Ork Tanks? Were they ever a thing?

[Kaldoth]

So, I just have a lore question for the fellow Ork players here.  Were Ork tanks ever a thing?

 

When I say "Ork tanks," I want to put emphasis on the word "Ork."  I know about Ork looted tanks, battlewagons with tank sized kannons on them, etc.  But what about specifically ORK tanks?  I'm an actual tank commander, so when I think of a tank, I think of the things that differentiate a German Leopard and an American Abrams, or an Israeli Merkava and a Russian T 72.  So, did Orks ever come up with their very own Tank design?  IE, the turret, hull, tracks, roadwheels, optics, main gun and breach, machine guns, etc completely original to Orks?  Or have they always just looted the other tanks that were around?

 

Cheers!

 

-Kal

[FlamingDeth]

In theory they can and there are (or were, I haven't checked recently) a variety of forge world offerings in that regard, such as the big trakks, killburstas, battle fortresses, etc. I don’t think that there were ever any non-looted ork main battle tanks in the regular ork codex.

[toaae]

Yes. Krakendoomcool's latest post talks about the Kill Krusha tank, and Forgeworld sells the Kill Bursta and Kill Blasta tanks, as well as a Grot Mega-Tank and Grot Tanks.

 

 

It's a shame we haven't gotten a plastic, Citadel battle tank yet (that's my #1 wish, even more than a new Ghaz!), but there is support for Orks designing and using their own tanks.

[Noeh]

Grot tanks and grot mega tanks could arrrrrrguably still be "looted"..but only in the sense that they take random scrap and make tanks out of it. But they're still ork made tanks in the end.

[N1SB]

I'm an actual tank commander, so when I think of a tank, I think of the things that differentiate a German Leopard and an American Abrams, or an Israeli Merkava and a Russian T 72.  So, did Orks ever come up with their very own Tank design?  IE, the turret, hull, tracks, roadwheels, optics, main gun and breach, machine guns, etc completely original to Orks?

 

Appreciating you're an actual tank commander and a 40k veteran besides, I think the answer from your experienced perspective is: no.

 

Ork "tanks" are, in comparison to everything else they make, really an adoption/adaptation of what they've seen other races use, like you say.  If they didn't actually loot another faction's tank, they certain got the idea of tanks from them, even if it's "oooh, dat ting's got a lot of dakka, I'll give all my teef if you make me one of dem tings!"

 

I'll qualify that with a comparison.  Ork Stompas (or Gorka/Morkanauts) are NOT an adaptation of things what Orks've seen other races use.  They're not Orks thinking they should have their own Knight Titan.  The concept of Stompas are so deeply ingrained in the Ork psyche that it's like in their DNA.  The earlier editions of 40k described how Mekboyz would just all feel this urge to build a Stompa, then gather with others of their kind to join in this great spiritual work instinctively.

 

+++++

 

To everyone else, I totally agree that Orks scratch-build their own tanks, I run an Ork Armoured Krumpany myself, but even if they're not looted their derivative.  But for someone who operates tanks, know them and their lineage back to front, tanks are definitely not as native to them as something like Stompas (or bikes) are IMHO.

[Magos Takatus]

In the old Epic system there were various Ork built tanks with increasingly silly names but I believe they are now just considered alternate builds for Battlewagons.

 

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Epic_Orks_Part_One_-_Collectors_Guide

 

I would really like to see a dedicated Ork tank kit. If it was as versatile as the Battlewagon I'd be happy.

[Warhead01]

Ork tanks that I first remember were based on the original battle wagon and kinda wild by modern model standards. Like rolling shacks with kannons. As far as rules from back then I haven't a clue. there were a lot of pictures in the second edition books with models that were older than the ones I was able to get at the time. GW's move to metal Marines vs plastics on First edition. I can only imagine that those tanks had first edition "house rules" and were probably based a bit around epic vehicles from about the same time(Not for sure on the dates.) 
But this was back in 96'-97' for me. 
Orks tanks as far s I can guess would have been completely destructive as we'd expect.  Unfortunately with our limited weapons options I can't bring myself to field a battle wagon blistering with guns as a tank.  Which a sad. 

I have thought about getting a FW tank but haven't gone past thinking about it, I haven't even looked to see what they might do on the table top. I haven't felt the need to play a game larger than 2000 points this edition so far and don't know the points for things like the kill tank.

[Krakendoomcool]

Well done Flameboy thats a great resource for Epic Orks! There is a great variety of Epic Ork tanks and various other vehicles.

 

The battlewagon does seem to fulfil the role in regular 40k.

 

The gobsmasha is a bit more tank like. This did have a datasheet in 2nd edition 40k i think.

