Assault Marines good or bad?

[domsto]

Hello

I played some Assault Marines with jump packs in my last few Games, now i am a little undecided if they are good or bad.

 

They seem to lack both in Close Combat and in Firepower, but their mobility is great.

Also with the change to Deepstrike they can't bring early pressure on the enemy gunline anymore.

 

So i am not sure if i should drop them or replace them with the Interceptors, at least they got way more firepower than a Assault Marines Squad.

 

What are your Guys thoughts about Assault Marines?

[The Unseen]

Their pretty bad. As you noticed, inceptors have actual shooting. Anytime you want to bring assault marines for their close combat, take Vanguard instead, they have 150% the damage output, for 2 pts more per model, and can take power weapons on anyone in the squad, along with storm shields.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

It depends on the level of competiiveness, If you're in a tougherenviroment then Inceptors are better.

If you play for beer and preztels and in tables with a fair amount of cover, a kitted out assault squad with a chaplain will be a nice option to use for variety's sake.

In short Inceptors will always be better but if you don't like models to gather dust, like me you'll try to make them work.

[sneakybamsen]

I only bring them when I want to put up a really soft list. They have mobility, yes, but the return investment is so small. Ravenwing bikers for the same points offer much more, and scout bikers hit as hard in close combat (same number of attacks per model). 6 of those for 150 points or 5 ravenwing bikers for 135. You can't even get 10 assault marines with jump packs for that, so you have lower T and less wounds. Besides assault marines, even though chainswords got slightly better in 8th than previously, still don't pack nearly enough of a punch to have an impact. People always end up shooting at them because they are fast, though. So for keeping other models in power armour alive for an additional turn, they are quite good. With the bonus they still just get 21 attacks from 10 guys with chainblades, and the bolt pistol shooting is irrelevant really. Can kill a couple of guardsmen during a game with 10 assault marines, but that's it. They die too fast in CC and don't hit hard enough. Only BA really make assault marines do OK, and then you'd still take Death Company over them any day.

 

I wish assault marines were better, even though I'm a casual player, they just don't have enough to offer for me to really bring them regularly. They were often discussed in 7th as part of the double-demi-shenanigans, some people argued that the detachment with two demi companies, because you had to bring assault marines, were not worth it. Though with drop pods being so good, and free, and thereby bringing 5 marines with double flamers into flamer range on the drop... They had a purpose. In 8th they don't, except for being a mobile distraction. Maybe a reduction in cost on jump packs, so that at least became a lot more appealing, then allowing them some boost, so they have a decent shot at making it into combat with a target they want to fight. Bigger units than 10. 20 assault marines in a squad would not be awesome, probably not even good, but it would draw a lot of attention, and they might still survive long enough to do more than shoot a couple of GEQs.

 

Edit: I really like assault marine models with jump packs. They're iconic and cool. They are just so hard to get to work in the game as it is.

[SnakeChisler]

Combat in 8th is on the whole fairly tame even for so called specialists.

 

You virtually can't fail moral these days and even when you do you can ignore it and to kill anything in cc needs either a billion attacks or decent killing power.

 

The other thing is falling back out of combat and most things can now shoot as they retreat or there's a strategem to do it so the question is what tactical use is 5/10 guys with with poor shooting but extra movement.

 

Extra movement in 8th is brilliant and jump packs on Captains and Lt is a must but the only assault Marines that remotely work are blood Angels and even then it specialist units which carry the real punch.

 

Anyway the best solo DS unit we have to harry in the backfield by charging stuff to try lock it down and mop up weaker units is Reivers, I give mine blades and grapnel launchers hide on the turn they come in then manouvering and use thier overwatch/shooting combat nerf grenade. I find the grapnel launchers more use than DS though your tied to 6" deployment along a board edge.

 

Best unit comboed with a jump pack character is Inceptors, bolter ones need running in at least a couple of squads plasma ones generally only last a turn due to the damage they kick out.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I'm actually beginning to use them as though they are a mobile tactical squad. Instead of using them with assault in mind, use them with objective grabbing or aggro management. At best case scenario, they zip across the table, always behind cover (starting from their deep strike), or they threaten the flank of an enemy a relatively cheap marine unit. Sure they may eat lascannons and other backline guns, but every shot against them, isn't one against your devastators, ravenwing or your "frontline" units.  Can't do them with the beta rules on Turn 1, but it's still useful in Turn 2.

