Pri (-maris) or not to Pri (-maris): that is the question!

[Bluthusten]

So hello there !

 

Lets talk about our big guys here.  whats your plan?

 

-1 battallion Primaris-  DW as a support for your main army

 

-pure Deathwatch with Veterans + Primaris side by side

 

-maybe pure Veteran lists with stormbolters + terminator / biker support

 

or even a pure Biker list combined with some whitescars?

 

 

the bikers look very powerfull with SIA and stormbolter veterans too. 

 

i dont wanna play a pure Deathwatch army, but i´ll definetly add some to my white scars  and i´ll try them out with my custodes too but i think DW+Custodes did not work cause of the low model counter :D

 

 

What do you think about the Primaris? are they a way better then the old veterans?

[shandwen]

I've picked up some reavers to run my flanks with bikes, but I doubt that I will use any actual primaris kill teams. Hellblasters might find a place (as AT has always been an issue for my DW armies).

[Spinsanity]

My plan is to go pure DW-Primaris, simply because I prefer the primarines' look to the oldmarines'... Although I might if budget allows it someday add a FW-goodie or two, ideally a Leviathan, FireRaptor and/or Astraeus...

 

I'll add an Inquisitor eventually, maybe as a counts-as-Watchmaster; not sure what else to bother picking up, really.

 

 

I'm not into tournies or anything like that, obviously

[Lemondish]

My plan is to go full DW to begin, Primaris and Veterans side by side. Veterans in transports or deep striking in with Primaris as a strong, durable firebase. Dreadnoughts sprinkled in for anti-armour work. 

[Danny Cyanide]

I'm planning a mixed vet/ primaris list with 40 guardsmen and 3 Tauros Venators backing them up!

[Aothaine]

The two kill teams fill different roles. I think mixing them is going to be the best bet. But mix them in the same battalion. Use the vet kill teams for what they are good at, melee, frag cannons, etc. Teleport these guys in because they are glass cannons. Use the primaris for starting on the board. Even though the vets can have storm shields the primaris are better tanks because the squad can have 20 wounds. 

 

The most important thing for tailoring Deathwatch lists with this codex is building a good core. Remember you don't have to have 10-man kill teams but they are going to be powerful as 10-man kill teams. 

 

Example Kill Team Build out

 

Intercessor x5

Bolter Aggressor x1-4

Bolter Inceptor x1

 

Vet x5 Vet x5 (Boltgun/Plasma Gun & Power Sword)

Terminator with AC x4

VV x1 (Dual Plasma Pistol)

 

 

The vet squad you drop in using the stratagem and clean house turn 2+. These guys have amazing potential. I'll be grabbing my codex tomorrow.

 

Deathwatch units are very expensive and need to be shaped like scalpels and used more carefully than performing brain surgery. Something that was pretty cool that I saw from a batrep on the new codex against Tyranids was that Frag Cannons do work and are super effective at holding the charge which makes me wonder if going with the flamers on the aggressors might be a better option. Or at least maybe taking two aggressors with flamers and two with the bolters when building the primaris kill teams.

 

I still strongly believe that mixing your detachments is going to be necessary for a balanced list. But if you just want to focus on all shooting there are only two reasons to stick vets and old-school marines into the list. Plasma and the Frag Cannon.

[Trokair]

Based on the reviews I think I am going to do a Primaris focused force after I finish ETL VI, or more likely after that and my next AoS project.

 

I have Dark Imperium and I have been thinking what to do with them. I am not going to add them to my own chapter as I don’t really like mixing the two aesthetics. So this would be a good opportunity to do some Deathwatch as I have been meaning to do a small force ever since they first had rules in WD way back.

 

From what I have read and heard SIA should give the Primaris the flexibility they are otherwise lacking compared to normal marines with all their options.

[Boyadventurer]

For the moment I'm going to be running all primaris. I spent almost a year not really committing my Primaris to a certain chapter (and keeping them *literal* greyshields, if you catch my drift) just in case DW worked well with them. Now I get all the enjoyment of customizing each marine all over again, and the primaris marines do look dope.

