Lemondish Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Intercessors are 18 pts, and all their guns took a 1 pt premium hike for the SIA. So if boltguns are free, its 3 pt difference between Intercessor & bolt rifle vs Veteran & boltgun. That seems low, no? I mean normal marines have some sweet options still (frag cannons & stormshields) but 3 points extra for these intercessors seems like a real good deal in my opinion. It is, but you end up shackled to the Repulsor if you want a transport (isn't so bad) and can't bring much in the way of melee power in those kill teams. They both seem like they have their uses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Veterans being 16 pts is really sad. I mentioned it before that this precise change (simply bringing it down to just Sternguard) is the laziest thing they could do, and still doesn't "fix" Veterans. From what we can see, this is now indeed Primawatch. I think it's pretty clear now that they did not bother changing any rules and they took the lazy way out. Our "new" things contain: 1) Primaris with same rules and issues as Veterans (but at a much better point per wound) 2) Gave us back Mission Tactics from 7th 3) Lowered points to SM levels, but still shackled by them. Unless they changed transport options for regular KTs (and it doesn't seem like they did), they're still trash. Great job, GW team. Must've taken you guys hours to think of these new and exciting changes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Basic marines still have the juicy loadout. Keep in mind we have no idea what happened cost wise to a Frag Cannon.... or ruleswise to an IHB. Razorbacks are still good... Rhino's are cheap, the Corvus gets fixed and there's still a lot of reasons to take marines. Even the sarge Xeno blades, and Stormshields too. I mean last night as I'm list bashing.... really the 'new' Primaris Troop squad is just a rehash of the old bonuses from mixed squads. Yes it makes Intercessors more appealing than ever, but the rest? not so sure. I always liked tanking with Termies, Frag Cannons, Stormshield Vets, +1 Attack, hit and run shooty squads. I think if costs came down on the gear, then this stuff still has a place in future lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Here is how I'm looking at it:The basic Veteran dropped in pts, so if you're putting a boltgun on him, sure it's not as good as an Intercessor with a bolt rifle. However, they are at least a valid close combat squad option, and can carry the heavy weapons which Primaris don't get, such as the Frag Cannon.Effectively, Frag cannons are now 8 pts cheaper than they were before. That's not insane, that's really nice.I'm going to be keen to see the price parity between Intercessors w/ stalker rifles vs Vets with stalker boltguns. I am hoping that they are close to par. They said on stream, Frag cannons drop to 25 pts each. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir_Einarsson Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Primaris don’t have many options that normal marines have. And as i don’t play deathwatch yet, some deathwatch players are swing that you don’t have cheap durable troops. Ów intercessors are answer for This. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Options don't matter if they're all overcosted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Options don't matter if they're all overcosted. What is overcosted? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Basic marines still have the juicy loadout. Keep in mind we have no idea what happened cost wise to a Frag Cannon.... or ruleswise to an IHB. Razorbacks are still good... Rhino's are cheap, the Corvus gets fixed and there's still a lot of reasons to take marines. Even the sarge Xeno blades, and Stormshields too. I mean last night as I'm list bashing.... really the 'new' Primaris Troop squad is just a rehash of the old bonuses from mixed squads. Yes it makes Intercessors more appealing than ever, but the rest? not so sure. I always liked tanking with Termies, Frag Cannons, Stormshield Vets, +1 Attack, hit and run shooty squads. I think if costs came down on the gear, then this stuff still has a place in future lists. Sounded like 25 points for the Frag Cannon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Confirmed for 25 pts for the frag cannon from their stream. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikev Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 They seem to be taking a very long time getting the battle report going. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I hope something's wrong with the equipment and not the people involved. (Their feed can be flaky) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I know...like, come on Warhammer TV, we're all waiting here for you to demonstrate how awesome the Deathwatch are in a cinematic thematic narrative game against bugs! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 25 points seems like the correct price, the same as a lascannon and missile launcher. Even if I think a missile launcher should drop to 22 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1) Primaris with same rules and issues as Veterans (but at a much better point per wound) What are those issues? Transport? Primaris have had that issue all along, and as such have staked their claim on foot by holding objectives and reaching out at range rather than being delivered anywhere, which they can be, if you like having a pseudo-battle tank run as a transport. Depending on how any points changes shake out for the blackstar, I don't see how that as an exclusive transport isn't sufficient. It's one of the most iconic DW models. They did mention they thought it was cheap, so I hope that means it either gained some rules or dropped some points. We'll see, though! 2) Gave us back Mission Tactics from 7th I'm not quite sure why that's a bad thing. Were you expecting something completely new? Because that was unlikely to happen given how these Codex releases have been going. 3) Lowered points to SM levels, but still shackled by them. I think I get what you mean here, but can you elaborate? Shackled by those points values, you mean? