Charging from deepstrike with fly- can I get a short charge

[Madmonkeyman]

So units with fly completely ignore vertical distance when moving as per the faq. When I land 9 inches away when deepstriking I measure actual distance base to base. If the unit I deepstrike near is on an elevated position my effective charge range can be much shorter than 9 now as I completely ignore the vertical component. Is this correct?

[Helycon]

No. You still measure diagonally. That's the distance you need to be clear and you need to charge.

 

The exact same would apply to shooting as well. You measure from and to the models.

 

The thing flybhas going for it, is not having to measure both the horizontal and vertical distance and add them up.

[Madmonkeyman]

I don’t think that’s what it says : you measure the actual distance base to base to make sure you are within 12 to declare a charge. When you actually charge you only measure the horizontal distance. If you measure base to base for the charging units movement then you are including the vertical movement which is not what the rules say.

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move for the unit?

A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical distances when making a charge move. Note though that the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to declare the charge in the first place.

[Madmonkeyman]

There is also an old faq saying you need a 9 inch charge out of deepstrike

 

Though this doesn’t seem to apply to lots of situations in the game - custodies deep strike 3 inches away and charging ( stratagem ) , calladus infiltrate ability etc

[Eddie Orlock]

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move for the unit?

A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical distances when making a charge move. Note though that the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to declare the charge in the first place.

This is how I played it when I used 'Da Jump' on my Storm Boyz last week.

 

It makes raised vantage points a curious liability when being assailed by corner case reserve flying units.

 

Of course, I also subscribe to the interpretation that non-flying units generally measure movement as a path along the nape of the terrain.

[wildweasel]

There is also an old faq saying you need a 9 inch charge out of deepstrike

 

Though this doesn’t seem to apply to lots of situations in the game - custodies deep strike 3 inches away and charging ( stratagem ) , calladus infiltrate ability etc

Said FAQ was basically in response to people not groking that the usual case of “set up MORE than 9” away” is indeed more than 9” as opposed to exactly 9” and thus a charge roll of an 8 would be insufficient. It was an answer to the widely prevailing common case and serves as an example of how to determine charge distances in similar situations, not as a hard restriction regardless of the specific circumstance.

[Madmonkeyman]

totally agree thats what the fat was meant for.  Ive posted it on the competitive 40k FB page and the argument people are using is that an faq says you always need a 9 to charge.  To be fair to them it kind of does say that ( I totally know its not what its meant to say). ( personally I think it doesn't apply given that loads of units can charge less than 9: custodies near a banner on deepstrike, caladus assassin, GSC)

[Quixus]

It makes raised vantage points a curious liability when being assailed by corner case reserve flying units.

Only if there is room on the raised area. Being on the ground near high terrain pieces seems the greater vulnerability.

[Eddie Orlock]

Only if there is room on the raised area. Being on the ground near high terrain pieces seems the greater vulnerability.

There's been some debate here in the past about how 'powerful' FAQs can be in overturning the rules text, but that may be rather moot if this is how the meta-driving major event judges elect to enforce it.

 

From what I read of that response, there's an interpretation that there are two circumstance they're responding to. One is if a unit was completely surrounded in base to base with some friendly chaff such that there was no open base contact that unit can't be charged even by a unit that could ignore the chaff for charge movement purposes. The other is dealing with differentially passable terrain and just reinforcing that your knight categorically can not charge some infantry in the upper level of a ruin.

 

Invoking WMS to claim models clinging to walls may still comply with that response.

 

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Speaking of FAQ power, if someone was to open a new thread dealing with movement measuring that introduced that I think I've had some more satisfactory thoughts on that subject that rely less on FAQ responses to deliver customary results.