 

I'll bring out my original DW army again eventually (I'm hesitant to start making stormbolter boys, but I *will* dig out all my SB bits and put them aside for now). I definitely want to get more milage out of my bikers after buying a dozen of the DW:O biker to use the special front piece/bolters. But for now, I want to finally commit these primaris guys -- and I get the novelty of a new army without having to buy one!

[Sawtooth]

I want to go all Primaris. I don't think it's necessarily the best way to run Deathwatch, but I think it's the best way to run a pure Primaris force. I've been wanting to run such an army and found other marine rules lacking, but I think the Deathwatch brings out the best in them and covers some of their worst weaknesses. Still no cheap transports but that's a meta thing :P

[LucidNinja]

I'll be doing an almost pure primaris list at some point. I'll kitbash a primaris watchmaster as best rules. Probably using a Custode to start from

[Kisada]

My plan is to go pure DW-Primaris, simply because I prefer the primarines' look to the oldmarines'... Although I might if budget allows it someday add a FW-goodie or two, ideally a Leviathan, FireRaptor and/or Astraeus...

 

I'll add an Inquisitor eventually, maybe as a counts-as-Watchmaster; not sure what else to bother picking up, really.

 

 

I'm not into tournies or anything like that, obviously

 

Deepstriking Deathwatch Leviathan sounds amazing!  

 

I'm going full primaris ... multiple reasons.

1. I don't want another black army, already have Black Templars.

2. I already have a mixed faction primaris army started that has been collecting dust (Indomitus Crusade of Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templar).  To add to the mixed faction feel of DW I will be expanding my initial idea of just the 3 major chapters of Imperial Fists and successors to include other successors such as Celestial Lions and Executioners.

3. I have Black Templar and Imperial Fist smol-marines which I can use to also supplement as smol-DW if I need ... like Imperial Fist sternguard and Black Templar vanguard vets.

[Mobius0288]

I've kinda accepted Primaris as part of DW in my mind, so here's my plan:

 

- HQs - Watchmaster/librairan/chaplain dreadnaught/Captain

 

- 2 Fortis Kill Teams - 1 regular intercessor squad and 1 mixed primaris unit; both used to push for or camp objectives. I do want a reiver (or 2) in it for the shock grenades and combat knife (pistol would be used for tempest shells) , but I don't know if I want an aggressor or inceptor paired with them.

 

- 2-3 Kill Teams - stalker bolter/missile team, combi-plasma team (w/ heavy bolter) or heavy bolter/infernus bolter team (w/ watchmaster), Frag or combi-melta team

 

- Assassination - Vanguard Veterans with Hammers (Blackstar)

 

- Anti-Armor - Ven Dread w/ Lascannons and/or Razorback with Lascannon

 

- Transport - Blackstar, drop pod, deep strike, maybe a rhino

 

- Deep strike - unit of reivers

 

Not sure if it will all fit in a 2k list but that's what I'm shooting for. It's a little lacking in the anti-armor department but I'm hoping to save up my CPs for the tempest rounds and heavy bolter stratagems will help compensate for that, while the Thunder Hammers have some potential should there be no problem characters I need to squish.

 

Don't that I just straight into the storm bolter spam right away because my kill teams are more support/gun line focused. My next step experiment after this will be bikers.... a unit of bikers giving the Sgt a Storm bolter, and maxing a kill team with 3 bikers/2 VV so I can combat squad them into "fall back, fire and charge" unit. It does mean I have to pull back on some of the current kill teams..... but at least they would retain objective secured :)

 

Pretty excited to try some different combinations.

[Mobius0288]

I will also say that HQs are a lot more powerful then they were in the index: Our datasheets got a few more options and our mastercrafted guns got SIA. That totally makes the Chaplain a more legitimate option rather than a cheap HQ choice. I seen a rumor that our Terminator Capt and Librarian got more options, and if the termie librarian gets access to a storm shield, I'm totally giving him the Dominus Aegis relic.

