My personal milestones of maturity in 40K and the future

[Kasper_Hawser]

Just felt like sharing my journey in 40K since I very depressingly "quit the game for a spell" after being somewhat traumatised towards the end of 7th edition. Even somewhere in middle of 8th edition when about half of the armies got their codexes and the Index Imperium armies began to feel really short, I endeavoured to slowly train myself properly in the ways of 40K rather than just jumping into games with a fun but ultimately weak list against opponents who were in reality, SUPER COMPETITIVE players who somehow played with me even though in hindsight, there was no way I could beat them in terms of toys.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332442-tired-young-wolf/?hl=+tired%20+young%20+wolf

 

These are the guys who can splurge on Forgeworld, and still want to fight me even though they know I have not bought any forgeworld units.

 

Not only that, I played mono-codex as well. In an age where super friends existed. This continued to apply even in 8th edition. 

 

So in the past 8 months I believe, a friend of mine who I consider mildly competitive, took me under his wing and began to instruct me on how to, for lack of better word, win no matter what the situation when playing 40K. I can't remember all his lessons now, but roughtly it was like this:

 

1) What I love about my army - This was especially important and drew me back into thinking about which units I love, which is the humble Grey Hunter. And so he helped me rediscover what was special about them gamewise. Which i think we all know, GH are arguably better quality tactical marines with their free chainswords and extra special weapons. All that is missing is chapter tactics.

 

2) After truly understanding the power and abilities of my Grey Hunters, next was list building. He encouraged me to make my lists based on Grey Hunter. And initially, I just filled 2000 points filled with full squads of Grey Hunters and accompanying Wolf Lords, Battle leaders, Rune Priests and Rhinos. You know, farily traditional list except with full squads.

 

3) Then came one of the most important lessons: The GENERAL PLAN. What and how am i to use my Grey Hunters. As mentioned, earlier in 1, I examined the Grey Hunter and concluded it was in fact a better quality tactical. Yet as we all know, tacticals are jack of all trades, master of none. Which means the Grey Hutnters are BETTER jack of all trades, but also master of none. It can do everything except long range, but it can do none of them well. But nvm, I view this as a strength now.

 

Long story cut short, my general plan was always objective grabbing, tying up opponents and ultimately survive the game to Turn 5-6 with the critical objetives or points. I NEVER played with assault in mind.

 

4) Gaining XP or Facing opponents - so after the list building exercises, it was time to put theory hammer into practice. But first I had to accept that I wasn't ready to play full opponent strategems yet. So for the next 10 games or so, I did that, only played with those who agreed to only use the BRB strategem. Even when CA came out, I still  asked for the limitation. Warlord traits and relics I still allowed as generally, most of them weren't game breaking or "cheesy.

 

The only exception I took was the Standard of Emperor Ascendant. Until now, I feel it is ridiculously OP, even if the guy is an assault army. But mainly it boosted Hellblasters up the wazoo in my opinion, especially when combined with Raven Guard.

 

this paid off a lot of dividends, as in the end, I could finally PINPOINT exactly what i did wrong in the games I lost, or what I did right in games I won. Actually happens bother ways as well, like in my lost games, what did I do right, and similarly what i did wrong in games I won. My strategy became more consistent, my general plan solidified in what to do with my mass of grey hunters. 

 

And more importantly, even against the competitive lists, the game felt more even without strategems mucking up the game plan.

 

5) Trying new ideas - so now that my general plan was solidified and my faith in GH cemented, now was the time to try new ideas. Long story cut short

 

    a) Try Long Fangs - SUCCESS! Now I never leave home without 2 minimum, and they basically supplemented by GH beautifully, also giving me faith in hand held heavy weaponry.

    b) try assault elements - Big failure however. I tried Wulfen and Blood Claws combination, even once took out my Thunderwolves. Somehow, I found they didn't jive with my general plan, which was playing objectives. And even when I tried to kit them out for murder, I just couldn't reliably get the important charges out, or they were easily countered.

 

At this stage, strategem restrictions still applied, but in the end, I fell in love with the long fangs. I still love predators but now I've found a sweetspot for Long Fangs in my lists.

 

6) Taking off the training wheels ..... but still on the training course - Basically this is where I'm at now. Facing fully updated codexes with everything in it allowed, EXCEPT Lord of Wars like Magnus, Mortarion, Lord of Skulls and of course, Granddaddy papa smurf.

 

As expected, I still lost mostly, but I was still happy because I really gave them a run for their money and was no longer "SMASHED". And more importantly, I was able to indentify WHY I lost. Like when I faced Eldar with a lot of aspect warriors, my main mistake was not bubble wrapping my predator enough from being tied up in a charge.

