Things I never noticed

[Karhedron]

Have you ever had one of those moments where you discover a particular rule/unit/combo that you thought was illegal is in fact perfectly valid?

I assumed that the WG Pack leader in TDA option was the same for all squads. I have just noticed the Long Fang version can take heavy weapons. I know most people probably were perfectly aware of this but it is still a surprise to me. Assault Cannons sound good and CMLs even better. Why did I never notice that before?

What lightbulb moments have you had?

[Wassa]

Cadian IG warlord with Superior Tactical Training + Laurels of Command.

 

When issuing an order to troops, STT allows that order to apply to another nearby troop unit on a 4+.

 

LoC then allows you to issue another order to those troops on a 4+, not counting towards the order limit. Doing so allows another chance for it to apply to nearby troops with STT.

 

 

You can then issue orders to the second group of troops that haven't been issued their own order yet (but have had the other troops order apply to them).

Again, you roll for STT and LoC. These orders may also end up applying to the original troops.

 

 

Granted you need a few lucky 4+ rolls, but you can end up with killer squads with 36 shots rerolling all failed hits, and failed wounds rolls of 1..

 

Edit: Just realised this was a space wolves forum, ignore me, i'll retreat back to our hole!

[PeteySödes]

Yea its actually caused me some list stress. I use TDAWG with SS to keep my guys alive but the CML in LFs is so clutch sometimes with the rerolls. Its hard to make the call of whether he's a hard ablative wound or the most expensive model in the unit. 

 

In the end i generally go with both but stay choosy with tanking hits.

 

To your point though yea, when i realized it in the index my heart skipped a beat as I confirmed i couldnt take ACs in GH squads lol.

[TiguriusX]

My light bulb was also with long fangs

 

Treating them as tacticals instead of devastators

 

You can out flank them with your aforementioned TDAWG and a heavy weapon of your choice

 

The pack leader that most people treat as red shirt #1 can take all kinds of war gear

 

This unit puts the cherry on top by rerolling 1s

 

All kinds of combos possible for these sneaky old guys

[Krakendoomcool]

I particularly like the TDAWG in the power armour squads because it looks great and no one else gets to do it. Which in my book makes it almost mandatory.

 

I do miss the Assault cannon guy in with my grey hunters though.

[Gherrick]

Oh, if only our codex allows the tdawg in pa units to take a heavy weapon...

[OgreOnAStick]

The terminator with a heavy weapon in a pack of power armour meatshields battlebrothers is one of the more interesting squad options SW share with Deathwatch (and Iron Hands fluffwise if I recall correctly), which makes me dread for the release of their codex as it might have a knock on effect for our codex on this particular unit composition. 

 

Allowing for the terminator pack leader to take a heavy weapon in mixed packs other than Long Fangs would a lovely addition as it would allow for more heavy weapons in the field and free the Long Fangs to focus more on their fire support role. This is naturally in exchange of forgoing the usual transportation options, which itself is mitigated by sacrificing CP for the flanking stratagem.

 

I used to run 4 LF w/ Terminator squads (2 cyclones, 2 AC+CPlasma) and two traditional LF squads, due to their flexibility in loadouts and battlefield role (and as a legacy stand in for mixed WG from 5th edition). Unfortunately, the list got gutted by the Rule of 3.

 

 

For another underrated pick, there is Harald Deathwolf, while a bit pricey in my opinion, is a decent HQ option with quite the large threat range when outflanking with his 10" base movement and is almost impervious to shooting with his 2+/2++, which is usually a nasty surprise to backline fire support units. As he is a single model it is also easier to find spots for him to outflank from.

[SW1]

What's this rule of 3?

 

I've not been playing for a while so missed it.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Honestly though, apart from ONE extra wound and a 5++, a TDWG wouldn't bring any additional rules to Grey Hunters. There is no more relentless, which is why I retired my Assault cannon and CML earlier in the edition which kept kissing without a source of rerolls. And GH don't have any heavy weapons anyway.

 

With Long Fangs on other hand... I dunno, altough its a nice gimmick, if I'm going to outflank my Long Fangs, I don't want to invest too much in them, and a TDWG with heavy weapon would bump up the cost to nearly 50.

 

Sadly for me, i've never discovered anything that leapt out and said "I can do that?". Because in the end, I think Space Wolves NEVER have any cheese we can exploit. Because we are always well balanced. It's everyone else that is over the top. :)

 

Just my opinion, not imposing on all of you.

[Gherrick]

What's this rule of 3?

 

I've not been playing for a while so missed it.