 

Of course my Skyclaws are worse in shooting, but assault marines can also load up on plasma pisol, 2 plasma guns and combi plasma in a 5 man squad i think. Could be worth the risk and cost. Maybe not full plasma loadout, but just enough that your opponent HAS to deal with them or leave a bunch of plasma in his backfield. I believe this loadout is cheaper than a 5 man Hellblaster.

 

Just dont use them for pure assault, despite their name.

[sneakybamsen]

I can't say for the wolves, but DA assault squads can't take plasma guns. They can take plasma pistols, up to 2, and the sergeant can't have a combi-plasma. That's according to my Battlescribe at least. Don't have the codex with me atm, but we don't seem to be able to use assault marines as plasma shock troopers. The idea is nice though, but we will have to make do with vets in a pod for that kind of shenanigans (or of course inceptors, which are just in a different league)

[Kasper_Hawser]

I can't say for the wolves, but DA assault squads can't take plasma guns. They can take plasma pistols, up to 2, and the sergeant can't have a combi-plasma. That's according to my Battlescribe at least. Don't have the codex with me atm, but we don't seem to be able to use assault marines as plasma shock troopers. The idea is nice though, but we will have to make do with vets in a pod for that kind of shenanigans (or of course inceptors, which are just in a different league)

 

Perhaps. Funnily enough my Skyclaws can do what I suggested except they have a stinking BS4+. Yeah, we stuff our neophytes into power armour right off the bat. And even then, codex scouts still shoot better. Gahhhhh. I would say double flamer and combi-flamer works too, but definitely can't use them from reserves due to 9" range.

[domsto]

I kitted mine with 3 Plasma pistols on a 5 man squad.

As said by some of you using them more as a mobile shooting unit rather a assault units seems to be the only way to play them.

But in both my games i came to conclusion that Turn 2 is to late for them to do something.

in Both games i had no good spot to land and hit something i wanted to hit, because as my enemy moved he closed more and more space so i had to deepstrike them in my own backline on Turn 3.

which really sucked.

[sneakybamsen]

If I bring them, I tend to bring 10 guys with two flamers. They start on the table to try to get some flaming done for a change. But they do grab objectives rather well, as Berzul pointed out.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Basically don't use them for assault and they should be find. 12" marines isn't anything to sniff at, especially your objective is solely, well, objective grabbing. Let your tacticals camp in cover while your assault marines do the real capturing.

[Berzul]

Yeah.

 

Definetly not suited for close combat. I once had 10 charge a squad of 3 crisis suits and lost 9/10 first round of combat.

 

I still find them cheap Fast Attack units. Bikes may be faster and tougher, but Assault Marines can Fly, and can climb buildings to reach objectives.

 

As it was said, you gotta think of them as mobile Tactical Squads. Generate Aggro and capture Objectives. Fill up Fast Attack slots. That's what they are best suited for.

 

Id go for a 10 man squad with flamers to hold tough to get objectives, or 2-3 squads of 5 guys full on plasma pistols, as suicide squads against high priority targets.

[Berzul]

Now, a squad of 5 assault marines with 3xPlasma pistols and a Power Weapon will cost 105-106 points.

 

Even two squads is a lot of buck for your bang.

 

There are better ways to get the same effect through plasma bikes, or plasma inceptors.

[BluejayJunior]

Since the new Tactical Reserves beta rules, I've been thinking about using them as a unit to start on the board. Use their mobility to help grab objectives and control board space. With 3 plasma pistols for a little punch. Even then, I'm still not sure if they are worth it. But I want to make them work because I love assault squads. 

[Berzul]

They can work.

Their best use is exactly for that: Objective grabbing.

 

Our Assault Marines are not good in close combat, unless you are going after units that can be easily wounded with S4 AP0 D1 attacks, and cannot deal good hits back at them. I think back to my match on monday against Tyranids where I got into a brawl with about 90 Termagants that wounded me on 5s but died on 3s. 10 Assault Marines with just Chainswords would have worked wonders there, over the Dreadnoughts I actually had to use to kill them, as the termagants would have died by far greater numbers each round under those 21 chainsword attacks, than under the 8 powerfist hits I had at the time.

