Legacy of Betrayal: Chaos Superheavies?

[Stofficus]

Hello all,

 

I have somewhat of a dilemma, and I'm looking to beseech you good traitors, heretics and daemonspoor. 

 

I have largely settled on using the 40k Chaos rules to represent my 30k loyalist Emperor's Children force - if nothing else it'd force me to up my conversion skills to make non-gribbly versions of various Chaos units. Also noise marines, great fun. 

 

What I'm looking to do, however, long term is add some big centerpiece to my force. A Baneblade was something like my 5th purchase ever for 40k, which still serves my Death Korps faithfully, and I would like nothing more than to use its Astartes brother - the Fellblade. 

 

The problem is the bloody fellblade is 917 points, for what is effectively a BS3 Baneblade with some more lascannons, and a higher S and better AP main gun, but with fewer shots. 

 

Thus, here comes my query: have any of you had any luck making use of the various Legion superheavies in 40k? As I see it, we've got the following to play with: 

 

Fellblade: slightly meaner Baneblade for almost twice the price. 

 

Falchion: twice the firepower of the Shadowsword for basically twice the price

 

Mastodon: transport all the things to where you need them, basically 100% guaranteed against anything that isn't Eldar, but do mind the tendency to eat its occupants, for the low-low price of over half your points. 

 

Cerberus: Odd mechanics, but alright anti-tank platform. Note: "alright" shouldn't describe a 650 point unit. 

 

Spartan: A better land raider. No caveat; twice the transport, almost twice the wounds, twice the anti-tank firepower, has the superheavy shooting from combat bonuses, sometimes eats its occupants, only ~110 points more than a land raider. 

 

Typhon: It may be the most undercosted unit in 30k, but its present 40k iteration doesn`t inspire abject terror. A bigger, angrier Vindicator; has 2D6 shots, a flat 3 damage rather than D6, doesn`t get extra shots like Vindis based on unit size. The unit it`s built upon isn`t great at 125 points, and this bad boy is 700. 

 

Honestly, it looks pretty grim to me aside from the Spartan being a decent choice, just hamstrung by Chaos`s lack of decent assault units, unless you`re Khorne, as `zerkers aren`t awful, so it would be hard to make truly maximal use out of, aside from maybe some surprise Slaaneshi double-shooting plasma havoc shenanagins or whatnot. 

 

TL:DR: Can anyone think of a way to make a Fellblade work in an army? More generally, has anyone had any luck with any of the 30k Superheavies in 40k?

[hushrong]

I had wanted the Cerberus once upon a time but the points price hike killed it. I’m rusty on the rules but I fancied it for a mean tank/Titan killer. However, I had been eyeballing a titan nowadays.

 

I’m interested in seeing if anyone has some experience with using any of these myself.

[Lhorke The First]

I've had success using a Spartan to deliver Khârn and a horde of berzerkers right into an opposing player's gunline. The extra durability and firepower that it has over the land raider is highly useful. Its even better now with the FAQ changes. However, like any superheavy, it draws a lot fire. I usually have to run at least two other vehicles (rhinos or predators) to split my opponent's fire priorities.

[hushrong]

Lhorke, I still daydream about building a 'berzerkers in Land Raider' army with Khârn in a Spartan. Makes the mouth drool thinking about it.

[Ishagu]

Spartan, without any shadow of a doubt.

It's a great unit, can be boosted significantly by readily available psychic powers, and is pretty damaging in terms of firepower.

 

The other LoW options aren't worthwhile currently.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Spartan, without any shadow of a doubt.

It's a great unit, can be boosted significantly by readily available psychic powers, and is pretty damaging in terms of firepower.

 

The other LoW options aren't worthwhile currently.

The Typhon has shown some effectiveness, but it requires an "El Presidente" setup where it consumes all of the buffs for your entire army and demands constant mothering. Toughness 9 is not to be underestimated, but unfortunately, a lot of work is required to keep it up and functioning.

 

Spartan would be the best right now after its update with Daemonic Machine Spirit.

 

OP-Have you considered big aircraft instead? The Storm Eagle can hit pretty hard and still deliver 20 models where you need them. The Fire Raptor got a price hike, but is still nasty.

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

As others have said, the Spartan is very good. I build pretty much all of my lists around it.

[Stofficus]

As others have said, the Spartan is very good. I build pretty much all of my lists around it.

 

The question is what's worth putting in it?

 

It's got good AT, quite survivable, but fundamentally it's about delivering a threat into the heart of the enemy force, and, well Chosen and Terminators suck compared to most other things imaginable for assault purposes. Do I just fill it with special weapon havocs and form a dakka ball that orks would envy?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Chosen don't suck so much anymore if they have the Spartan's protection on the way in.

 

They can ALL take a Melee weapon now, per the FAQ.

 

And why do Terminators suck for Assault? I've personally found that if they get there and have either Psyker or Lord support, they do fine. The main problem seems to be getting them in.

 

You might want to think about Slaanesh Possessed, especially if you have Daemons too.

 

Though I must say, a "Plasma Hell" Spartan sounds good with 3 squads of Havocs, each with 4 Plasmas and a Combi-Plas, then add a Lord to reroll 1's.

[Stofficus]

My main complete with termies has to do with their low volume of attacks for their price. 2W goes a lot further in assault, it's true, as multi-damage weapons are much more rare there, but my experience has been of a 10 man termie squad, even with delightful agonies for a 5+ FNP, I'm lucky to see 2 models survive a turn of shooting.

 

But then I fight a lot of Eldar. 

 

No one survives Eldar. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

My main complete with termies has to do with their low volume of attacks for their price. 2W goes a lot further in assault, it's true, as multi-damage weapons are much more rare there, but my experience has been of a 10 man termie squad, even with delightful agonies for a 5+ FNP, I'm lucky to see 2 models survive a turn of shooting.

 

But then I fight a lot of Eldar. 

 

No one survives Eldar.

Especially not with Ancient Doom where they reroll misses against you in the turn you charge if you're playing Slaanesh like you seem to want to.

 

Here, they'll be under armor until the Spartan dies or they get out, then they can shoot and charge. If this is a serious problem for you against Eldar, then equip them with Combi-Bolters to shred one squad (shooting twice for Slaanesh) before charging another with something like Power Mauls. Also, always bring at least 1 Power Fist or Chainfist for cracking big stuff.

 

Alternately, Plasma and Power Swords works. Veterans of the Long War is your friend.

[Redtoof]

I've played against the Typhon with a Tyranid Monster army and it wrecked my face. It is definitely overcosted now but I'd be surprised if it doesn't drop back to a more reasonable level eventually. My guess is they'll all go back down a bit in chapter approved once they've had a year's worth of 'play-testing'/player complaints.

[Lhorke The First]

Lhorke, I still daydream about building a 'berzerkers in Land Raider' army with Khârn in a Spartan. Makes the mouth drool thinking about it.

You should! Most fun army build I have ever done!

 

 

I agree with GreaterChicken, three sqauds of plasma havocs backed by a lord in a Spartan sounds promising. 

[betrayer41]

I run a Spartan kahrn combo as well and LOVE it plus its a great model