Wolf Scouts improvements

[Kasper_Hawser]

Just an idle exercise, not sure i saw a thread for this in part few months although a lot was mentioned about Scouts. As of now, they're now the subject of ridicule as despite being more experienced, they're lacking key abilities that their younger brethren can do, mainly infiltrate and extend the deep strike denial (or any other shenanigans like Raven Guard shadow movement). Their only consolation was Behind Enemy lines, but now we can do the same for One CP, and with better units such as the Long Fangs, who benefit immensely if used as MSU.

 

Not very fluffy but undeniably effective. Which leaves our scouts vastly ineffective.

 

Compare to the normal scouts, our only other advantage is ability to bring special weapons, which require close range which a scout shouldn't do.

 

What do you think is best to differentiate our scouts in terms of rules?

 

Personally, I think they should reroll ones as well like Long Fang's fire discipline, which would put them and their Behind Enemy Lines in a VERY lucrative position as they can tote more plasma then a grey hunter squad.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Honestly I think they should also be able to deploy like regular SM scouts as well as have BEL. Especially with the new beta rules effectively nerfing BEL. I see no reason they shouldnt work like normal scouts and have a special rule or 2.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Scouts are a unit I am really worried about. GW sometimes just keeps rules that made units good in previous editions even if they don't translate well into 8th edition. I am worried they won't get the attention they require.

 

I agree with jbickb that they should be able to deploy like regular SM scouts or BEL(which is way worse in this edition). It may also be time to move them to the Troops slot. I know they have been Elite for many editions now. But there is nothing Elite about them in gameplay. Fluff-wise due to rarity and that they're not our initiates there's an argument they should be in "Elite."

[Krakendoomcool]

Two attacks base might not be the most useful thing in the world but would fit the veteran profile.

 

For special rules they should at least have the novice scout rules.

[PeteySödes]

Just spitballing but in addition to whats been said already:

 

Special issue ammo?

Maybe unlocking the orbital strike, representing sabotage etc.?

"Free" camo cloaks or a similar rule.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Just spitballing but in addition to whats been said already:

 

Special issue ammo?

Maybe unlocking the orbital strike, representing sabotage etc.?

"Free" camo cloaks or a similar rule.

 

While i like special issue ammo, Space Wolves have never used them, and even among other chapters only Sternguards, which are implied to be former Deathwatch themselves, have them.

 

If they're going to be kept in elite squad, they definitely need an additional ability. At the BARE MINIMUM, two attacks although not very useful, at least it may justify worth putting a power weapon on the scout sergeant.

 

For the second rule.... you know what? Just give the normal infiltrate ability IN ADDITION to the Behind enemy lines, and I think we're good to go. Having a plasma gun within rapid fire range of enemy deployment zone has its merits too. 

 

Other than that, maybe a big boom like Sly Marbo's sabotage. 

[Rannik the White]

The best use for a unit of our scouts is to arm nine of them with sniper rifles and deploying them BEL.  Players love to hide their characters behind meat shields,  This solves that problem.

[Ratherdashing]

I still run my sniper scouts, but honestly I can't think of a fluffy way to make them better besides dropping WS/BS on SM scouts back to where it's supposed to be. Our initiates still have BS4, so I don't know a better way to convey that our scouts aren't rookies.

[TiguriusX]

9-d6 OBEL rule

 

let them come in turn 1

 

lots of potential ways to buff using rules that already exist for other units

[NightHowler]

First, make them AT LEAST equal to SM scouts.  Then they will be at least as good as the other marine's "troops" option.

 

Then, add special rules to make them worthy of the "elite" status.

 

In terms of what special rules to add, I would add a rule that lets you a) have a bonus to steal the initiative, b) lets you move objective markers after units have been placed but before the game starts, c) lets you reroll 1s as long fangs can (as was mentioned earlier - I like this since they are our "special forces"), d) lower their ballistic skill to 2+, or e) some combination of the above.

 

Don't make them a troops option.  The fluff that our scouts are elite is too cool to take away.  Just make them worthy of the elite status.

[bluescope]

An expensive melee scout without infiltration is useless in 8th ED. 

 

Wolf scout can be our pathfinder or XV95. Mark the enemy so that long fang can shoot without LOS. Assassinate characters and be able to survive tons of firepower. 

[maverik_girl]

You guys are asking the wrong question here. What can wolf scouts do now that primaris reivers cant currently. If you cant find a logical answer to this on the tabletop, then I'm afraid reivers will be the new norm in place of... said unit/squad/pack. Not to mention fluffwise! The problem of introducing new plastics and toys, is that they will ALWAYS outshine and at times, be over powered than the old and obsolete stuff. Unless you mesh both reiver and wolf scout.

 

What were the 30K recon squad rules like? Were they good enough to transition into 40K wolf scouts? At this point we dont know how much of our fluff and codex will change all due to the return of 13th company. They bring in old school tech and ideology that can reboot everything for us in a way that we go back to being Vikings than world of warcraft furries....

[Kasper_Hawser]

What were the 30K recon squad rules like? Were they good enough to transition into 40K wolf scouts? At this point we dont know how much of our fluff and codex will change all due to the return of 13th company. They bring in old school tech and ideology that can reboot everything for us in a way that we go back to being Vikings than world of warcraft furries....

 

LOL, to be fair, at least WoW furries can still talk and wear armour. But yeah, I don't want Wurgen, I want Space vikings again.....

 

 

Refer 0:43.

