dtse Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Hey guys. Darren here from CanHammer. Full video will follow in the next week up on the channel debriefing CanHammer Team Tournament, our big annual team event. This year we had 110 players, 5 man teams. We play full ETC, and it is PRE-FAQ since faq literally came out week before and would have invalidated 90% of the lsits lol. It is very competitive, but super friendly. But bring unoptimized lists and you will get a beat down. Our team went without being too serious. We each brought a strong list, but we didnt tailor our team to meta or anything. We played hard and actually were playing for 5th place on the final round (but lost and came in 10th). I present to you my learnings and thoughts from this big event. Although its a team event, the individual games can still be had on their own merits. I could have brought a super list, but decided to take a mostly custodes list and see how it would do in the super pre-faq competitive meta. I came away 2 and 3, with one super super close game. 2 losses were basically auto-loss matchups unfortunately, so not likely helpful, but i present it to you anyway in case a kernel of learning can be had. My list (ETC restrictions: no duplicate detachments, no Forgeworld) Imperium Battallion: COmmander - warlord - grand strategist, kurov's aquila commander infantry x3 callidus assassin (who sucked all day tbh) Custodes Patrol captain on bike 4 man custodian guard unit 6 man biker unit (all hurricanes) Custodes Supreme Command Biker captain x3 4 man allarus unit - axes Game 1: vs Blood Angels Opponents list (roughly) captain smash***cker lieutenant sanguinary ancient with FNP banner sanguinor 6 man deathcompany unit - chainswords 7-8 sanguinary guard - all swords 2 large vanguard vet units with jump packs, few claws, 2 hammers, rest swords 3 intercessor units with grenade thingy 2 5-man hellblaster with 30" rapid fire version Good matchup for me. I have played against a lot of blood angels, i know all their tricks, and i can kill infantry. Sanguinary guard are only thing that kill me, and second were hellblasters. Big LOS blocking in middle of table that i basically used to nullify hellblasters. PLayed very conservative, waiting for sanguinary guard to drop. Prepared for the stooping dive! I did drop my allarus into his backfield after he left me a gap, killed a hallblaster unit. He took the bait and dropped his sanguinary guard to fight them, they failed 3d6 charge, but all the shooting and vanguard vets and captain smasher killed them off. But it was my key. I shot forward with my bikes and captains and smashed into his lines, wiping out many units in one round. Rest of the game was done. I think he made a mistake by committing his sanguinary guard, but i was ready for the 3d6 charge and stooping dive, so likely end result would have been the same. 20-0 tabling for me. If you play blood angels, you gotta screen, stay at least 9" from your own screen, and be ready to stooping dive. Be patient, daniel-son, don't spam your load too early. wait for those guard. Deploy conservatively, chose to go second. Game 2 vs Nurgle Opponents List: 3 plagueburst Crawlers some cultists some poxwalkers 5 bloat drones (4 flamers, 1 lawnmower) 3 nurgle demon princes Bad matchup for me. Custodes don't have a lot of ways of dealing with a whole army of T7-T8 characters and tanks, everything have 5+ FNP. Again i deployed conservative, out of drone flamer range. He got a bit lucky first turn and killed 2 bikers with indirect fire (definitely was above average). I moved up turn one and half killed 2 of the drones in shooting and combat, taking 1 casualty. With half dead, the flamers lose strength and so wounding on 5s makes them much less effective. My allarus failed charge, but got in the next turn and engaged hi PBCs, eventually destroying 2 of them before demon princes wiped them out. It was a mission where theres only 2 random objectives left to score endgame, and it ended up that i had a callidus on one, deep in his zone, and a captain in the middle, holding otherone 1" away from a demon prince. If game ended on 5, it was a tie actually, with me having 2 models left, but it went onto 6. the callidus got punked by 2 demon princes, but my 3+ invlun captain was a beast! He denied 1 smite with stratagem, then rolled box cars to save 2 damage smite from second prince. Then he survived plagueburst crawler shooting. Then the demon prince came in, rolled his 7 attacks, wounds 6 times or something, and he bossed all his 3 ups. So ended up avoiding a tabling and turning into a 15-5 loss (which matters in team format). Great game, super tight, just tried to keep to the maelstroms for points, and half damaging all drones made them more manageable. Damn nurgle, even when you kill them they can auto explode lol Game 3 vs triple super heavy Opponents list: 4 heavy bolter teams bunches of guardsmen stormlord, no sponsons 2 shadowswords, 2 sponsons each Another auto-loss matchup. Opponent got to pick table and picked one with literally no LOS blocking terrain. Only survived to turn 4 because i deepstruck everything and stayed off til turn 3 lol. 20-0 loss. Did take 8 wounds off a shadowsword with hurricane bolters haha. Game 4 vs Admech Opponents list dominus tech priest vanguards melee electropriests shooting electropriests breacher unit 3 onagers 3 chicken walkers - melee version greyfax big unit of crusaders big unit of arcoflagellants rhino Interest list, and super fun game. I deployed to go first, as my chance lay in hitting his lines asap. with 3 dunecrawlers, i wouldn't last long. I also was ready to stooping dive anything that hit my guardsmen. He hit my guardsmen turn 1 with melee electroprists just outside stooping dive. He needed to kill all 10 to get a gamelong 3+ invuln (which would have made them very hard to deal with), but lost 2 in overwatch and only killed 9! I lost the last to morale, but that doesnt give him his invuln. One captain mopped up that unit next turn with hurricane bolters. He also charged my scout scren turn 1 with arcoflaggelants. I had lost 3 bikers to dunecrawlers that turn, so stooping dived in and used Avenge the Fallen for 21 attacks from 3 bikers. Also gave me free 10" movement on the charge, and after wiping his flagellants, moved another 3" closer. So my turn 1, im in his face, 4" away from his gunline. My allarus join the fray, and my 4 man unit (its table quarters deployment so can hit him easily). I charged in and basically just tied up and killed everything for 3-4 turns. 