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Options don't matter if they're all overcosted. What is overcosted? Overcosted compared to Primaris equivalents, as that's what being discussed. "Primaris have no options" doesn't mean much when they do everything better with the equipment they have compared to the vast options Veterans have (most of which won't ever be used anyways). For 3-4 points more, you get additional wound and range. This applies to most long or mid-range firebase weapons. Assuming FC did not get any changes to rules outside of a 5 pt drop, their usefulness to point cost is rivaled by Aggressors easily. Mixed KTs are overcosted in lieu of their need for tranports, and if they did not fix transports. The stream heavily suggested that Corvus have not been changed (but not confirmed). Primaris KTs at least fixed this slightly with Aggressors. The only thing Veterans may do better is assault, but that's not their best use to begin with. They goated us with Primaris. Veterans being better at anything seems like it will be the exception, and Primaris outclass them in the majority of roles. There will still be a place for Veterans, but in a severely reduced manner if we go by effectiveness. What really irks me is the constant assurance that this will not be "Primawatch", when Veterans essentially got nothing except some token point reductions. If they changed their rules, it would've been revealed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikev Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 It's live! And standard Veterans are featuring in the report. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 It's live! And standard Veterans are featuring in the report. They also kind of mentioned that their loadouts aren't the best, largely because it's the army used to take pretty pictures lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrwaud Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Uuuugh.... although I'm thankful for the point drop on vets and frag cannons watching the Twitch stream is/was painful... if the fellow summarizing the rules and playing them is the one who "wrote" those rules (Simon Grant, and he is the writer) then my confidence in all our issues being addressed is not high considering he seems to have no memory of the units or their rules. Oh well, fingers crossed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikev Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 It's live! And standard Veterans are featuring in the report. They also kind of mentioned that their loadouts aren't the best, largely because it's the army used to take pretty pictures lol The pretty models where the hawk on the Killteam Cassius biker just broke off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I'm annoyed with Simon's play...he's not optimizing the Watch Master to empower his dreadnoughts to re-roll hits. Disappointing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrinNfool Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 If they detached SIA cost from the model and put it on the weapon that a step in the right direction, Frag dropping to 25 is nice too, Almost every DW Squad I field dropped a minimum 19 points, admittedly more would be better but it eases a bit of the points burden in equipping your squads how you want. Wish they said something about the infernus, shotguns and hvy thunder hammer but eh we'll see what we get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUbikator Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Options don't matter if they're all overcosted. What is overcosted? Overcosted compared to Primaris equivalents, as that's what being discussed. "Primaris have no options" doesn't mean much when they do everything better with the equipment they have compared to the vast options Veterans have (most of which won't ever be used anyways). For 3-4 points more, you get additional wound and range. This applies to most long or mid-range firebase weapons. Assuming FC did not get any changes to rules outside of a 5 pt drop, their usefulness to point cost is rivaled by Aggressors easily. Mixed KTs are overcosted in lieu of their need for tranports, and if they did not fix transports. The stream heavily suggested that Corvus have not been changed (but not confirmed). Primaris KTs at least fixed this slightly with Aggressors. The only thing Veterans may do better is assault, but that's not their best use to begin with. They goated us with Primaris. Veterans being better at anything seems like it will be the exception, and Primaris outclass them in the majority of roles. There will still be a place for Veterans, but in a severely reduced manner if we go by effectiveness. What really irks me is the constant assurance that this will not be "Primawatch", when Veterans essentially got nothing except some token point reductions. If they changed their rules, it would've been revealed. I've been thinking about it and I disagree. Vets are still better, they've got more options, deal more dmg up close (both in CQC and in shooting) the only thing the primaris are sort good at is mid-range shooting but that's not much - they can't hide in melee (because most often they'll be too far), doesn't have access to inv saves, and 2+ save. The bonuses given by different primaris models are not that useful, terror troops are useless against xenos, falling back and shooting is nice, but there are no options to move fast around the table with interceptor in a squad (if I remember correctly interceptors can't ride inside repulsor or take 3 spaces?). Footslogging is just bad because at the end of the day these are just T4 models with 3+ save and a lot of stuff deals 2 or D3 dmg in the game. Aggressors want to be up close, but intercessors don't really. It just doesn't work. Vets are still better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_149 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Points wise the reduction is nice. My 6 man unit with Sgt bolter/psword, boltgun & chains word, 2 X bolters & stormshield, 2 X frag cannon was 188pts but is now 160pts (based on rumours?). I have two of those units so 56 PTS saved Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 With the ongoing dreadnought sale at FW, I'm wondering if a TwinHB contemptor might be worth the purchase (I love the IF contemptor); can't help but wonder if it would benefit from SIA too... +Edit: I don't have a copy of the FW Index, so have no idea how/if it would interacts with C:DW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 My killer kill team (4 frag, 4SS+boltgun, 2termies) just dropped from 368 to 324.....nice! Plus I expect termies to go on 26pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/12/#findComment-5072747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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