretty new player. She was playing the Assault dinasty, with two units of Warriors, a unit of Immortals, an Overlord, a Cryptek, a Stalker, a unit of Wraiths, a unit of 6 Scarabs and a Spyder. It was killpoints for that round, with linebreaker, Slay the Warlord and First Blood. We each had a troop in DS. She went first. Ineffective shooting but since she had 6" immidiate advance a turn one charge with teh Wratihs against my Blood Claws. managed to weather and kill a Wraith with an Invervention from Bjorn, only three Blood Claws left. Fell back, cast Storm Caller for extra cover and shot the Twin Assault at the Wraiths. Only One wound, melta and plasma saved so appaling shooting. Charge the WGBL. All the Hammer blows saved. I am in a hard spot. She uses Veil of Darkness and her DS to get in my lines with the warriors. Ineffective shooting thanks to Storm Caller, losing only a couple of BC and a few GH. Charges the Spyder and teh scarabs. Her mistakes, uses the Scarabs to fight first. Pay two Command points to interrupt, kill another Wraith. Use Bjorn's Warlod trait to fight the Spyder next. Goes pop easily. Mange First Blood. Everything of mine survives. DS the pack of GH for Linebreaker. Smite the remaining Wraith in the next turn and clear the scarabs for two more points. Charge the Stalker with Bjorn and WGBL, and make short order of it, since I had appaling throws on damage, which means she couldn't use Quantum Shielding effectively. Time is up and I win. had a good position so pretty confident that even going foward could have manged to get the Warriors in the fight and stop them from shooting. 

 

Against the Ultras, well managed to get First Blood and Linebreaker, but after chargin Bjorn he had too much firepower with him as the closest model. Still until the las Lascannon shot he survived. Fun game and probably a learning experience that soaking up the overwatch with a Razoback from standard marines is definetly not worth it. Still the melta got his Redemptor and killed the Liutenant and got the Chapter master to one wound, but a failed Rune Priest charge meant he lived. A fun game and a learning experience. 

 

And I will use your advice. Against the more experience oponents I will ask to restrict stratagems.

 

 

In the immortal words of Sun Tzu, 'Know thy enemy, and call out their bull s***"

Doing that, learning more rules every day.

 

 

My only advice against a cheater is call a TO or judge over to check stuff. If you're unsure just play the ignorance card. Ask another player etc. 

 

If you're not playing against a cheater and a judge comes over then your opponent should be chill over the whole thing. If you're playing a cheater you'll see the rage!

 

It's totally ok to talk to judges mid game. It's up to both of you to keep the game as clean as poss and some people just don't know their own rules. A lot of the time, people will read what they want to read and won't understand it objectively. Wording can be a bit of a misdemeanour for some so you've also gotta cut them a bit of slack. I had an opponent who thought "death to the false emperor" happened on shooting and melee. Was just a misunderstanding. 

Nothing fell too off, which is why I didn't call a judge. I was actually pretty happy after the tournament, feeling a job well done. It was when curiosity hit me that I saw all the things that were wrong... and it felt like cheating rather than errors. An error or two can be explained. That many either he doesn't know his codex at all, which he conulted before doing several of the things mentioned, or he abused hard. Still, I am learning, I think I have a decent memory. 

[Kasper_Hawser]

Good for you redbeard. I still say avoid Tau, unless you are sure the guy you are playing is a fun guy to play with.