Death Company Captain Smash!

[RyanT2112]

Ok so.... the Captain Smash with Death Visions is broken as all hell. I mean I caused 24 damage in 1 turn to a Necron vehicle..... oh my.

 

:D

[Spagunk]

Big risk, big reward. Some days CPT smash does 0 damage or misses the charge. Feast or famine.

[Brother Aether]

I am the first to admit that my record of # of games played is not particularly high. That said, anecdotal evidence from fellow frater and friends seems to mention that a lot of the "big bosses" that people use in games have a similar "big risk, big reward" feel (as Spagunk mentioned above).

 

TL;DR: I wouldn't categorize this as "broken," but rather that depending on some luck (as our dice-based games tend to), you can get a real big boom out of your lead HQs!  

[toaae]

He is effective and efficient, but to do those huge murder turns, he requires some luck and a lot of command points invested. And an opponent rolling some hot invulnerable saves can just see him do nothing.

[Brother Crimson]

He is great but he is also a big CP sink. If you play pure blood angels I think he is broken because you won’t do it often. That’s 7 CP for death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter. This is a lot for most pure armies.

 

The big part can come from guard allies.

 

You can now get 18 cp and a cp engine with grand strategist with some cheap guard detachements. This means you can pull off the death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter several times per game. This is very competitive build that’s is not suited for friendly casual games.

[Spagunk]

One way to think about it is that we don't have a comparable big unit other than repressors, land raiders and storm ravens. Every other marine chapters have that so there really is no difference. Capt. Smash is our one chance to fight off a big unit. He's just a marine that hits REAL hard. Can be squished pretty easily and is used for the purpose of sacrificing the model. Many consider it essentially a cruise missile that you point at what you want hurt and let it go. Anything more it can accomplish is just gravy.

[durdle-durdle]

He is great but he is also a big CP sink. If you play pure blood angels I think he is broken because you won’t do it often. That’s 7 CP for death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter. This is a lot for most pure armies.

 

The big part can come from guard allies.

 

You can now get 18 cp and a cp engine with grand strategist with some cheap guard detachements. This means you can pull off the death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter several times per game. This is very competitive build that’s is not suited for friendly casual games.

Really, at that point you’re playing guard with blood angel allies. Which if that’s your jam fine.

 

He’s pretty good, but you’ve got to be careful with the amount of points you dump into him. Sure doing all that stuff is great, but you know what’s also great? Having like 4-5 extra points because you didn’t depend so heavily on one character one rounding everything.

[Deathwalker]

 

He is great but he is also a big CP sink. If you play pure blood angels I think he is broken because you won’t do it often. That’s 7 CP for death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter. This is a lot for most pure armies.

 

The big part can come from guard allies.

 

You can now get 18 cp and a cp engine with grand strategist with some cheap guard detachements. This means you can pull off the death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter several times per game. This is very competitive build that’s is not suited for friendly casual games.

Really, at that point you’re playing guard with blood angel allies. Which if that’s your jam fine.

 

He’s pretty good, but you’ve got to be careful with the amount of points you dump into him. Sure doing all that stuff is great, but you know what’s also great? Having like 4-5 extra points because you didn’t depend so heavily on one character one rounding everything.

 

Point 1:

When I play with allies, or write lists, I look at who has the most points and decide what faction it is based on that because it's the only real way to do it (or power, but PL is so....... random)

Having 60 guard that cost 500 pnts and 20 BA that cost 1500 pnts is not a "guard army with BA", it's a BA army with guard because you are using your finite resources (points) to leverage a game affecting (random) result.

Point 2:

Cap is cheap as hell in points, he is hard on the even more finite resource of CP's. I think you may have meant CP's in that statement, and having 4-5 extra CP's will make a difference, 4-5 points is a powersword.

[Diagramdude]

I was about to make a standalone post just now exulting about Captain Slam but this is the perfect thread! Slamguinius JUST carried me through a three-round 16man tournament today. Ended up 3-0 but took 2nd because I didn't rack up as many points as the other guy who went 3-0 (ITC/Best Pairs Coasting style scoring)! 

 

I was playing Cadian Brigade + Celestine + BA Supreme Command (Slam, Meph, Libby Dread) and wow Capt. Slam completely stole the show in Round 3.

