What should "Chapter Tactics" do for vehicles?

[The Unseen]

Assuming GW does the sensible thing, and doesn't leave marines as the only factions in the game with tactics not applying to their vehicles, what should they be?

 

Some factions tactics would function just fine if applied to vehicles, such as Iron Hands fnp, or Salamanders rerolls, others would either be barely worth it on most vehicles, like the White Scars, Blood Angels, Black Templars, or possibly even "OP" when applied in comparison to the others, like Raven Guard, and half of the Ultras trait.

I'd much prefer something more akin to the IG codex, with varying rules for each factions vehicles, to keep them broadly equivalent in strength.

 

And on that note, what are some of the ideas you guys have?

 

I have a few

 

Sallies: Fires of Nocturne: Flamer and Melta weapons on vehicles gain 6" of range

 

Black Templars: Zeolous Machine Spirits: when a vehicle charges, is charged, or makes a heroic intervention, change its Weapon Skill to 3+.

 

Iron Hands, Machine Smiths: vehicles count their remaining wounds as double for the purposes of their damage chart, in addition, when an Iron Hands vehicle is healed, it heals 1 extra wound.

 

Blood Angels: Lucifer Pattern Engines: May advance and fire any weapons as if they were assault weapons.

 

Imperial Fists: Mobile Fortresses: vehicles may fire even if there is an enemy unit within 1" of them, though their target must be said unit.

 

Ravenguard: Camouflaged: Vehicles gain the benefit of cover when they are 25% obscured, rather than 50%.

 

Dark Angels: Defensive Fire: +1 to hit on Overwatch

[redmapa]

Black Templars can be the exception to this, I would personally prefer something like

 

"Unmatched Zeal: Units within 6" of a Black Templar Chaplain add -1AP to their close combat attacks."

 

Or basically anything that might boost their killing power in close combat, tying it to Chaplains seems like a no brainer as its fluffy and would encourage you to take more Chaplains.

[Deathwalker]

What do chaplains have to do with VEHICLES??

 

Unseen, I like all your suggestions except the salamander one, messing with range only creates lots of problems, and you want top apply it to two radically different use weapons in a blanket way would be bad.

 

How about

Promethium inferno. Flamer and melta weapons deal one additional mortal wound on a roll of 4+

[Brother Curses]

As a Templar I’d rather have a rule break than a buff. Being able to move first deploy second as a stratagem would be amazing, and actually make the LRC worth its points.

[The Unseen]

While I understand why my brothers of faith and black armor might wish for something else, that is both

A. Not likely to happen, and

B. Off topic

[Captain Idaho]

Yes it irks me Space Marines are treated differently to other armies.

 

Your Iron Hands one is pretty good and makes sense.

 

But where's the Ultramarines one eh? Grumble grumble.

[Deathwalker]

Yes it irks me Space Marines are treated differently to other armies.

 

Your Iron Hands one is pretty good and makes sense.

 

But where's the Ultramarines one eh? Grumble grumble.

 

Blue ones get a primarch?? :P

[The Unseen]

Yes it irks me Space Marines are treated differently to other armies.

 

Your Iron Hands one is pretty good and makes sense.

 

But where's the Ultramarines one eh? Grumble grumble.

Tbh my head space for thinking of ultras stuff is ruined because I hate their 40k tactics because their objectively both too good and don't fit what ultras should be in my head, mostly because their 30k tactics are perfect imo.

 

Falling back and still shooting seems way more like a White Scars thing, or even an Imperial Fist thing, than an Ultra one.

 

I also couldn't think of anything for the wolves either, maybe an anti-psyker one?

But they don't have a codex, nor have I come up with anything that fits their whole "hunters/warriors" aspect.

[Charlo]

Love the BA one, for starters it would sort out the Baal Predator!

[MARK0SIAN]

BT - Modified smoke launchers. Once per game, instead of firing any weapons, the vehicle may fire a smoke grenade at an enemy unit. That unit may not fire overwatch for the rest of that turn.

[Race Bannon]

For wish-listing, I'm ok with the RG idea :tu:

[AndrewChristlieb]

Just let my tanks squash infantry and I’d be good. There’s no reason a LRC should be stopped by a squad of guardsmen :rolleyes:

[mertbl]

Why do we need our vehicles to do stuff? We can't all have all the things. A price drop would be best, across the board. T4,3+ just ain't what it used to be.

 

 

Raven Guard - that's almost pointless because you need to be in cover before you check for it being obscured. Maybe if it was "50% obscured and that counts as being in cover" we'd be in business.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The BT one must be Land Raider Crusader based.

I would love the ability to fall back from assault and fire. It would then make charging with the Assault launchers actually viable. Charge at the end of your own turn, deal out D3 mortal wounds. Next turn, fall back, unleash rapid firey hell, rinse and repeat. Probably 2CP.

[Captain Idaho]

Let's not get confused with Strategums.

 

***

 

The Astra Millitarum get better boosts than any Chapters. Eldar do too. As do Tyranids. Marines are miles behind and the Chapter Tactics can do with adjustment as part of this.

 

It's a lot of work I guess. Chapters need Tactics that are flavourful yet balanced and like Astra Millitarum probably shouldn't be carbon copies of the infantry/Dreadnought.

 

 

Yes it irks me Space Marines are treated differently to other armies.

Your Iron Hands one is pretty good and makes sense.

But where's the Ultramarines one eh? Grumble grumble.

