Dealing with high invul save units

[Akrim]

As per the title, what do you find efficient in dealing with high invulnerable save units (ex Dreadknight Grandmasters, Wraiths, Lychguard)?

 

Sometimes a Deathstrike missile with Votex looks not half bad.

[duz_]

FRFSRF :D

Lots of small arm's fire is the best way to deal with high invul's! 
Use the high AP stuff on things that matter

 

High Damage weapons can also help, but they're definitely hit or miss depeding if they make their save.

If they fail and you roll a 1 you better be spending that CP on a re-roll! ;) 

[Prot]

Can you get an allied Libby for Null Zone in there?

[Halfpint100]

If they roll enough saves, they will fail some

[FallenSoldiers]

Gotta echo everyone else... weight of fire.

 

Mortars are nice for that too.

[Kinstryfe]

Weight of fire. Speaking from the other side of the table with experience from my Custodes army while the big stuff can devastate you if you get lucky, it's massed small stuff that I fear. I'm going to fail half the Invulnerable saves or 1/6 the regular saves I take. So one lascannon /could/ kill one model, but a hundred shots coming at me tends to do a lot more. So basically shoot it until it's dead.

 

I'm also starting to experiment with snipers. I'm thinking they may be useful for picking off stuff once it's near death with some lucky rolls.

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, spam fire has long been Guard's close ally. If you're struggling then as mentioned some allied help to remove invulnerables is your best bet - but don't forget Mortal Wounds ignore them so some psykers of your own will help :tu:

[zero88]

Autocannons and Bullgryn Mauls.. anything with not much AP but multiple damage makes every fail hurt that much more

[librisrouge]

A couple of primaris psykers can help with a smite or two (plus maelstrom) each turn.

[allegedlynerdy]

I'd also give ratlings a go. Mortal wounds on 6's is something at least.

[Wassa]

Mortal Wounds:

Ratlings, Primaris Psyker with Maelstrom, Catachans Vicious Traps Strategem, Deathstrike (probably wont fire), Preliminary Bombardment (probably wont hit).

 

 

Spam fire:

Punisher cannon (40 shots!), FRFSRF, Grenadiers Strategem, Mortars, Wyverns, Mordian Volley Fire Strategem.

 

 

Assassins:

Assassins have abilities that either deal mortal wounds or ignore invulnerable saves.

[Akrim]

Thanks for all the replies, as far as massed fire goes Ive just found it to be lacking against these sort of targets due to the associated T5 or higher;
 

Massed S3 - lasguns needing 5-6s to wound and no AP really lowers its ability to force numerous saves.
 

Massed S5 - say Punisher (even w/ Tank Commander @ BS3) - 40 shots - 26.68 hits - 13.34 wounds minus 66.6% w/ +3 saves = 4.45 final wounds. You stand to kill 1 Wraith or 2 Lychguard. Against something with +2 armor the 0 AP you would be lucky to stick even 1 wound with spam fire.

Massed S7+ - Looking at substantially less shots, but higher AP & D - lets say 3 HWS = 9 Autocannons - 18 shots - even go generous 11 hits - minus 33.3% is 7.443 wounds minus 66.6% with +3 saves = 2.4 x D2 wounds (4-6 final wounds). Not terrible I suppose, but dependent on a weak platform.

Massed High S / D6 Damage - Say even 6 Lascannons - generous 4 hits - generous 4 wounds - 1.36 wounds after save - 3-6 Damage average off the D6s. Seems on par with Massed S7.

TLDR; This is hypothetical math of course - but based on this and just what Ive experienced I find firepower woefully inefficient at dealing with these units. The one constant I see among these units seems to be low-no psychic defenses. Psychic mortal wound spamming might be the more efficient way of dealing with these invulnerable units.

Prots Librarian Null Zone suggestion looks appealing for competitive play, good delivery system by bike or jump pack, reasonable price. Supplement with AM mortal wound powers prehaps.

 

Deathstrike would be such a great option if they had not borked the firing rolls. Turn 2 shot would be a miracle, shooting on turn 3 (if youre lucky) is nonsense for the price.

[allegedlynerdy]

I've shot a Contemptor to death with massed infantry fire. FRSR+Bring it Down are really powerful.

[GuardDaddy]

I'd echo the points made above regarding firepower.  Invul save removes the benefit of high AP weapons, so in theory low AP, but high damage once save failed, is best.

 

Shooting wise...

Heavy Bolters/autocannons should be solid and are cheap.

 

Sniper rifles are good upgrades whenver you aren't using a special weapon option - 2 pts is hardly anything.

Mortal wounds - sniper rifle - for example I use a command squad with a standard and 3 snipers. Also as I use vets with a lascannon so they are normally static I use 3 sniper rifles in those squads as well. 

 

 

Other ideas:

 

Tar pit. I like to take a battalion of troops with no upgrades (6 - 240pts) and push them really aggressively forward blocking up channels of movement, drawing fire and taking charges. 10x 1 wound models are surprisingly irritating to kill as many elite options have high damage attacks, which are wasted on single wound models. If you are trapping these units for even one turn the impact is huge. Its a classic example of using guard numbers to counter high cost special abilities

[Withershadow]

I think it’s always worth giving those models a plasmagun given it’s discounted cost on BS4 troops. It will pretty much always pay for itself and will force your opponent to completely kill each unit before it’s main threat is removed.