 

I was against a hyper-tuned Dark Eldar opponent who was also 2-0, so we were playing on the "top tables" next to two other guys who were also 2-0. Winner was guaranteed a top 2 finish so stakes were high. He ran six Venoms with 5 warriors each (4 splinters, 1 blaster), three Ravagers with triple dark lance, a 20-woman Wych bomb, Reivers, Scourges, two Archons and a Succubus. 

Long story short, I seized on him and Forlorn Furied Captain Smash 17" up the board, moved another 12" ending just outside 1" of his three Ravagers. Pask provided supporting fire and killed one Ravager in the shooting phase, and then Captain Smash, declaring every unit within 12" as a charge target, proceeded to roll a 9" charge to make it into combat with Ravager #2, took it down to one wound, then Honoured the Chapter and split his swings perfectly between the wounded Ravager and the third Ravager, killing BOTH. The third Ravager exploded and spread mortal wounds throughout his entire firebase. Slamguinius consolidated into one of the Archons.

 

During my opponents ensuing first turn Capt. Slam proceeded to make his storm shield save against the Archon's blaster and during the fight phase, I used 2 CP to interrupt with Capt. Slam and put three hammer wounds onto the Archon. The Archon proceeded to immediately fail his first Shadowfield save and was obliterated.

 

Slam then on my second turn flew up to my opponent's second Archon (the opponent's Warlord) and dispatched him the exact same way. Facing three thunder hammer wounds, the Archon failed his first Shadowfield save and turned into sticky goo. 

Slam went down fighting 20 Wychs and a Succubus. He was an unbelievable one-man army that single-handedly torpedoed my opponent's heavy hitters.

 

This guy is an absolute beast at 129 pts.

[CaptainHelion]

Gotta feel sorry for that Archon. Failing your first Shadowfield save is a kind of pain few of us will ever experience

[Diagramdude]

My opponent and I agreed that there must be a third Archon back in Commorragh cackling with glee after sabatoging the Shadowfield generators of the two Archons venturing into realspace. Definitely something cloak-and-dagger going on behind the scenes! Two first attempt fails, with lethal outcome.. ouch.

[Karhedron]

The thing to remember about Captain Smash is that he needs suitably high-value targets to get his point back.

[durdle-durdle]

 

 

 

He is great but he is also a big CP sink. If you play pure blood angels I think he is broken because you won’t do it often. That’s 7 CP for death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter. This is a lot for most pure armies.

 

The big part can come from guard allies.

 

You can now get 18 cp and a cp engine with grand strategist with some cheap guard detachements. This means you can pull off the death vision/descent of angels/red rampage/honor the chapter several times per game. This is very competitive build that’s is not suited for friendly casual games.

Really, at that point you’re playing guard with blood angel allies. Which if that’s your jam fine.

 

He’s pretty good, but you’ve got to be careful with the amount of points you dump into him. Sure doing all that stuff is great, but you know what’s also great? Having like 4-5 extra points because you didn’t depend so heavily on one character one rounding everything.

Point 1:

When I play with allies, or write lists, I look at who has the most points and decide what faction it is based on that because it's the only real way to do it (or power, but PL is so....... random)

Having 60 guard that cost 500 pnts and 20 BA that cost 1500 pnts is not a "guard army with BA", it's a BA army with guard because you are using your finite resources (points) to leverage a game affecting (random) result.

Point 2:

Cap is cheap as hell in points, he is hard on the even more finite resource of CP's. I think you may have meant CP's in that statement, and having 4-5 extra CP's will make a difference, 4-5 points is a powersword.

You’re getting 18 cp off of 500 points of guard? To be fair I constantly forget how cheap their options are.

 

Yeah, I meant command points, not points points. I see people here talking about dropping 6+ cp on him all the time, which is occasionally useful, but also often overkill or wasteful. I’m just saying to probably be more conservative with points on him. I also don’t bring any allies though, so points mean more to me.

[Indefragable]

Captain Smash/Slamguinius is a VERY potent unit but what keeps him from being broken is that you can only have one of him.

 

Sure, you can just spam Captains w/ TH/SS but only one can get THE combo that makes Slammy sonpotent:

 

-Angel’s Wing Relic (you can only have 1 in your army)

-Artisan of War warlord trait (again, can only have 1)

-Death Visions of Sanguinius: as a pre-game Stratagem, like the one to give you extra Rlics, you can only use it once.

 

So yes, he’s quite powerful, but the above limitations keep him somewhat grounded.

[Deathwalker]

I am not convinced that Visions is one use, it is worded like SFTS or other multi use pre game CP costs.

It also does not say one use only.