Beta rule. At 2000pts, you can use the same datasheet at most 3 times for your entire army. It drops to 2 when below 2000pts, and I think it goes to 4 around 2500pts. In theory it stops the over-spam of certain units.

[Kasper_Hawser]

What's this rule of 3?

 

I've not been playing for a while so missed it.

 

It's a beta rule from the recent FAQ, but also only applies for tournaments. Basically cannot have more than 3 of the same datasheet type of unit in your list. This was mainly to curb the "Spam lists", like 5-7 Flyrants, 5-7 Dark Reapers, I would say Tau commander spam but even before the FAQ, in their own codex they were nerfed to having only one per detachment.

 

Back to OP, I have to add that outflanking Long Fangs WITH heavy weapons is the new tactic for me.

[Arentius]

Outflank melta longfangs with a wgpl in termi armour and a cyclone missile launcher with storm shield.

Drop in Njall with them to give the biggest in range threat -1 to hit and then slap cover on them just in case the terminator does drop and you have a very scary unit.

 

It’s very easy for these chaps to destroy even a baneblade in 1 round

[Gherrick]

Outflank melta longfangs with a wgpl in termi armour and a cyclone missile launcher with storm shield.

Drop in Njall with them to give the biggest in range threat -1 to hit and then slap cover on them just in case the terminator does drop and you have a very scary unit.

 

It’s very easy for these chaps to destroy even a baneblade in 1 round

Just to be clear, when you outflank, the LF are all at -1 to hit because they count as having moved, correct? So with 4 MM shots, you are on average gonna wound once on a T8 unit, or perhaps not at all on a T9+ unit. Having reroll 1s can help a bit (I tend to roll a LOT of 1s on my first roll), but it feels like you won't get your points back most of the time before that unit gets pasted.

[TiguriusX]

 

 

Outflank melta longfangs with a wgpl in termi armour and a cyclone missile launcher with storm shield.

Drop in Njall with them to give the biggest in range threat -1 to hit and then slap cover on them just in case the terminator does drop and you have a very scary unit.

 

It’s very easy for these chaps to destroy even a baneblade in 1 round

Just to be clear, when you outflank, the LF are all at -1 to hit because they count as having moved, correct? So with 4 MM shots, you are on average gonna wound once on a T8 unit, or perhaps not at all on a T9+ unit. Having reroll 1s can help a bit (I tend to roll a LOT of 1s on my first roll), but it feels like you won't get your points back most of the time before that unit gets pasted.

this is the main reason I use regular melta and plasma on the squad. no penalty when they arrive

[Arentius]

 

 

Outflank melta longfangs with a wgpl in termi armour and a cyclone missile launcher with storm shield.

Drop in Njall with them to give the biggest in range threat -1 to hit and then slap cover on them just in case the terminator does drop and you have a very scary unit.

 

It’s very easy for these chaps to destroy even a baneblade in 1 round

Just to be clear, when you outflank, the LF are all at -1 to hit because they count as having moved, correct? So with 4 MM shots, you are on average gonna wound once on a T8 unit, or perhaps not at all on a T9+ unit. Having reroll 1s can help a bit (I tend to roll a LOT of 1s on my first roll), but it feels like you won't get your points back most of the time before that unit gets pasted.

I find that they usually get 2-3 hits on average thanks to the reroll and they’ve yet to fail to get their points back.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

Outflank melta longfangs with a wgpl in termi armour and a cyclone missile launcher with storm shield.

Drop in Njall with them to give the biggest in range threat -1 to hit and then slap cover on them just in case the terminator does drop and you have a very scary unit.

 

It’s very easy for these chaps to destroy even a baneblade in 1 round

Just to be clear, when you outflank, the LF are all at -1 to hit because they count as having moved, correct? So with 4 MM shots, you are on average gonna wound once on a T8 unit, or perhaps not at all on a T9+ unit. Having reroll 1s can help a bit (I tend to roll a LOT of 1s on my first roll), but it feels like you won't get your points back most of the time before that unit gets pasted.

I find that they usually get 2-3 hits on average thanks to the reroll and they’ve yet to fail to get their points back.

 

 

Yep. So far, have managed to get at least one Razorback on the outflanking with 3 heavy weapons at -1 to hit. 150 points of Long Fangs taking out a 100+ unit isn't so bad, more so if they divert firepower away from the MIDFIELD and BACKLINE units. And if he ignores them, then he still risks a lascannon in his behind.