[mjrwaud]

I will also say that HQs are a lot more powerful then they were in the index: Our datasheets got a few more options and our mastercrafted guns got SIA. That totally makes the Chaplain a more legitimate option rather than a cheap HQ choice. I seen a rumor that our Terminator Capt and Librarian got more options, and if the termie librarian gets access to a storm shield, I'm totally giving him the Dominus Aegis relic.

 

It's true that there are quite a few more options available to HQs (my biggest gripe with the index), although some limitations remain.

 

- Chaplains (power armour) can only take pistols (no combi-weapons, storm shields, or other melee weapons) but can take a power fist and/or jump packs

- Chaplains (terminator armour) can only take a combi-weapon

 

- Librarians (power armour) can only take pistols (no combi-weapons or storm shields) but can take a jump pack and pick a force weapon (axe, staff, sword)

- Librarians (terminator armour) can only take a combi-weapon and pick a force weapon (axe, staff, sword)... so no Dominus Aegis

[Mobius0288]

Chaplains and Librarian dont even get regular bolters? But they had them from the index? That don't seem right man...

[mjrwaud]

Chaplains and Librarian dont even get regular bolters? But they had them from the index? That don't seem right man...

 

Nope, no bolters or combi-weapons for Chaplains / Librarians in power armour.

 

See vid (in French) at 31:40  

 

https://youtu.be/pwtwiVULNPY?t=1902

 

The first line under options basically translates to "may replace bolt pistol with one item from the pistol list", which includes bolt, flamer, grav, inferno, plasma

[Drizzt79]

I've got 3 lists till now, I'll share my pure DW one:

 

HQ: Watchmaster, Captain JP (beacon)

 

Fortis Kill team 1: 5intercessor  + 5Hellblasters (assault incinerator), to be deepstriked with the teleportarum stratagem

Fortis Kill team 2: 5 intercessor with stalker rifle

Kill team veteran 1: 4 frag+4 bolter SS, 2 termies (SB+PS), to be deepstriked with the beacon

Kill team veteran 2: cheap 5 men bolters chainswords and a couple of PS...for objective grabbing and flanking

3 model Heavybolter Inceptor squad, anti troop and fast movement for objectives

3 model Plasma inceptor squad, to be deepstriked close to the JP captain together with the kill team veteran 1

2 Venerable dreads: TL lascannons and missile....backline shooting

2 razorbacks: one with TL lascannon, one with TL HB (containing the kill team veteran 2)

3 model Bike squad: for objective grabbing

 

1999pts, looks competitive to me

 

Cant wait to try it 

[Lemondish]

I've got 3 lists till now, I'll share my pure DW one:

 

HQ: Watchmaster, Captain JP (beacon)

 

Fortis Kill team 1: 5intercessor  + 5Hellblasters (assault incinerator), to be deepstriked with the teleportarum stratagem

Fortis Kill team 2: 5 intercessor with stalker rifle

Kill team veteran 1: 4 frag+4 bolter SS, 2 termies (SB+PS), to be deepstriked with the beacon

Kill team veteran 2: cheap 5 men bolters chainswords and a couple of PS...for objective grabbing and flanking

3 model Heavybolter Inceptor squad, anti troop and fast movement for objectives

3 model Plasma inceptor squad, to be deepstriked close to the JP captain together with the kill team veteran 1

2 Venerable dreads: TL lascannons and missile....backline shooting

2 razorbacks: one with TL lascannon, one with TL HB (containing the kill team veteran 2)

3 model Bike squad: for objective grabbing

 

1999pts, looks competitive to me

 

Cant wait to try it 

 

I like this, but I probably won't go with stalker boltrifles as I feel the rapid fire are better. Lots to give up for just 6'' of extra range. Also not sure I'd go with assault plasma on the hellblasters if they're just going to deep strike anyway - the rapid fire would be better. 