 

 

Blue ones get a primarch?? :P

If you don't want every Ultramarines player to take Guilliman then we should embrace treating Ultramarines rules with the same consideration as the other Chapters... ;)

 

On a serious note; the Ultramarines one is not that good. Most opponents shoot you to death so falling out of combat is situational.

[Marshal_von_Speer]

The BT one must be Land Raider Crusader based.

I would love the ability to fall back from assault and fire. It would then make charging with the Assault launchers actually viable. Charge at the end of your own turn, deal out D3 mortal wounds. Next turn, fall back, unleash rapid firey hell, rinse and repeat. Probably 2CP.

 

Would be even better if we could disembark from vehicles after they have moved...

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

The BT one must be Land Raider Crusader based.

I would love the ability to fall back from assault and fire. It would then make charging with the Assault launchers actually viable. Charge at the end of your own turn, deal out D3 mortal wounds. Next turn, fall back, unleash rapid firey hell, rinse and repeat. Probably 2CP.

Would be even better if we could disembark from vehicles after they have moved...

Absolutely! For me, apart from the to wound table, disembarking from transports before they’ve moved is the single most stupid rule in all of 8th edition.

[Kallas]

Absolutely! For me, apart from the to wound table, disembarking from transports before they’ve moved is the single most stupid rule in all of 8th edition.

As a special rule for Land Raiders (ie, specific assault vehicles) it'd be fine. But it's a solid way to curtail the Rhino rush. Most Transports, as they are, are fine (with some being a little too good [Wave Serpents] and some being a little too expensive [Rhinos, Devilfish]).

[MARK0SIAN]

 

Absolutely! For me, apart from the to wound table, disembarking from transports before they’ve moved is the single most stupid rule in all of 8th edition.

As a special rule for Land Raiders (ie, specific assault vehicles) it'd be fine. But it's a solid way to curtail the Rhino rush. Most Transports, as they are, are fine (with some being a little too good [Wave Serpents] and some being a little too expensive [Rhinos, Devilfish]).

True, it does stop rhino rush but it’s an absolutely terrible way to move shooty units around, you sacrifice at least a turn of shooting from the unit to do it and in the next turn they count as having moved so incur a penalty on any heavy weapons.

 

I used to think not being able to charge from vehicles that weren’t assault vehicles was really silly and annoying but i would rather go back to that than what we have now.

 

I’d support a change to bring back a modified version of the assault vehicle rule, that units could disembark from dedicated assault vehicles after they move and still charge. In all other vehicles they could get out after it moved but not charge.

 

I mean a land raider is literally meant to charge head first into enemy lines and disgorge its cargo directly into the fray. Not the current situation where it drives up to the enemy, parks, has a cup of tea and then in the next turn it’s passngers get out to assault the enemy who’ve now moved away :)

[Captain Idaho]

A Chapter Tactic shouldn't be limited to a single unit benefiting. The next thing I'd like to add is Black Templars are nothing to do with Mechanised assaults.

 

Black Templars Chapter Tactics on vehicles (not Dreadnoughts) is a hard one I'd need to work on myself as ideas don't come naturally.

[robofish7591]

Maybe Black Templars could have something like "Zealous Machine Spirit: Vehicles always use the movement value from the first bracket, no matter how many wounds it has taken"

 

It would work best with transports, but it is also useful for other vehicles too.

[The Unseen]

@robofish, that sounds a lot more like a White Scars thing than a BT one.

 

@CapIdaho, being able to assault shooty units with your marines, and either force them to give up their shooting by falling back or staying locked in combat, only to fall back and keep shooting yourself is a big deal, not to mention +1 leadership. (Which is mechanically superior to a whole legion tactic for the Word Bearers I might add)

[Deathwalker]

Let's not get confused with Strategums.

 

***

 

The Astra Millitarum get better boosts than any Chapters. Eldar do too. As do Tyranids. Marines are miles behind and the Chapter Tactics can do with adjustment as part of this.

 

It's a lot of work I guess. Chapters need Tactics that are flavourful yet balanced and like Astra Millitarum probably shouldn't be carbon copies of the infantry/Dreadnought.

 

 

Yes it irks me Space Marines are treated differently to other armies.

Your Iron Hands one is pretty good and makes sense.

But where's the Ultramarines one eh? Grumble grumble.

 

Blue ones get a primarch??

If you don't want every Ultramarines player to take Guilliman then we should embrace treating Ultramarines rules with the same consideration as the other Chapters...

 

On a serious note; the Ultramarines one is not that good. Most opponents shoot you to death so falling out of combat is situational.

 

Having a chapter tactic that makes you good in CC, then destroying it because of DS shooters is even more situational if you are just gonna get shot off the board.........

[crazyterran]

Exactly what they do for infantry? -1 to hit, fall back and shoot/charge, 6+++, etc.

 

Why should Marines get to be even more special? The only faction i can think of that gets an additional subfactional rulesfor vehicles is Guard.

 

Not all tactics are equal for the same units. Obviously the scars one woule kind of suck for vehicles, but thems the breaks.

[Captain Idaho]

Tyranids, Eldar (all factions), Astra Millitarum, Necrons, Tau... they all get free bonuses for their vehicles. The argument here is that Marines (Chaos too) should get the same.

 

It's debatable of course whether Marines should get additional rules for their vehicles like Astra Millitarum. I personally don't mind considering it's consistent with Imperial armies but can take it or leave it.

 

Black Templars need a different rule for their vehicles though as rerolling charges for a Whirlwind is useless! I like the idea that they always get to use the top bracket for their move no matter how damaged. It helps the most amount of vehicles without being out of character or unbalanced.