The Bullgryn Dagger

[Gibbous]

Is there any reason why I couldn't give the Dagger of Tu'sakh to a Ministorum Priest, taking Bullgryn's as my infantry?

[Quixus]

The errata document adds a rule that the relic can only be given to an infantry officer.

[librisrouge]

So you can take Ogryns with an Officer of the Fleet.

 

Because reasons.

[Quixus]

By strict RAW it is unclear whether the dagger can be used at all. There is no unit that has the "INFANTRY OFFICER" keyword, but several have the "INFANTRY" keyword and the "OFFICER" keyword

[TheShredder]

By strict RAW it is unclear whether the dagger can be used at all. There is no unit that has the "INFANTRY OFFICER" keyword, but several have the "INFANTRY" keyword and the "OFFICER" keyword

 

Well, if we're going by strict RAW, the Assault rule (on ranged weapons) doesn't actually work. 

[Quixus]

What's wrong with the assault weapon rule? Lack of capitalization and boldface type of ASSAULT?

[TheShredder]

What's wrong with the assault weapon rule? Lack of capitalization and boldface type of ASSAULT?

 

The problem is that it doesn't actually work within the order of operations in the shooting phase.

 

Assault - "A model with an Assault weapon can fire it even if it Advanced earlier that turn." 

 

Shooting phase:

1) Choose unit to shoot with (cannot pick a unit that Advanced or Fell Back). 

2) Choose Targets.

3) Choose Ranged weapons. 

4) Resolve Attacks.

 

In step 1, the shooting player is unable to pick any unit that Advanced (or Fell Back). And the Assault rule does not override this. Note that the Assault rule refers to models and Assault weapons. However, step 1 refers to units, not models, and weapons don't even come into it. Hence, even if the unit contains an Assault weapon, you're not allowed to pick it to shoot with in the first place.

 

The Assault rule wouldn't actually come into effect until step 3, which is far too late (you're not allowed to pick the unit so you'll never reach step 3). 

 

Now, you could reasonably argue that you should be able to pick a unit to shoot with if it has an Assault weapon in it. Okay, but that just creates a new problem. See, step 1 is also the 'gateway' step - once you pass it, there's nothing preventing the squad from shooting with all its weapons (not just the Assault ones).

 

 

Now, obviously no one actually plays it that way, since we all know how it's supposed to work. But it's still example of atrocious wording that, following strict RAW, is completely nonfunctional.

[duz_]

Gents, this is about the relic dagger, not finer points of the rules in general.

Feel free to open a thread in Amicus or the OR if you feel it needs to be discussed.

 

Although I suspect we have already reached the conclusion of this thread.

[domsto]

Can you use the Dagger with Ogryns in the first place?

The Officer and the unit he takes with him must be from the same Regement.

But Ogyrns don't have a regiment Keyword they are Militarum Auxilla

So this wouldn't work anyway?

[librisrouge]

They have to be part of the same regiment only if the officer has a regiment (weird wording.) Since the OotF has not regiment, he can take any infantry unit with him.

[Plasmablasts]

The Officer of the Fleet does not have the Officer keyword; his keyword is Officer of the Fleet . The Company and Platoon Commanders have Officer .

[TheShredder]

The Officer of the Fleet does not have the Officer keyword; his keyword is Officer of the Fleet . The Company and Platoon Commanders have Officer .

 

Only in a GW rulebook could an Officer of the Fleet not count as an Officer. 

[FallenSoldiers]

The Officer of the Fleet does not have the Officer keyword; his keyword is Officer of the Fleet . The Company and Platoon Commanders have Officer .

 

But he does have <Officer>. He has both <Officer> and <Officer of the Fleet>. I just looked in my Codex.

 

<Character> <infantry> <Officer><Officer of the Fleet> are all there.

[Feral_80]

Not really. The 'Officer' keyword is just there, just before the 'Officer of the Fleet' keyword...

[Plasmablasts]

Ah! Sorry - had referred to the Index, in which the OotF doesn’t have the Officer keyword.

[Tirak]

They have to be part of the same regiment only if the officer has a regiment (weird wording.) Since the OotF has not regiment, he can take any infantry unit with him.

 

To build on this, it's important to note that the OotF can bring ANY infantry unit in your army with them. That includes things like Kataphron Destroyers. If it's in your army, even in a different detachment, even if it's a different faction, you can bring it in with an Officer of the Fleet.