Some thoughts on listbuilding and strategy for Covenites

[Calyptra]

This is my theoryhammer for our three Covens, based on what seems like the most effective way to use each one's tools.

 

Prophets of Flesh

 

The Prophets are a bit weird, because you get diminishing returns from them if you're not getting shot and making saves. If you play by denying line of sight and rapid redeploynent to dismantle the opposing army, the Prophets effectively punish you via opportunity cost for playing well.

 

The Prophets of Flesh want to walk. Their Obsession doesn't effect vehicles, so they probably don't want to bring many. Instead, I think they want lots of 10-man Wrack units accompanied by enough Haemonculi to spread around their Master of Pain bubbles. Having several big Wrack units should provide a lot of options for timely use of the Prophets' Wrack recycling strategem.

 

That's all I've got for Prophets. Bring lots of Wracks and walk.

 

Coven of Twelve

 

The Twelve can spend a CP to shoot into melee, provided all friendly units involved are from the Coven of Twelve. The most shooting you can get from a single Coven unit is three Talos. Three Talos with splinter cannons will cause 9 wounds. If the friendly unit in the combat they're shooting into is a Venom or Raider, you'll only wound it on 6s with friendly fire. Alternatively, 3 Talos with haywire blasters should cause 3 mortal wounds and 2 regular wounds to a T 7 vehicle, and probably won't hurt any Wracks in combat with it.

 

Also, 3 Talos with chainflails will weed wacker their way through 16.2 Guardsmen, or 19.4 Orks, or 9.7 Marines. If it's turn 3, or if it's turn 2 and you spent a CP on Architects of Pain, they'll mulch 20.3 Guardsmen, 24.3 Orks, or 12.2 Marines.

 

Dark Creed

 

While the Prophets like to walk, I think the Dark Creed want to bring a fleet. Having lots of vehicles means you zip them around to stack up Ld debuffs as needed. Raiders are the only way a Coven can bring phantasm launchers, and you want them both for the additional Ld debuff and for the Torment Grenade strategem.

 

The Dark Creed's character sniping strategem is pricey at 2 CP. If you're hoping to take out an HQ with it, 3 Talos with heat lances will do 2 wounds against T 4 or 5. If an invulnerable save stops one of them, you're looking at D6 damage, which probably won't be enough. If you also give the 3 Talos liquifiers you can probably get a couple more wounds in, which might be enough, if you're close enough.

 

The problem with this is that you're stuck with heat lances and liquifiers on your Talos.

 

Alternatively, if you use the strategem to target support characters like Lieutenants, you can just use a disintigrator on a Raider. The disintigrator should do 1.3 wounds to a T4 character and unsaved wounds do 2 damage. That won't kill a Lieutenant outright most of the time, but if you follow it up with a Torment Grenade, the D3 mortal wounds ought to finish him off. In particular I think this strategem is an important tool for removing characters whose Ld shenanigans will interfere with the Dark Creed's Ld shenanigans.

 

Those are my thoughts. They're very much theoryhammer, because while I'm anxious to try them, I need at least one more box of Wracks, and Wracks are seemingly unavailable for purchase anywhere on the planet right now.

[Vel'Cona]

Agreed on most points.  I think the CoT's AP bonus is definitely helpful all-around though their Strategem is rather poor IMO.  DC will be a hot choice for some meme Morale-killing builds especially stacked with Aeldari soup shenanigans, though the Big FAQ took a swipe at this so it may not be as hot as we originally thought (hoped?).  I don't much like their Strategem, either.

 

My personal pick is PoF for "winner" of the three (very much Theoryhammer currently) because I plan to use the Coven as an "armoured spearhead" of sorts.  Where most of the list wants to zoom around and pick off priority targets, the Coven's ability to pump up our already nice 5+ Invuls into 4+ gives the Talos in particular heightened staying power.  Combined with a Haemonculus for +1 T (or Urien Rakarth for +1 S as well) and the ever-present 6+ FnP, you have a surprisingly cheap melee Monster with a splash of shooting that is deceptively hard to kill, allowing you to push hardened objectives and win protracted combats if you pick your targets correctly.  It's worth noting that the Talos can benefit from many of our Strategems to increase mobility/durability as needed, and they're certainly not slow when you consider that they can Advance and still fire their Assault weaponry; my personal pick is the Haywire Blaster for a few extra MW on Vehicles as you move downfield.

[shaun03]

Good points all around. 

 

The sniper stratagem excels at weaker support CH, ever one jump on board and though it has to be used on the warlord. It can and depending on that you shooting with it might be able to kill off some.  But knocking out support CH is where it shines, I tried a few games going right after the warlord and found mixed results.  I got sucked in to it has be for the warlord. Get outside of that box and more options open up. 

 

If you want to soften up HQ up before hitting with the CC that works too, stack with the other 1 CP that permeant weakens the LD is great when it works. But if you able to 1, 2 combo the HQ choice the game should be going well for you. 

 

Venoms vs raiders for Dark creed list, are something I'm still debating my self. MSU seems the best way to stack the LD. But I'm running 2 5 man wracks in raider, so the maxing out the -3LD before the PGL is factored in. GT are worth the points. 

 

POF has one of the best relics  in book, the vector mask is overlooked. And yeah mass bodies lumbering across the board is daunting sight. Talos and grots than wont go down easy.  

 

coven of twelve, I haven't tried personally. 

 

While dark creed is my coven of choice, PoF is stronger competitive choice because they work in any META. 

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, the Dark Creed stratagem pairs nicely with their relic, Spirit Sting. Shooting a pistol while still in melee, popping the stratagem while a character is in range, is hilarious. Yep, targeting him, getting 3 shots, stupid AP, 2 damage each, and Invulnerable saves cannot be taken.

 

Good point about the Raiders though. Dark Lances or Disintegrator Cannons?

[Calyptra]

Well, the Dark Creed stratagem pairs nicely with their relic, Spirit Sting. Shooting a pistol while still in melee, popping the stratagem while a character is in range, is hilarious. Yep, targeting him, getting 3 shots, stupid AP, 2 damage each, and Invulnerable saves cannot be taken.

Good point about the Raiders though. Dark Lances or Disintegrator Cannons?

I don't know how competitive the spirit sting is, but I want to try using it because it seems fun (and I have a Haemonculus I converted to wield dual pistols which seems like a good fit for it).

 

I would not spend CP for a single dark lance shot, because it's unreliable. If I mathed it correctly (and it is likely that I didn't) the odds of hitting and wounding with a single dark lance (both on 3+) are something like 44%.

 

With a disintigrator, it should hit twice and wound 1.3 times, with a flat 2 for damage.

[Withershadow]

The best Dark Creed assassins are the FW vehicles.

[shaun03]

Both the reaper and Tantalus are stand out winners for sniping, Kinda odd and don't think play tester though about FW units. Because just looking in codex there no stand out choices for snipping. Covens lack the shooting options that warriors do, so giving them shooting assassin trick isn't to OP, but using a forge world option makes it downright nasty.  I still on the fence about tantalus cost, sometimes it looks over cost and others not so much. I run it when i can because of rule of cool. 

 

The math doesn't like single shot weapons when trying to take down a HQ.  Run the math on a PGL with 1 cp torment grenade and esoteric kill paired together. Might not be worth the 3 CP and range is short. Falls in to the risk and reward chart. 

 

Totally going to try out the sprit-sing next game, that sounds like good match. Though it was 1 damage tho? Smaller point games points this might be better option than reapers tantalus x 3 talos unit.