 

But, those battles are few and far between. Most of the time you will be facing things that have a better combat capability. As soon as your opponent has a T of 4 or higher, a WS of 4+ or lower, and a S of 4 or stronger, your chances of victory in close combat drop dramatically.

 

So, the next questions is specialist weapons.

 

If you are not going to be taking them into combat, then Plasma Pistols and Flamers are weird options as both require short range to be effective. You expose yourself to be charged, with the fact that 2 shots of plasma is not much against a horde of CC warriors, and Flamers are not as reliable as they were in 7ed. Plus, although I think Heavy Flamers are great, regular Flamers are still only S4 AP0 D1, so its not much against a good CC force.

 

Flamers have their place as chaff killers, but you still need far shorter range to get there than with a squad of bikers with Twin Bolters, and I'd say Twin Bolters are far more reliable. Bikes can get there faster, can fire from farther away, and can deal up to 44 bolter shots at max efficiency, over de 2D6 of two flamers... and can even carry flamers themselves so you can have them do both things at once!

 

As much as I love Assault Marines as a concept (and I do keep a 10 man squad with flamers and a sgt with Power Axe and Plasma Pistol on hand for fun non-competitive games), their only true purpose seems to be objectives.

 

Here, they shine. Great speed, deep strike, vertical movement, unhindered by terrain. They can get anywhere and inside any place, and hold their ground with good morale, good toughness and good armor. In this, I think they are unmatched in the current Codex.

 

Their speed may be 2-8 inches shorter than bikes, but "can they do this?!" <climbs a ruin and laughs in high gothic>

 

Just my take on the squad, after trying them a lot.

[solarisqc]

Assault marine are dead for me since 8e because of the vehicule rules.

 

I use Assault Marine in the past to harras vehicule. Leman russ tank for exemple was hard to damage in the front with AV14, but 2-3 plasma pistol shot shooting at the back with AV10 had a realy good chance to cripple the tank.

 

For me the utility of mobile unit in 8e are related with the vehicule rules (same stat on all side and shooting in 360 arc with all weapon). As you can't use fast unit to put pressure on big vehicule with weak rear armor, the role of assault marine have change to anti infantry mostly (you can lock some tank in combat but it's realy hard to do with 5 man unit)

 

I wish i can still use my Assault marine with succes, but i always have better unit that can to the job i need to be done

[robofish7591]

Assault marines are really in a bad place at the moment.  Even with the changes to chainswords they don't put out enough attacks to take on other close combat units.  Plus, blood angels do assault marines much better since they can take two plasma or melta guns, not to mention red thirst makes them better at actually assaulting things.

 

If I were to take assault marines with my dark angels, I would probably run 5 man squads with 3 plasma pistols.  I would use them, like others have said, to go an capture objectives and maybe to go use their mobility to harass backfield units.  If they could get behind somebody and tie up a backfield shooting unit like devastators or something, it could potentially pull some fire off of your other units.

 

If you want them to actually charge stuff, I would say take 10 and a power weapon on the sergeant.  You will need 10 because they need the extra attacks and they are going to take casualties from shooting before they make it into combat.  Luckily, 10 man squads aren't really a problem for dark angels since we are practically immune to morale.  I have to double check the wording in the codex but, I believe that you will get to re roll your 1's to hit when you get to shoot your bolt pistols the turn after you charged, since you didn't move in the previous movement phase, please correct me if I have that wrong though since I don't have my codex with me and can't check the wording at the moment.

[march10k]

As others have said, they're useful mainly for mobility.  if you're actually playing with those tactical objective cards, then they start to do really well, either deepstriking on top of that number 5 objective over in the quiet corner when it would take another unit a turn or three to get over there, or just turboing around, capping those objectives as they pop up.  Also good for those end-game cards, like "get huge points for having THREE units achieve linebreaker," since they don't have to abandon other priorities and spend 2-3 turns rushing across the table. 

[Lion's Crown]

I keep them for counter attack and they work well.

My squad of 5 cost 122 pts, have 1 thunder hammer on the sergeant and 1 eviscarator, that's all I need to threaten or finish vehicles. I can also jump behind an ennemy unit and charge a character.

 

They are versatile enough to give pause to your opponent and funny enough, can attack flyers.

 

I like to have them as an option even if I rarely use them.

[JeffJedi]

I use them to finish off depleted enemy squads. There is always some stragglers that survive shooting. The key is to overwhelm and concentrate many of your units on few of the enemy units.