What should "Chapter Tactics" do for vehicles?

[MARK0SIAN]

A Chapter Tactic shouldn't be limited to a single unit benefiting. The next thing I'd like to add is Black Templars are nothing to do with Mechanised assaults.

 

Black Templars Chapter Tactics on vehicles (not Dreadnoughts) is a hard one I'd need to work on myself as ideas don't come naturally.

I’d have to disagree about the Templars not being anything to do with mechanised assaults. The Black Templars invented the Land Raider Crusader, specifically for mechanised assaults to break defensive lines. They’re very much a chapter that uses mechanised assaults as part of their tactics. That’s why I think the chapter tactics for their vehicles should reflect this.

[Ishagu]

Ultramarine vehicles tactic: Vehicles add one to their ballistic skill when targeting a unit that has been fire upon by another unit.

 

But I think leaving combat and shooting would be better :-D

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Everyone forgets that Templars are not just a foot slogging assault army. Sometimes we like to put out feet up and grind our enemies under the tracks of our many tanks.

 

For me, our flagship tank, the Crusader basically sucks in this edition. It doesn't work well because the game forces you to do things in an order which it isn't designed to work with. Ideally the LRC should move into rapid fire range, disgorge the lads to the front and sides whilst shooting to soften up the enemy the troops will then charge. The troops would then provide an assault screen enabling you to pull the LRC back and act as a firebase without risking being assaulted.

 

Instead, the game forces you to move without disgorging troops, shoot and then hope nothing charges you before the next turn.

And I really don't understand the Frag Assault Launchers anymore, they work great on Ironclads and Centurions. But unless I was really desperate and it was perhaps the last turn of the game I wouldn't sacrifice a turn of laying down 28 S4 and 12 S6 shots just for the chance to get maybe three mortal wounds.

 

For me, our vehicle chapter tactic should allow BTs to use LRCs as we designed them. This would mean allowing them to move, then disembark troops.

 

Anyway, real Templars don't take Whirlwinds.

[Captain Idaho]

 

A Chapter Tactic shouldn't be limited to a single unit benefiting. The next thing I'd like to add is Black Templars are nothing to do with Mechanised assaults.

Black Templars Chapter Tactics on vehicles (not Dreadnoughts) is a hard one I'd need to work on myself as ideas don't come naturally.

I’d have to disagree about the Templars not being anything to do with mechanised assaults. The Black Templars invented the Land Raider Crusader, specifically for mechanised assaults to break defensive lines. They’re very much a chapter that uses mechanised assaults as part of their tactics. That’s why I think the chapter tactics for their vehicles should reflect this.

It should reflect their character and modus operandi. Black Templars rend their foes apart with blood and blade, grit and determination, faith and zeal.

 

They don't ram people with their tanks or charge out of vehicles any more than Ultramarines do. Well maybe they recklessly ram more often but it's not what they're known for.

 

That's all I'm saying. I want Black Templars to be something special. A real close combat force with punch. Our Codex needs changing of course to reflect many problems but Black Templars could do with something new. Better than vehicles charging fools!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

What with Tank Shock being a thing of the past, aside from Dreadnoughts, who willingly charges things with vehicles anymore anyway? It used to be epicly useful, I remember one WD battle report, Phil Kelly's Ulthwé vs Abaddon's boys, his Wave Serpent, down to no weapons due to damage, and having nothing left to transport charged the Black Legion lines and the morale impact broke them.

 

On the whole, I like what 8th did to vehicles, I just don't understand why they are so poor in close combat. Surely a Vindicator with a dozer blade charging into something slow and heavy (like Chaos Terminators) is going to hit more often than the WS would suggest!

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

A Chapter Tactic shouldn't be limited to a single unit benefiting. The next thing I'd like to add is Black Templars are nothing to do with Mechanised assaults.

Black Templars Chapter Tactics on vehicles (not Dreadnoughts) is a hard one I'd need to work on myself as ideas don't come naturally.

I’d have to disagree about the Templars not being anything to do with mechanised assaults. The Black Templars invented the Land Raider Crusader, specifically for mechanised assaults to break defensive lines. They’re very much a chapter that uses mechanised assaults as part of their tactics. That’s why I think the chapter tactics for their vehicles should reflect this.

It should reflect their character and modus operandi. Black Templars rend their foes apart with blood and blade, grit and determination, faith and zeal.

 

They don't ram people with their tanks or charge out of vehicles any more than Ultramarines do. Well maybe they recklessly ram more often but it's not what they're known for.

 

That's all I'm saying. I want Black Templars to be something special. A real close combat force with punch. Our Codex needs changing of course to reflect many problems but Black Templars could do with something new. Better than vehicles charging fools!

Oh I agree totally with you, perhaps I wasn’t clear what I meant. I don’t want the land raider to ram, I want the guys inside to be able to disembark and charge after it has moved. That would help them get choppy choppy really well.

 

I totally agree on wanting BT to be a hard hitting cc force. Just think the way disembarking currently works is a huge obstacle to that, particularly for dedicated assault vehicles like the land raider crusader.

[Captain Idaho]

The Land Raider should have that rule as a matter of course for definite.

 

BT Chapter Tactics don't fit their vehicles whereas the other Chapters kinda do. Any ideas?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

What with Tank Shock being a thing of the past, aside from Dreadnoughts, who willingly charges things with vehicles anymore anyway?

Lots of people. Rhinos, for example, are commonly cited as being useful for absorbing overwatch so that an infantry unit can charge without worrying about taking casualties on the way in.

[Claws and Effect]

Exactly what they do for infantry? -1 to hit, fall back and shoot/charge, 6+++, etc.

 

Why should Marines get to be even more special? The only faction i can think of that gets an additional subfactional rulesfor vehicles is Guard.

 

Not all tactics are equal for the same units. Obviously the scars one woule kind of suck for vehicles, but thems the breaks.

Sure, I'll be ECSTATIC if my Fire Raptor gets a -2 to hit it because it's Raven Guard.

 

The point being here is that Marines are the ONLY faction whose tactics don't apply to vehicles. Marines in general are not in a good place right now.

[Ipsen]

What with Tank Shock being a thing of the past, aside from Dreadnoughts, who willingly charges things with vehicles anymore anyway?

 

Just me then? Every time I field my rhinos they end up charging stuff. Remember a game also where a predator ended up ramming a land raider. Don't ask how they got in range to do so, but with no other AT shooting left on the board neither could kill the other in CQ and neither wanted to retreat and give the other the first shot. Was pretty funny.

[justicarius6]

With the new Deathwatch codex reinforcing the fact that "Chapter Tactics" aren't going to be available to our vehicles I think this will remain wishful thinking for a long time yet. :(

[Dracos]

Ultramarine vehicles tactic: Vehicles add one to their ballistic skill when targeting a unit that has been fire upon by another unit.

But I think leaving combat and shooting would be better :-D

UM Marker Lights? . . . heretic lol ;)

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think the two replies about charging with tanks almost prove my point. Vehicle charging isn't an effective tactic in the way that you expect it to kill units, or cause a morale panic. The two uses are an Overwatch sponge, (which only Rhinos are useful for as every other tank is more useful shooting than it is locked in combat.) Or as a last ditch effort in a vain hope of causing an unlikely wound.

In short, it's a useful trick, but not more. Not like it once was.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Also good for locking down units you'd rather not be shooting by forcing them to either remain in combat or Fall Back. I even used a Razorback once as a physical roadblock.