Use of Conscripts?

[Tirak]

Mental Fortitude is a superfluous card to play with LD8 or 9 infantry that can only be removed in blocks of 10. While the ability has merit in regards to conscripts it is a waste of a spell when applied towards infantry. In such a case strategems take up the slack when needed. The Guard can make use of the 2cp rally and the 1cp d3 morale check to ensure survival against shooting attack. In the case of being charged we'll dispense with the obvious of if your tanks are charged close you have larger problems and focus on the role selected for this platoon, screen. In such a case, the infantry fall back, opening the bubble and the tank deals with the threat. Or if tied up with chaff then merely thoughtful casualty movement is required to keep the tank active and firing.

 

Segmenting the infantry plays much more into our favor as it allows us to encourage overkill. A conscript squad that takes 15 wounds has taken 15 wounds. An infantry squad that takes 15 wounds takes 10 and 5 are wasted. Furthermore it complicates an enemy melee strike against multiple infantry squads, forcing the enemy to gamble when splitting attacks.

 

When used as a screen the value is vastly in favor of Infantry, and to be blunt any Imperial Guard Commander trying to win on drops is playing the wrong faction. You do raise an interesting point about kill points, so long as the tourney you play at hasn't instituted a modified version, such as Adepticon did. With that said, even with that risk the Infantry Squad offers flexability durability and reliability, whereas the conscript squad requires first turn to ensure a psychic power to go off, a 30pt astropath and a 16pt commissar to screen. At the current even point value that is a fool's bargain. Conscripts were good once and had great potential, those days are over.

[Akrim]

Can't say I agree first turn - that door swings both ways even if one doesn't have first turn the option is there to Insane Bravery the entire Conscript squad in an emergency.

 

Entering the question into the tournament sphere is murky now post-FAQ as a big number of previous seasons lists are now invalidated. I never said I was winning by drops but I do utilize vehicle squadrons, which has my drop number lower or equal to many of the lists I see barring very elite lists. Its not critical but going first turn with Astra can be quite juicy as you can zap any fast T1 charge threats. Personally Im of the ITC-rules persuasion so Kill Points / First Blood are certainly a big consideration. To that end it allows me to cram a lot more bodies into a Battalion for less drops / kill points.

I do run Infantry squads too but I utilize these in a heavier fire support role (Cadian squads w/ Plasma / Lascannons - Take Aim order) so not something I want to screen with. Typically Ill use Mental Fortitude from a Primaris then if the Conscripts die I shift his psyking to Psychic Barrier on something so he never really becomes dead points.

If youre factoring without ITC or Maelstrom cards-type missions where unit kills are a factor - then the scales tip more in the favor of Infantry squad / Commissar screening and certainly combining Infantry squads is an option for creating larger squads if you have the CP to burn.

 

[Tirak]

Combined Squads is counter productive and makes an infantry squad more vulnerable to mass attack. You're taking one of the greatest strengths of multiple infantry squads operating in concert as contained wound batteries and exposing yourself to greater morale damage and safer overkill for your opponent.

 

You seem to be missing the fact that conscripts and guardsmen cost the same when you say you don't want to screen with your infantry because you like to kit them out heavily. This is a common mistake. By replacing conscripts with naked infantry squads you gain all the benefits I have laid out before, in addition to higher ws, bs and ld, as well as gain much more flexability in the late game where your screen can efficiently push out to cover multiple angles and objectives. The trick is to understand how to deploy your screen properly.

 

Interspersed squads allow you to lose an entire squad without putting holes in your screen the enemy can exploit. Tight positioning so that a charge on one must be a charge on all. Now that blast templates are a thing of the past the kind of open spaces deployment is no longer required for a screen.

 

Similarly, you appear to be operating under the assumption that 3 10 man squads are more vulnerable than one 30 man squad. This is untrue. 3 infantry squads are 3 contained targets that must be selected individually before dice are rolled. Because of this it is much more likely for an opponent to overcommit or under commit to a target and thus failing to gain maximum efficiency from their fire. I'll use the example again of a conscript force taking 15 wounds has taken 15 wounds plus 7+d6 additional wounds when ridden herd by a commissar whereas 3 infantry squads may find that spread out at 5 apiece, allowing a for fairly easy morale checks if given the support of natural morale buffs, a banner or that same commissar. In such a case 3 squads survive with nearly half their number remaining whereas the conscript squad is reduced to as little as 10~15% remaining. In order to match that it requires the addition if a psyker to ride herd and have cast a spell successfully on the previous turn, or burning 2cp for the single autopass per turn or fall back on 7+d3 additional wounds which will still bring your conscript squad under 20% survival rate.

[Akrim]

You seem to be missing the fact that conscripts and guardsmen cost the same when you say you don't want to screen with your infantry because you like to kit them out heavily. This is a common mistake. By replacing conscripts with naked infantry squads you gain all the benefits I have laid out before, in addition to higher ws, bs and ld, as well as gain much more flexability in the late game where your screen can efficiently push out to cover multiple angles and objectives. The trick is to understand how to deploy your screen properly.

Well in the Cadian case its a pretty sweet mistake as Take Aim allows the entire squad to reroll all shots. Im well aware of the WS/BS difference but frankly were talking about lasguns - its not a huge factor.

 

Also I wouldn't bother with Commissars, Banners, etc with Conscripts, its not necessary, Mental Fortitude/Insane Bravery is an auto-pass so they aren't required and there are zero additional wounds. Fair point on multiple objective grabbing but to me presenting less kill points / first blood trumps that.

 

As I said - play what works best for you, not saying you have to agree with me. I just don't agree with your take that Conscripts aren't worth taking. 

[Altasmurf]

There are deffinently bonuses to conscripts. I think Akron has done a good job to find a good use for them. If using conscripts you looking to economize buffing and hinder opponents anti msu tactics. There is so many ways to do mortal wounds to units within x inches of unit Y, doesn't affect conscripts. Infantry squads require less process to utilize, bit conscripts with the right tools can still be useful (screening, maximizing non-order buffs, distraction carnifex, and even limiting drops for example)

[Doof]

Picket lining is okay but unreliable with Infantry squads, particularly if youre attempting to cover multiple tanks. You cannot blanket Mental Fortitude over multiple squads, other buffs also become more finicky when you start looking at wound removal and spread out squads.

 

Rallying multiple Infantry Squads with Get back in the Fight also eats up more orders.

 

You also wind up with more deployment drops and potentially surrender more kill points.

 

Statistically yes of course a Conscript is weaker than an Infantry man, but its important to look beyond stats.

 

To each their own of course - use what works for you. Conscripts work just fine for me, I think a lot of players don't comprehend their potential.

 

I think Akrim has summed up the strengths here pretty convincingly.

 

I think i will brink back a 30 man blob of conscripts to bubble wrap my tanks next game. Far too often I lose 1 squad to shooting and they find a way to charge in.