 

Back to topic, 30K Legion Recon scouts were essentiall Power Armoured marines that could outflank back in the day. Pretty much Cunning of the Wolf without spending a CP. If you downgrade to carapace armour, you gained Infiltrate and Move Through Cover.

 

Not very remarkable beyond being able to wield sniper rifle, but the Captain specialist scout variant on the other hand, the vigilator, DID come with special ammo and could lob a bomb of some sort once per battle.

 

I wouldn't be too worried about Reivers overshadowing Wolf Scouts. Despite their so called status as close combat specialists, they don't do the job any better than regular marines with their not-so-scarry combat blades.

[Guest Triszin]

I don't think I want special ammo.

 

Have it so our scouts have

 

Primary weapon (sniper, stalker pattern bolter)

Pistol

CQC, Helfrost axe/Helfrost blade

 

and maybe a special rule for overwatch fire?

[Ratherdashing]

I would love melta bombs as a melee weapon again...I'd infiltrate a squad of scouts if they could all carry those.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I don't think I want special ammo.

 

Have it so our scouts have

 

Primary weapon (sniper, stalker pattern bolter)

Pistol

CQC, Helfrost axe/Helfrost blade

 

and maybe a special rule for overwatch fire?

 

Perhaps we should ask for HOW the Scouts can be improved to complement the army. Right now Scouts are generally taken either for Board Control, or alternate cheap troop choice. The Wolf Scouts should also be about Board Control, but not something to replace our venerable Grey Hunters.

 

to this end, I would rather have a support rule rather than more weapons option. Long Fangs already reroll 1s so don't really need markerlight, but maybe "spotting" for a unit to reroll ones to hit or wound could be fun. A bit redundant if you are already using a wolf lord and battle leader but it'll also mean your troops won't have to cluster around the two HQs to get the rerolls.

[TiguriusX]

 

 

I don't think I want special ammo.

 

Have it so our scouts have

 

Primary weapon (sniper, stalker pattern bolter)

Pistol

CQC, Helfrost axe/Helfrost blade

 

and maybe a special rule for overwatch fire?

Perhaps we should ask for HOW the Scouts can be improved to complement the army. Right now Scouts are generally taken either for Board Control, or alternate cheap troop choice. The Wolf Scouts should also be about Board Control, but not something to replace our venerable Grey Hunters.

 

to this end, I would rather have a support rule rather than more weapons option. Long Fangs already reroll 1s so don't really need markerlight, but maybe "spotting" for a unit to reroll ones to hit or wound could be fun. A bit redundant if you are already using a wolf lord and battle leader but it'll also mean your troops won't have to cluster around the two HQs to get the rerolls.

scouts could be like long fangs and get a natural reroll (wound rolls of 1 for example)

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

I don't think I want special ammo.

 

Have it so our scouts have

 

Primary weapon (sniper, stalker pattern bolter)

Pistol

CQC, Helfrost axe/Helfrost blade

 

and maybe a special rule for overwatch fire?

Perhaps we should ask for HOW the Scouts can be improved to complement the army. Right now Scouts are generally taken either for Board Control, or alternate cheap troop choice. The Wolf Scouts should also be about Board Control, but not something to replace our venerable Grey Hunters.

 

to this end, I would rather have a support rule rather than more weapons option. Long Fangs already reroll 1s so don't really need markerlight, but maybe "spotting" for a unit to reroll ones to hit or wound could be fun. A bit redundant if you are already using a wolf lord and battle leader but it'll also mean your troops won't have to cluster around the two HQs to get the rerolls.

scouts could be like long fangs and get a natural reroll (wound rolls of 1 for example)

 

 

Yep, this was my very first suggestion in OP, although not very original. I also wanted to think of more fun yet useful rules that isn't simply copy paste reroll 1s here and there.

[Gherrick]

There are already too many ways to reroll dice. That is one of the big flaws of 8e, IMO. It skews the math, and is WAY too commonly available. I'd like to see our scouts get the base scout rules, and keep BEL, and I think that will be good enough (perhaps a small price drop as well).

 

Now, on a slightly OT but related note, what also needs fixing are sniper rifles. The current sniper rifle ain't gonna do it. It needs to be something like S5, AP-3, reduce invul save by 2, and d3 damage, wound any character on a 3+, and a bonus mortal wound on a wound roll of 6 (effectively a scaled down version of the exodus rifle). Now you have a chance to kill an average character in a single attempt (which is usually all they get). I'd make it available to the squad leader only. Alternately, remove it from scouts entirely, and make a new elite character that uses it, since snipers are usually solo.

[DanPesci]

Basic special rule of +1 to wound rolls (in shooting and combat) would be nice, especially if with no modification shenanigans. That then leaves options for how you want to utilise that too....

 

e.g.

5+ mortal wounds on snipers (with 3+ wounding against T4 and below),

effectively S8 Plasma without overcharging,

OBEL scout meltas at effective S9,

OBEL power weapon CC squads

 

Sounds elite to me

[Kasper_Hawser]

Basic special rule of +1 to wound rolls (in shooting and combat) would be nice, especially if with no modification shenanigans. That then leaves options for how you want to utilise that too....

 

e.g.

5+ mortal wounds on snipers (with 3+ wounding against T4 and below),

effectively S8 Plasma without overcharging,

OBEL scout meltas at effective S9,

OBEL power weapon CC squads

 

Sounds elite to me

 

Excellent suggestion.