Mechanized viability / longevity?

[Endgame]

I've been toying with picking up some razor backs and running a mechanized list, but I'm wondering if it is worth the investment? I'm thinking of building a list using 6 Las + double plas razorbacks plus a few vindicators or predators. Given the Las plas turret is only in the index, though, does anyone expect it to become unsupported at some point soon? Heck, with the move to primaris, are razor backs in general in the endangered species list?

 

And, if I pick it up, is a razor back heavy list good, or just fodder?

[stuka06]

I've had 2 tactical squads mechanized with Twin Assault canon Razorbacks in my last game. They weren't amazing, but did good work (Plasma was amazing)

[Lion's Crown]

I use rhino to get closer to my target/objective, block a path/line of sight, all the while protecting the cargo inside. After a turn you should be able to deliver it's cargo to it's destination.

 

I prefer to use razorbacks when I want to sit on my ass and wait for my opponent to come to me. It's an extra security that my troops won't die too easily to my opponent long range fire power plus they offer decent pressure against low T units that might be tempted to rush head on and against infiltrators.

 

One or two razorbacks might be able to chew some points that will make them worth the trouble but it all depend of the army I face and what I expect my opponent to field. They can be good for sure thought, but point wise less often then rhinos.

[Burias-Drak'shal]

I don't think its the most competitive type of list but works against some armies and suffers greatly against others. Mainly because lots of armies can bring lots of antitank very cheaply now.

 

On the Razorback front its probably not a good sign it didn't make it to the codex especially the DA codex with our great use of plasma.

[Endgame]

I don't think its the most competitive type of list but works against some armies and suffers greatly against others. Mainly because lots of armies can bring lots of antitank very cheaply now.

 

On the Razorback front its probably not a good sign it didn't make it to the codex especially the DA codex with our great use of plasma.

Do other armies often bring enough anti tank to manage handling 6 razor backs, 3 vindicators, and a venerable dread? If so, then I think I need to rework my plan any way.

[Deathwalker]

 

I don't think its the most competitive type of list but works against some armies and suffers greatly against others. Mainly because lots of armies can bring lots of antitank very cheaply now.

 

On the Razorback front its probably not a good sign it didn't make it to the codex especially the DA codex with our great use of plasma.

Do other armies often bring enough anti tank to manage handling 6 razor backs, 3 vindicators, and a venerable dread? If so, then I think I need to rework my plan any way.

 

If that is your mech element, what is in the rest of your list!!

[sneakybamsen]

6 razors, 3 vindicators and a dreadnought. That's not going to be a huge bother for most lists. There is T8 with decent amount of wounds, against which some armies can struggle a bit, but they don't provide the firepower you'd like, and the las+plasma you'll face will have a field day. 6 asssault cannons razorbacks is 684 points (chaff killers, you'll need that), 3 vindicators is another 375, then a venerable dread in decent dakka loadout (twin twin-autocannon or twin-auto+twin-las or twin-las+missile) which is another 160'ish points. Neither of these options are particularly strong. If you want to build a mechanized list, you should no doubt get 3 predators and perhaps a deimos pattern predator. Killshot stratagem is a beast, and if you don't have tanks or monsters to shoot at, dakkapreds kill chaff too. Then sprinkle in the heretical repulsor tank, maybe even two of those. 4 razorbacks, maybe even three, could allow for 4 predators (one being the deimos one from FW) with mixed loadouts (I think I'd go two dakka and two las for instance), 3 scout squads and 3 HQ's could be fit into a battalion + spearhead when also including one or possibly two repulsors. Something along those lines.

 

Few of the tank choices we have are strong to be honest, but the worst part about a mechanized list, is you have very limited options for tanks-only that are battleforged.

 

I'm afraid that at some point in the future, less and less areas/people/events will allow index options, and GW might kill off what they no longer sell. So plasma+las razorbacks will go, assault cannon options might be going too at some point, as that is not a part of the kit either.

[Endgame]

 

 

 

 

I don't think its the most competitive type of list but works against some armies and suffers greatly against others. Mainly because lots of armies can bring lots of antitank very cheaply now.

 

On the Razorback front its probably not a good sign it didn't make it to the codex especially the DA codex with our great use of plasma.

Do other armies often bring enough anti tank to manage handling 6 razor backs, 3 vindicators, and a venerable dread? If so, then I think I need to rework my plan any way.

 

If that is your mech element, what is in the rest of your list!!

 

 

2 Tac squads, 1 Scout Squad, and 3 Vet Squads. Maybe I'll create a post in the list section with it. However, if 68 T7 wounds and 33 T8 wounds isn't enough to cause of worry to a typical list, then there isn't a whole lot of reason to pursue the list. 30 1 wound marine isn't going to win the day.