 

That being said, Spam was still the problem which I often had little counter to, but at least I can honestly say it was a scissor paper rock loss in terms of list. Like facing 9 Dreadnoughts with my mass Grey Hunter list, all with Lascannons and missile launchers. and just to troll me, some scouts to push me back.

 

Point is, I was better able to take my losses and laugh off almost every game, win or lose now. 

 

This culminated in me facing my friend's competitive list (the same friend who was mentoring me), the one I mentioned back in March.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344808-really-tired-of-seeing-flying-golden-bananas-everywhere/page-2

 

And ultimately, I walked away happy and satified that I survived till Turn 4 before conceding. 

 

So what is my next step to build up my game? In my mind I still have a few phobias that i need to get over with:

 

1) Lord of Wars of almost any variety, but generally the old Superheavies and gargantuan creatures. I need to see if what I'm currently using has a chance.

 

2) Facing melee hordes who can manage 1st turn charges aka Tyranids, Blood Angels and potentially Orks. despite the Beta rules, I'm going to pretend they don't exist when I eventually play such an army, as I want to EXPERIENCE a first turn charge, and apply my lessons above to this.

 

as of last weekend, I did a kiddie step with both: meaning i faced an Ork army twice. But first time it didn't have any weirdboyz in it, the second time, it had 2 Morkanauts and a Meka dread which was my first exposure in 8th to something with 18 wounds. But thankfully, I not only survived but won against both, using all I knew to avoid both armies until it was time to charge out.

 

So right now, I still need to let go off the training wheels to face a proper first turn charge army. But as of this Sunday, I'm going to face the greatest commander in the Imperium for the first time.

 

Yes I'm going to face my mentor. Which i forgot to mention is an Ultramarine player, despite using a IG list in cometition. with Granddaddy smurf.

 

and I'm going to hold my head up high as I face him, before and after. He is using a razorback list as well, hopefully I'll be able to avoid or minimise most of his firepower.

 

If your wondering what feedback I want from you guys, it's actually not how to face Guilliman.

 

Apart from hordes and super monsters/LOWs, what else should I try fight so that eventually I can face ANY army in 40K? What other milestone of maturity should I consider?

[Bulwyf]

If you want to see how flexible your lists are, try to keep fighting armies that are not just pure gun line lists. Dark Eldar can be frustrating to play against because of their movement and guns to go with some really good melee units. Have you went up against Death Guard yet with their  mortal wounds from almost everywhere stuff yet?

[PeteySödes]

Biggest advice i can think of is regardless of list makeup don't concede. Even if you get mostly blown off the board early. Start recognizing the paths to victory step by step. Adjust as needed but don't throw in the towel, play it out.

 

You can learn a ton that way and to be honest thats kind of how marines seem to play for me lately. Grim situations but pulling out wins in the end.

[Gemini]

On the whole, I've got nothing strong to suggest. Taking your mentor out for dinner a few times because what they've given you is absolutely PRICELESS would be the best advice I could give you. Other than that...

 

It's very old now but there was a website that posted an 'Achievement Unlocked' list for Space Wolves back in 5th edition. It was CHOCK FULL of small challenges to accomplish such as:

The Saga Begins - Win a game of Warhammer 40k with Codex: Space Wolves

Blood Claw - Win 5 games of Warhammer 40k with Codex: Space Wolves

 

There Are No Books On Fenris - Win a game of Warhammer 40k using Codex: Space Wolves against Codex: Space Marines

Bark At The Moon - Use Ragnar Blackmane and a squad of Blood Claws to inflict more attacks than you and your opponent have dice for

 

Some were true martial challenges, some were meant to stretch your ability to use certain units, others were just fun, some are practically impossible. Consider something like this, micro-challenges for yourself. I don't generally tell the other guy I'm doing one of these, it's a personal thing for me, but it might add some tools and tactics to your skillset. 

[Ratherdashing]

I heartily approve of setting personal goals within a game to lessen the sting of losing with an underpowered book. Me and my friend play casually (he foot guard and I space wolves with almost exclusively regular Marines) but the only way we can play anyone but each other is to play in a local tournament. We enter the tournament with no assumption that we will do well, and I see the entry fee as a payment for a fun day of gaming (since there's no way I'll win it back).

 

I try not to go into any match assuming I will lose, but when I realize it's going to happen I always play the game out and try to pick a couple manageable objectives. Sometimes it's something like playing to the objectives even if there won't be enough turns to win. Or something like, kill the baneblade.

