Kimbo Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Hi! So....my brother is getting into the hobby aswell as I...and he is interested in the demons!..ive brought with me some questions that i need help with! - Can the demon factions(khorne, Nurgle and so on..) be played solo to good effect? Which are good or bad? - is it better to mix all demons? I know that he got a thing for the Nurgle guys especially.. And...when you have answered these questions..how would you start that army out if you were a beginner, but still wanted some Power? (Like 1000p that can be expanded to 2000p?) Side note: if you have ANY knowledge regarding the faction that you think a beginner should know....please share! Would mean alot! Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 So people tend to play mono god for thematic purposes only, but tactically having more options is better. Detachments gain bonuses for being mono god so id suggest its good to focus on specific factions a little so you can build mono god detachments. Id say Slannesh would be the toughest mono faction army, personally id say tzeentch or nurgle are the strongest, largely because they have access to cheap troop slot fillers. If he might mix in chaos marine bits then these lists can be very strong (there are some extremely good thousand sons/ tzeentch lists). Id say a start collecting box is always a good buy, a daemon prince (or more) is useful and powerful for any faction. Nurglings are one of my favourite units in the game right now for usefulness, even in non nurgle armies. Probably the thing for a beginner to understand is that a pure chaos list has limitef options for shooting, especially that are effective and this makes it a challenge to deal with hard to reach units (e.g. flyers). I really struggle to shoot down planes with daemon ranged weapons and witout CSM allies would always want to include some hard hitting units with the fly keyword (daemon princes are probably best but screamers, bloodthirsters or a lord of change can work) The bloodletter banner stratagem is extremely useful and if you keep the unit size to 20 the unit is only 1 cp to put in reserve (2 with banner upgrade). Skarbrand and the fiend of slannesh abilities to prevent units from falling back are very interesting too. I also really like two units of 30 pink horrors plus characters whih put on 180 shots at 18". Hope this helps! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/#findComment-5078093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 Wow thanks dude! Btw lets say he goes for Nurgle. Any tip on a 1000p list that can easily be expandera to 2k? What are the real winners with Nurgle? (Units,stratagems,rules?) We do not play super competitive..but i am curious what you mean by adding in chaos marines? Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/#findComment-5078101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 So chaos marine detachments or for nurgle lets say Death Guard. There are quite a few units for these that have the daemon keyword and can be affected by all daemon abilites and powers (just not stratagems). Obliterators, possessed, warp talons, bloat drones, helldrakes and the plagueburst crawler are probably the obvious ones. Especially for nurgle as the daemon loci affects their shooting - and CSM/DG have a strategem for +1 to wound so obliterators near a herald can be powerful. The death guard bloat drones with the flamers are very nast and of course theres mortarion too who is a nurgle daemon. I would say start with a DP, nurglings and some plaguebearers to build a battallion detachment. All three herald variants are useful too and the feculant gnarlmaw is very good for its points (if playing friendly games its an easy thing to proxy/ find an alternative model for - its a tree). Expanding up a great unclean one with a bell is great for healing, particularly multiwound units like beasts, plague toads or obliterators. Using several units of oblitorators, a daemon prince, a great unclean one and a tree seems to be a fairly popular power list at the mo. Im not a big fan of the soul grinder, but i find nurgle furies very useful for their points (if interested in alt. Models mantic have a great option for these). Plague drones are quite useful for their points too, but also not heavy hitters. Nurgle is good for synergies and buffs, which worth careful reading, some highlights: One of the heralds lets you roll two dice for morale and pick the lowest. This is good near plaguebearers as it increases your chance of getting a 1 and healing with the banner. A comp version is the ridden forgeworld plague toads for the same reason. The gnarlmaw lets nearby units run and charge and gives cover with +2 to saves for infantry. This can make units surprisingly quick for nurgle. I.e. plaguebearers with an instrument, the tree and the herald that gives them +2 move can move 7, run D6+1 and still charge 2D6+1 for an average total threat range of 19.5. Possessed which are movement 7 anyway work much the same way. The trees cover bonus is great on CSM stuff in armour, notably possed (3+ armour) and oblits (2+ armour). So adding +2 to oblit saving throws means they can get hit by a weapon with -2 ap and still have a 2+! It also gives plaguebearers a 4+ which is nice, and plaguebearers are very tough in large units with the -1 to hit (-2 with spell). In terms of strategems i think pure nurgle daemons are a bit of a miss, the banner upgrade is okay. If using CSM veterans of the long war is probably the one thats most useful, especially combined with virulent blessing, the loci or blades of putrefaction from death guard Nurglings are worth a mention without any buffs, just because of how useful they are vangarding objectives or tying up shooters. I really like epidemius, but his buff works best in larger games so maybe thats more something to think about later. In terms of the most insane thing you could achieve with nurgle (not saying its practical just illustrating how much you can synergise with other factions as you grow): 20 death guard possessed, near a herald with the loci benefit, with epidemius buffs stacked to the max, targeted by prescience, warptime, virulent blessing, blades of putrifaction, miasma of pestilence, putrescent vitality, the veterans of the long war stratagem and near the tree: Would be toughness 6 and have 40 wounds with a 1+ armour save and 5+ invuln (whilst near the tree) Can move and run twice (with warp time) and still charge (avg. Total move and charge of 30" Would be hitting on 2+ rerolling Would be at strength 8 Would add 3 to wound rolls anything toughness 15 or less on 2s On a 4+ to wound would be damage 3 and would do a bonus mortal wound On a 3+ would be damage 2 Have d3 attacks each with -2 rend, this could be +1 with epidimius or even +2 wih fabius bile. Against imperials a 5+ to hit would generate an additional attack If you work it all out and if you rolled a 3 for the attacks and had the +2 above for 5 attacks then youd average enough damage to kill 10 imperial knights per swing!!! Thats obviously silly, but hopefully highlights how stacking a few buffs can make the nurgle units work much harder! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/#findComment-5078159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Sorry forgot to say on daemon strategems, the nurgle specific ones arent great but the +1 invulnerable save is really useful as is the deepstrike one. The deepstrike combos well with an instrument too for an 8" charge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/#findComment-5078168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I would agree that Nurgle or Tzeentch are the strongest with Khorne in 3rd. They can be played on their own but also lend themselves well to bring allied with Heretic Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/#findComment-5078223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 I would recommend to start with just 1 god and expand later on. The Start Collecting boxes are realy good, you could easily buy 3x Start Collecting Nurgle without wasting money. Add a Prince with wings and a Spoilpox and there is your solid base. 1 Prince 1 Poxbringer 1 Spoilpox 2x3 Nurglings 30 Plaguebearers with Icon and Instrument 3x3 Drones with Instrument 1004 Points in total. Add more Nurgle or a second god to taste. Or go for CSM allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/#findComment-5078783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 Thanks for all The Great replies! In my head, about 80% demon army and 20% range firepowe both looks good and plays good, right? Demons have quite the hard time against tanks?...how would you fill that roll with allies? A chaos CSM det with preds? Death guard tank? What have you used? Cheers,.Kim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347150-a-new-demon-player-with-some-questions/#findComment-5084595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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