[Drizzt79]

 

I've got 3 lists till now, I'll share my pure DW one:

 

HQ: Watchmaster, Captain JP (beacon)

 

Fortis Kill team 1: 5intercessor  + 5Hellblasters (assault incinerator), to be deepstriked with the teleportarum stratagem

Fortis Kill team 2: 5 intercessor with stalker rifle

Kill team veteran 1: 4 frag+4 bolter SS, 2 termies (SB+PS), to be deepstriked with the beacon

Kill team veteran 2: cheap 5 men bolters chainswords and a couple of PS...for objective grabbing and flanking

3 model Heavybolter Inceptor squad, anti troop and fast movement for objectives

3 model Plasma inceptor squad, to be deepstriked close to the JP captain together with the kill team veteran 1

2 Venerable dreads: TL lascannons and missile....backline shooting

2 razorbacks: one with TL lascannon, one with TL HB (containing the kill team veteran 2)

3 model Bike squad: for objective grabbing

 

1999pts, looks competitive to me

 

Cant wait to try it :rolleyes:

 

 

I like this, but I probably won't go with stalker boltrifles as I feel the rapid fire are better. Lots to give up for just 6'' of extra range. Also not sure I'd go with assault plasma on the hellblasters if they're just going to deep strike anyway - the rapid fire would be better.

Regarding stalkers I’m still in doubt, hellblasters with assault incinerator could be good for deepstriking in cover perhaps....but maybe you’re roght, the rapidfire version could be better in most cases

[LucidNinja]

I think the best thing for stalkers is wounding on 2s. That's why I like the idea of the primaris Captain with one and the relic ammo for back field camping

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

I think the relic ammo's only good for hunting for 6+ wound rolls for the mortal wounds. A Storm Bolter or Auto Bolt Rifle is probably better for it.

[Vel'Cona]

Since the entirety of my currently boxed-up DW force is OldMarines, that's how they'll stay.  I started a Primaris army out of C: SM for the new edition and I don't really want to blend them if I can avoid it.  Not that I have any problem whatsoever with folks wanting to do so; I look forward to seeing what sort of interesting Watch Companies come out of the new 'dex :)

[autek mor]

i feel this codex definitely has potential although it may take a bit of allies here and there to balance certain flaws. might take a while before players unlock the right combinations and understand that it is a shooting army. in one battle report i saw a guy use a 5 man veteran squad with three frag cannons try to charge through a tyrannid line which consisted of a wounded swarmlord, two full strength carnifexes and a full strength broodlord.

[Vel'Cona]

might take a while before players unlock the right combinations and understand that it is a shooting army

 

That's something a fair few of Astartes players still need to absorb.  Marines are fluffed to be unkillable monsters in melee but the reality on the table is they die easily in that format and simply don't have the output to make up their cost.  Shooting is pound for pound more efficient and less dangerous for them, and DW in particular need to wipe out units quickly making the shooting phase (where SIA, Frag Cannons and other fringe benefits are most powerful) their pivotal play.  Don't get me wrong, I love a good brawl as much as any gritty veteran but the reality simply doesn't play out on the table.

[autek mor]

 

might take a while before players unlock the right combinations and understand that it is a shooting army

 

That's something a fair few of Astartes players still need to absorb.  Marines are fluffed to be unkillable monsters in melee but the reality on the table is they die easily in that format and simply don't have the output to make up their cost.  Shooting is pound for pound more efficient and less dangerous for them, and DW in particular need to wipe out units quickly making the shooting phase (where SIA, Frag Cannons and other fringe benefits are most powerful) their pivotal play.  Don't get me wrong, I love a good brawl as much as any gritty veteran but the reality simply doesn't play out on the table.

 

 

that is the impression i'm getting from this army. when you shoot something, it MUST be dead to justify the points cost compared to lets say the dark angels who have more units to do this and are a little cheaper in cost. so perhaps maybe at least three twin asscan razorbacks to support teleported primaris squads?