20-0 for me. I'm never sure in these matchups whether to play conservative or not, but he could shoot me either way, and my only chance lay in getting into his lines fast. Taking out 3 of my bikers turn 1 shooting vindicated my choice to push forward. He did make a critical error charging my scouts, allowing me to stooping dive. Game 5 - oblit spam nurgle tree Opponents list some brimstones 40 cultists 3 units nurglings 18 obliterators nurgle tree abaddon nurgle herald tzeentch herald Another tough game for me. Obliterators just wreck custodes, and with a 0+ armour save, being able to fall back and shoot, and advance and shoot, with rerolls and veterans of the long war, its basically an autoloss. I screened out pretty good and pushed his tree right back when it dropped turn 2, but range 24" with the dawn of war deployment meant nowhere to hide. I managed to keep it close to turn 5 and would have gotten some points if it ended, but it went on and we were playing ETC mission 6 which snowballs with progressive maelstrom, so 20-0 loss with just commander on table in the far corner at the end of the game. COncussion grenades was nice for denying overwatch on the obliterators. Overall, pretty good performance for custodes. Although i was "setup" with bad matchups, oviously those will happen too in singles tournament. Probably more often. Custodes are really a good army, but has several bad matchups in the current competitive meta, and if you face those, you lose hard. If you don't though, you have so much resilience you can usually survive. In today's horde heavy meta, would definitely stick with hurricanes on all my bikes. MVP for the tournament was the 3+ invuln captain. beast. 2nd MVP would actually be allarus. Everytime I wanna drop them, they do something amazing. And this tournament I actually managed to use tanglefoot a couple of times to good effect, concussion 3-4 times to good effect, and the -1 AP extra to good effect. And if nothing else, people are scared of them, and they generally require a whole armies devotion to remove. Moving forward now post-FAQ is the big question. Also switchint to ITC format, so a new list is going to emerg currently brewing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Well it looks like you had a fun showing. I think AdMech is severely overrated without the mono-build everyone uses. And yes, Oblits have been such a pain to me... I can't stand it. This is in part I wanted Greyfax... Warptime is diminished with FAQ, but Prescienced Oblits with Cacaphony are essentially going to smoke Custodes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/#findComment-5068637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I am kind of surprised you lost to Nurgle but 3 DP is always tough they are such a good unit. Too bad you had to play against the IG SH army - I am sure that was no fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/#findComment-5068780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtse Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Yea no fun lol. Against the nurgle literally if game ended it was a tie. It went on so it became small loss. Thems the rolls! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/#findComment-5068878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yea no fun lol. Against the nurgle literally if game ended it was a tie. It went on so it became small loss. Thems the rolls! So for the heck of it, what would you say you’d change in your list considering your experiences there? I realize some things are just not feasible...like a super heavy loaded guard list. But otherwise? One thing I experimented with was Greyfax. I wonder how much better your Nurgle experience would have been for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/#findComment-5068978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtse Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 We had to submit lists a month before so already I had things I wanted to change in that month but couldn’t lol. And now with faq maybe some of that is moot. I’ll be posting a thread soon on my ITC format post faq list ideas. Specificallly is take less captains, maybe 1-2 less and take more bikers. Drop the callidus and take a culexus (remember this is Pre FAQ). Replace a commander with a Primaris psyker. Replace the scouts with guardsmen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/#findComment-5068996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I am curious as to how would you gear your troop choice custodes in a primarily custode force? Would you also gear them differently in a soup? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/#findComment-5073033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtse Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 My latest list doesn’t run any guardians at this time. But if I run 3x3 it’s all spears. I’ll only use shield on 1-2 guys if I have a bigger unit of at least 6guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346768-learnings-from-chtt/#findComment-5073402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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