 

Last tournament, I played against a list that was one Stompa and half a dozen Lifta wagons that could deal auto mortal wounds from extreme range and couldn't be charged lest you get overwatched by said auto mortal wounds.

 

In the first turn my long fangs were killed and thus I lost any hope of fighting the wagons (my other AT was melta hunters and the tanks were too far apart for me to chase them all down). So I decided I would kill the Stompa and call it a night. But partway through the game me and my opponent realized something. Stompas have a degrading move stat. So I made it my goal to finish off the Stompa with Jaws of the World Wolf. And my opponent was cheering me on the whole time, just for the imagery of a giant mech getting pulled into a crevace. We even played an extra turn at the end to get it to happen.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I also do the personal goals when things are looking dire. On of my more regular opponents is a rogue trader vet with most armies at his disposal and with all that experience he often handily crushes me. But going in I try to have goals and I always asks where he thinks I messed up so I can do better next time. Im definitely in the always finish the game mode vut with the caviat that if concedong will get a second game in then i will concede and try again.

[Kasper_Hawser]

@ FearPetey- I like your moxie but sometimes when the writing is clearly on the wall by Turn 4, better to graciously concede instead of rage quitting.

 

@ Bulwyf - Yeah need to fight more unusual or unorthodox armies, which usually means Xenos and Daemons. Then will truly see how flexible I am in face of diverse non marine armies.

 

@ Gemini - I think you refering to this website.

 

http://wolvesforthewolfgod.blogspot.my/2011/12/space-wolves-achievements.html

 

You know what? I think I'll try make an updated list for myself and share in this forum.

 

thanks guys. sorry for my long post, I realise it is too long but what the heck? If you read the post it's an achievement for you.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Went through the achievements, roughly half of it is inapplicable, mainly the specific mission types. Some others involving the units former abilities, like Arjac knocking a unit to initiative 1 along with Bjorn no longer becoming an objective upon destruction, may need to change.

 

In any case, achievements aren't really milestones, just something you managed to "do". My milestones I rather think of as leveling up.  Which I feel the next stage is fighting melee hordes or first turn charges.

[Gemini]

In your own way you're already doing it. You decided to take lots of Grey Hunters and then worked to make them successful.

 

As I said, it wasn't a particularly strong suggestion because I think you're in an amazing place with learning your army, yourself and the game in general right now. 

That was the best suggestion I had. 

 

DO take your friend out to dinner though...

[PeteySödes]

Yea i mean, never rage quit obviously and it good youre setting personal style goals. What i really meant though is actually winning games at the 11th hour. Getting pummeled in the first two turns make most players even in a tournament setting both lazy and prone to bloodlust. 

 

Learning to adapt your path to victory without doing something for the hell of it (dumb hero plays) has gotten me a ton of wins in 8th.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Yea i mean, never rage quit obviously and it good youre setting personal style goals. What i really meant though is actually winning games at the 11th hour. Getting pummeled in the first two turns make most players even in a tournament setting both lazy and prone to bloodlust. 

 

Learning to adapt your path to victory without doing something for the hell of it (dumb hero plays) has gotten me a ton of wins in 8th.

 

I hear you and noted your advice. As much as I can, play till the end unless it really isn't worth playing anymore i.e. about to be tabled by 3.5 turns, or the other guy just isn't fun anymore and becomes "That guy".

 

@ Gemini - depending on outcome of my game later, where I'll be facing Guilliman, i'll be taking him to dinner. Wish he was a her but nobody is perfect. :P

 

Fully expect to lose, but at least I'll have a taste of battling primarchs before Russ comes along.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Brothers, I'm very happy to report a new achievement, a victory against an army led by the 13th son himself, lord Guilliman of the Ultramarines. It was a grueling battle that ended with Bjorn burning him with promethium, and when he got up from that, Bjorn smacked him down for good with his Plasma cannon.

 

Goes to show Bjorn's waking hours experience in past 10K years, trumps Guilliman's special primarch powers.

 

Will post more details later. Actually i won mainly by objectives but by the time I blasted Guilliman off, my army was still quite strong and Bjorn was still full health. He had six twin lascannon razorbacks, but i had destroyed 3, and still had 2 razorbacks to hide objectives, while I still had most of my MSUs intact, with one contesting his backfield for linebreaker, and potentially destroying his objective for D3 victory points. this was the new Chapter approved eternal war mission Scorched earth.

 

Dice rolls went both ways, like Long Fangs lascannon and missiles kept rolling ones for damage when firing at Guilliman even after CP, but in return,one of my Razorbacks saved against 3 lascannon shots on 6+, not even with Stormcaller active.

[Gemini]

"There Are No Books On Fenris" :D