Gibbous Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Is there any reason why I couldn't give the Dagger of Tu'sakh to a Ministorum Priest, taking Bullgryn's as my infantry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 The errata document adds a rule that the relic can only be given to an infantry officer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 So you can take Ogryns with an Officer of the Fleet. Because reasons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 By strict RAW it is unclear whether the dagger can be used at all. There is no unit that has the "INFANTRY OFFICER" keyword, but several have the "INFANTRY" keyword and the "OFFICER" keyword Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 By strict RAW it is unclear whether the dagger can be used at all. There is no unit that has the "INFANTRY OFFICER" keyword, but several have the "INFANTRY" keyword and the "OFFICER" keyword Well, if we're going by strict RAW, the Assault rule (on ranged weapons) doesn't actually work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 What's wrong with the assault weapon rule? Lack of capitalization and boldface type of ASSAULT? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 What's wrong with the assault weapon rule? Lack of capitalization and boldface type of ASSAULT? The problem is that it doesn't actually work within the order of operations in the shooting phase. Assault - "A model with an Assault weapon can fire it even if it Advanced earlier that turn." Shooting phase: 1) Choose unit to shoot with (cannot pick a unit that Advanced or Fell Back). 2) Choose Targets. 3) Choose Ranged weapons. 4) Resolve Attacks. In step 1, the shooting player is unable to pick any unit that Advanced (or Fell Back). And the Assault rule does not override this. Note that the Assault rule refers to models and Assault weapons. However, step 1 refers to units, not models, and weapons don't even come into it. Hence, even if the unit contains an Assault weapon, you're not allowed to pick it to shoot with in the first place. The Assault rule wouldn't actually come into effect until step 3, which is far too late (you're not allowed to pick the unit so you'll never reach step 3). Now, you could reasonably argue that you should be able to pick a unit to shoot with if it has an Assault weapon in it. Okay, but that just creates a new problem. See, step 1 is also the 'gateway' step - once you pass it, there's nothing preventing the squad from shooting with all its weapons (not just the Assault ones). Now, obviously no one actually plays it that way, since we all know how it's supposed to work. But it's still example of atrocious wording that, following strict RAW, is completely nonfunctional. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Gents, this is about the relic dagger, not finer points of the rules in general. Feel free to open a thread in Amicus or the OR if you feel it needs to be discussed. Although I suspect we have already reached the conclusion of this thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Can you use the Dagger with Ogryns in the first place? The Officer and the unit he takes with him must be from the same Regement. But Ogyrns don't have a regiment Keyword they are Militarum Auxilla So this wouldn't work anyway? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 They have to be part of the same regiment only if the officer has a regiment (weird wording.) Since the OotF has not regiment, he can take any infantry unit with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5078991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 The Officer of the Fleet does not have the Officer keyword; his keyword is Officer of the Fleet . The Company and Platoon Commanders have Officer . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5079184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 The Officer of the Fleet does not have the Officer keyword; his keyword is Officer of the Fleet . The Company and Platoon Commanders have Officer . Only in a GW rulebook could an Officer of the Fleet not count as an Officer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5079278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSoldiers Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 The Officer of the Fleet does not have the Officer keyword; his keyword is Officer of the Fleet . The Company and Platoon Commanders have Officer . But he does have <Officer>. He has both <Officer> and <Officer of the Fleet>. I just looked in my Codex. <Character> <infantry> <Officer><Officer of the Fleet> are all there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5079392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Not really. The 'Officer' keyword is just there, just before the 'Officer of the Fleet' keyword... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5079393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Ah! Sorry - had referred to the Index, in which the OotF doesn’t have the Officer keyword. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5079801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 They have to be part of the same regiment only if the officer has a regiment (weird wording.) Since the OotF has not regiment, he can take any infantry unit with him. To build on this, it's important to note that the OotF can bring ANY infantry unit in your army with them. That includes things like Kataphron Destroyers. If it's in your army, even in a different detachment, even if it's a different faction, you can bring it in with an Officer of the Fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347159-the-bullgryn-dagger/#findComment-5079887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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