 

This is why I take a schizo loadout of 1 Lascannon, 1 missile launcher and 1 Plasma Cannon. Somehow that load out always confuses the target priority of my opponents, everytime I see them debating with themselves on whether to take them out or not.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

I've just been outflanking my long fangs with bolters, pack leader with pg, and a combi plas WG. Dirt cheap. Maybe it's just me, but my heavy support firepower is in stormfangs and predators.

[Sturm Moonwolf]

But as per the OP, has anyone else tried using Girlyman? I found him to be quite amazing for wolves (using my 30k Russ as a counts as). +1 to advances and charges and the 12" re roll 1's buff for Imperium keyword has made my Wulfen/BC combo very viscous. 

[Kasper_Hawser]

But as per the OP, has anyone else tried using Girlyman? I found him to be quite amazing for wolves (using my 30k Russ as a counts as). +1 to advances and charges and the 12" re roll 1's buff for Imperium keyword has made my Wulfen/BC combo very viscous. 

 

sigh, one of these days I will try, preferably before Russ comes back. But at 500 points now, it's really difficult to find a place for him.

[Karhedron]

 

But as per the OP, has anyone else tried using Girlyman? I found him to be quite amazing for wolves (using my 30k Russ as a counts as). +1 to advances and charges and the 12" re roll 1's buff for Imperium keyword has made my Wulfen/BC combo very viscous.

sigh, one of these days I will try, preferably before Russ comes back. But at 500 points now, it's really difficult to find a place for him.

 

Bobby G is only 400 points. He went up a bit in the FAQ but not that much.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

But as per the OP, has anyone else tried using Girlyman? I found him to be quite amazing for wolves (using my 30k Russ as a counts as). +1 to advances and charges and the 12" re roll 1's buff for Imperium keyword has made my Wulfen/BC combo very viscous.

sigh, one of these days I will try, preferably before Russ comes back. But at 500 points now, it's really difficult to find a place for him.

 

Bobby G is only 400 points. He went up a bit in the FAQ but not that much.

 

 

I stand corrected. Still that means forgoing almost 4 squads of Grey Hunters with 8 plasma shots. Or my 3 Long Fang squads. Or Bjorn + Battle leader....

 

Guilliman isn't someone you can shoehorn into your existing list, like it or not as a LOW, we need to make a list around him.

[DanPesci]

I've just been outflanking my long fangs with bolters, pack leader with pg, and a combi plas WG. Dirt cheap. Maybe it's just me, but my heavy support firepower is in stormfangs and predators.

 

Forgive me if im being dense (friday...its been a long week).

 

But what is the difference here with not just using grey hunters..dont they have those options??

 

EDIT - Wait, they reroll 1s dont they...DUH!

 

[Havok13]

 

 

 

Outflank melta longfangs with a wgpl in termi armour and a cyclone missile launcher with storm shield.

Drop in Njall with them to give the biggest in range threat -1 to hit and then slap cover on them just in case the terminator does drop and you have a very scary unit.

 

It’s very easy for these chaps to destroy even a baneblade in 1 round

Just to be clear, when you outflank, the LF are all at -1 to hit because they count as having moved, correct? So with 4 MM shots, you are on average gonna wound once on a T8 unit, or perhaps not at all on a T9+ unit. Having reroll 1s can help a bit (I tend to roll a LOT of 1s on my first roll), but it feels like you won't get your points back most of the time before that unit gets pasted.

this is the main reason I use regular melta and plasma on the squad. no penalty when they arrive

Not sure if I understand you correctly but long fangs can't take regular melta and plasma according to the index.

[Gherrick]

If their job is to take out a big bad, the reroll 1s only helps if you don't use heavy weapons, so at best you have a PG and combi-plasma, which isn't enough vs most vehicles/monsters. Still, I think such a unit would be very useful to disrupt the opponent's plans, and possibly steal/hold an objective that is left inadequately defended.

 

For big game hunting, I think it is more practical to bring a unit of WG with jump packs sporting combis instead of long fangs. You could give 1-2 SS in case someone decides to hit the unit with some plasma et al. You won't have the rerolls without also committing a wolf lord, so I'd probably spend those same points on more models for the unit or a full second unit. The 10 hellblasters I used in one match performed very well, taking out a GM dreadknight in one volley (Harold was nearby, and getting 20 supercharged shots at 15" is awesome).

[Arentius]

You still get to reroll 1’s even when hitting on a 4+?

 

It all depends on overall plan. If you make a unit of melta fangs pop up next to your opponents big tanks. And you also have a unit of Wulfen appearing in their face (either from transport or on the hunt) it’s not an easy choice for which threat to nullify.

 

I’ve only had a couple of games where longfang deepstrike has gone messed up