[Panzer]

Death Visions should be multi-use, but that doesn't really matter. It's not what makes Captain Smash so strong. The +1 damage trait and the relic gives him the edge over similar Captains (hammer relic and a combination of visions + foresight trait is a close second imo) but even more important is that you can use all the buff Stratagems only once per phase. +1d3 attacks, fighting a second time, fighting after death, 3d6 charge, UWOF. All those you can only use once per phase and if you use all them you're pretty much out of CP anyway (or at least if you do it twice).

[Deathwalker]

Death Visions should be multi-use, but that doesn't really matter. It's not what makes Captain Smash so strong. The +1 damage trait and the relic gives him the edge over similar Captains (hammer relic and a combination of visions + foresight trait is a close second imo) but even more important is that you can use all the buff Stratagems only once per phase. +1d3 attacks, fighting a second time, fighting after death, 3d6 charge, UWOF. All those you can only use once per phase and if you use all them you're pretty much out of CP anyway (or at least if you do it twice).

I have Zero issues with cap'n smash

I have Zero issues with Azrael and the fortress of doom

I have zero issues with the Pask line of tanks

 

CP cost, as you say deals with them. 

[Karhedron]

I see people here talking about dropping 6+ cp on him all the time, which is occasionally useful, but also often overkill or wasteful. I’m just saying to probably be more conservative with points on him. I also don’t bring any allies though, so points mean more to me.

Spending that number of points on Captain Smash is rather situational but it does potentially make him a very potent "spoiler". You can include for 129 points and he will do good work.

 

But if your opponent brings a large powerful/expensive unit, you can potentially splurge those CPs to allow the good Captain to drop a unit that costs 2-3 times his points in a single round. I have used him to drop a Warlord Bloodthirster in the past and prevent it rampaging through our lines (which was very impressive and fluffy ).

[Xerxus]

He killed two knights in two turns during a tournament game, dishing out 20 damage to each one. That's just with Red Rampage so it was a slight highroll but I had backup units in melee ready to finish the job. 

[Remtek]

Really like using forlorn fury on him, if going second he is usually safe unlike the DC. 

[MeltaRange]

The thing to remember about Captain Smash is that he needs suitably high-value targets to get his point back.

 

Why?  If the opponent doesn't have anything that needs all the buffs, just play him as a normal captain and don't spend the CP, make someone else the Warlord, don't give him the relic, etc.  He's 120 points, give or take.  Ridiculously cheap for what he does.  

[Jolemai]

Only used him once and he instagibbed the enemy warlord - and was then shot to bits next turn. In hindsight I should have gone for a juicier target but...

 

The big question though, doesn't anyone have any to paint for the ETL?

[Diagramdude]

His high CP burn rate can be significantly mitigated by running the Grand Strategist/Veritas Vitae CP regeneration cheese. You won't be getting artisan of war but you can use stratagems much more recklessly.

[Bishoujo]

 

Spending that number of points on Captain Smash is rather situational but it does potentially make him a very potent "spoiler". You can include for 129 points and he will do good work.

 

But if your opponent brings a large powerful/expensive unit, you can potentially splurge those CPs to allow the good Captain to drop a unit that costs 2-3 times his points in a single round. I have used him to drop a Warlord Bloodthirster in the past and prevent it rampaging through our lines (which was very impressive and fluffy ).

I absolutely agree.  It seems to me that what makes Captain Slam so good is his potential.  His actual points cost is very reasonable for what he can do, but his real danger comes when you start spending CP.  Sure, you can spend like 7 CP on him to wreck some face, but if he never finds a good target for that, it's not like those CP were spent and wasted.  You don't *have* go to CP crazy every game with him if things don't line up.

 

If you spend 500+ points on a deathstar unit that never makes contact with it's preferred target, those points could be considered wasted.  But if Captain Slam never finds his mark, most of those CP can be used on something else.  It's that flexibility that makes him so dangerous in my opinion.

[Indefragable]

 

Why?  If the opponent doesn't have anything that needs all the buffs, just play him as a normal captain and don't spend the CP, make someone else the Warlord, don't give him the relic, etc.  He's 120 points, give or take.  Ridiculously cheap for what he does.  

 

 

Yea exactly. At the very least he gives you re-rollable 1's To Hit....you're gonna get use out of him in some way shape or form.

 

On a different note, I predict (and hope) that Captain Smash is a bit of a hint at what we may see with Sanguinius' 30k rules.