[Helycon]

I think the older models will be fine. It would be harsh for a lot of people to invalidate so many models and options.

[Tokugawa]

Did Faq already kill the las-plas razorback, by explaining overheat boom the whole vehicle?

 

Is Twin-LC razorback an OK choice?

[march10k]

Is Twin-LC razorback an OK choice?

I think so...two of them effectively replace a lascannon predator.  Differences:

 

1. Predator loses stats, IIRC, as it takes damage, razor doesn't.

2. Lascannons are spread across two vehicles, so the loss of one vehicle doesn't cost you 4 lascannons.  That, to me, makes up for one predator being harder to kill than one razor.

3.  Predators have access to kill shot, razors don't.

[Endgame]

Razors also degrade.  The only difference in durability is 1 wound on the Pred, and with the new rule of 3 if you lose 1 pred you lose kill shot.  Las + Plas Razor can move without taking a hit to accuracy on the plas, and can throw out an OK amount of firepower at 12" for 117 points (add a storm bolter as well).

[march10k]

Hmm...one wound is all the difference?  Then there's no question that 2 razors are better than one predator for the same number of lascannons.  Because kill shot won't last.  I do take your point about the las/plas razor, though.  It's a beast.

[Berzul]

 

Is Twin-LC razorback an OK choice?

I think so...two of them effectively replace a lascannon predator.  Differences:

 

1. Predator loses stats, IIRC, as it takes damage, razor doesn't.

2. Lascannons are spread across two vehicles, so the loss of one vehicle doesn't cost you 4 lascannons.  That, to me, makes up for one predator being harder to kill than one razor.

3.  Predators have access to kill shot, razors don't.

 

 

Also, you can use the razors to reduce the number of drops on a list, to get that +1 to the roll to determine first player.

[march10k]

 

 

Is Twin-LC razorback an OK choice?

I think so...two of them effectively replace a lascannon predator.  Differences:

 

1. Predator loses stats, IIRC, as it takes damage, razor doesn't.

2. Lascannons are spread across two vehicles, so the loss of one vehicle doesn't cost you 4 lascannons.  That, to me, makes up for one predator being harder to kill than one razor.

3.  Predators have access to kill shot, razors don't.

 

 

Also, you can use the razors to reduce the number of drops on a list, to get that +1 to the roll to determine first player.

 

Oh, because the transport counts as the same drop as the unit it's paired with?  That's a good point.  I do find it hilarious that you could, for example, field a squadron of three vindicators, and then take a razorback as "the transport for the vindicators."  But, yeah, razors to eat up points (but well-spent points, not wasted points) to reduce the number of drops, that's pretty savvy.  It's too bad that land raiders can't be taken as transports for the deathwing. My mechanized deathwing could get away with 4 drops instead of 7.

[Isual]

 

Oh, because the transport counts as the same drop as the unit it's paired with?  That's a good point.  I do find it hilarious that you could, for example, field a squadron of three vindicators, and then take a razorback as "the transport for the vindicators."  But, yeah, razors to eat up points (but well-spent points, not wasted points) to reduce the number of drops, that's pretty savvy.  It's too bad that land raiders can't be taken as transports for the deathwing. My mechanized deathwing could get away with 4 drops instead of 7.

 

For my understanding it's not the unit it is "paired" with, because that isn't a thing anymore.  Instead it's the unit embarked in it, so the vindicators would count seperately but the Deathwing inside the land raider would be placed together onto the Battlefield.

[Berzul]

yeah, you no longer have to to tie a transport to a unit. The number of units determines the number of transports you can bring, but thats it.

 

So, you take 3 troop choices, that allows 3 transports, but you can use the transport to, for instance, deploy an elite unit of veterans, and 4 characters, all inside the transport, even though you brought it because the tacticals you brought allowed you to.

 

When deploying the transport, you just decide what other units go inside. thts it.

 

My only question would be... when I deploy a transport, can I choose a tactical squad, and combat squad it then and there, to put half in the transport?

[Isual]

@Berzul

 

The codex states that "before any models are deployed...may be split into two units", so you have to combatsquad them before deployment anyways. Then you can put one half of them into the transport, or both of them, or none... as you like.

[sneakybamsen]

@Berzul

 

The codex states that "before any models are deployed...may be split into two units", so you have to combatsquad them before deployment anyways. Then you can put one half of them into the transport, or both of them, or none... as you like.

 

Yes, the combat squads rule says that. But for the particular situation where you need a 10 man squad split after deployment, you have a stratagem (don't recall the name right now), so it's possible to do after deployment too.