 

Ork tanks are great. I would love an Ork tank kit. I don't really think thats happening at all though. A return of Looted tanks would be great too, but I also doubt that will happen.

 

In game terms the Big Trakk is very versatile and has an absolute ton of options still in 8th edition so that is a great place to base all your made up tanks and looted tanks.

[Magos Takatus]

Oh, here's a bit of Ork trivia by the way:

 

While Electronic Arts were busy defiling the bones of the Command and Conquer franchise they decided to turn it into a free-to-play browser game. The game produced some unused concept art which happened to be really familiar to the Ork Bonecruncha tank. So, here's a page linking to a nice piece of art that is basically an Ork tank. http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Grinder_(Tiberium_Alliances)

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, given how the Orks work, the answer to this will always be "no", regardless of what the item in question is, given that Orks don't work to recognized patterns or styles. An Ork vehicle is always a trukk, which just means an engine-propelled vehicle that carries boyz, until it gets big enough that it's agreed to be a battle-wagon. Even Grot Tanks etc aren't really a standardised pattern of vehicle, they're just an armoured vehicle made by the Grots for their own use, made from whatever materials they have to hand. Even Stompa/Gargantz aren't really constructed in any organized way, they're made stream-of-consciousness style, by Orks moved by the Waaagh energy building within them.

 

This is why so many Ork vehicles use looted parts, or build off a looted vehicle, because fundamentally, all Ork vehicles aren't built off a schematic, or made by an Ork deciding to build a Kill-bursta. They're made by a Mek deciding he wants to make a ded killy trukk, wiv loadza gunz on it, and plenty o' room for da boyz. Oh, and da Boss is a Bad Moon, so he'd better put a big Bad Moon glyph on the front, so everybody knows who owns it. When it comes to putting a big gun on it, he decides that zappy stuff is cool, so he tries to make a generator of some kind, and wires it up to some sparky bitz he stuck along the gun barrel, because that feels like it should make a gun nice and zappy and loud. He's still got the front half of one of those Land Raiders that his burna boyz salvaged for him, so he'll bolt that on the front to hold some boyz in, to save some time. Bolt a few extra guns on it here and there, so it's got more dakka, and he declares it done.

End result? The Warboss comes in and says "you'z made a good Battlewagon for me".

 

A battlewagon is just an oversized trukk, whether it's based on a looted vehicle at its core, or is entirely newly constructed. A Kill-bursta is just an Ork wagon with a gun that is too large to just call a kannon. There's no Ork tanks because there's no Ork design, just good, old-fashioned Orkish inspiration.

[FlamingDeth]

That sounds like semantics. While most ork land vehicles are wagons they certainly aren’t all trukks. Buggies certainly aren’t trukks. I also don’t think I’ve heard of an ork referencing a killbursta as a trukk or a battle wagon. Also, even if an ork isn’t calling it a tank, if an admech magos sees an ork armored vehicle that has tracks and a giant turret weapon he’s probably going to call it a tank, even if the design isn’t standardized.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That would just be because there's basically nothing written about Kill-bursta's. There is, however, tons of writing about how non-standardized all Ork vehicles are, something that is diametrically opposed to the concept of a specific design of Ork tank.

When you actually get down to it, the only thing that separates a buggy from a trukk or a battlewagon is size. If it's a small vehicle with weapons, it's a buggy. If it's larger, then it's a trukk/. Larger still, it's a battle-wagon. Larger still, it's a battle-fortress. Within each of those very loose classes, there's an infinite amount of variation. Is it enclosed? Where's the engine? Is it a combustion engine, or is it squig-powered, or something even more esoteric? What weapons does it have, and where are they mounted? Does it have transport capacity? What's it made from? Is there a looted vehicle at the core? From what race?

 

The fact remains that even if something can be recognized as an "ork tank", there is no such thing as an actual ork tank design. There has never, and will never, be a case of an Ork saying "well sorry Boss, I'd love to build you a battlewagon, but we're out of the specific parts to make that specific class of vehicle". The mek just knows that he needs to build a massive trukk, with loads of guns. There is no Ork equivalent of the Abrams, or the Panzer, or any other sort of tank, because they're all built on instinct. There is absolutely no background, ever, that points to Orks having a shared design schematic for various vehicles. A Kill-bursta is a cover-all term for an Ork self-propelled vehicle armed with an extremely large-bore kannon, for example. What calibre rounds does a kannon fire? Whatever calibre the particular mek decides to make it at. How thick is the armour on a battle-wagon, and how many turrets? Depends on the battle-wagon. Does a trukk use wheels or tracks? Dunno, check that particular trukk and see.

 

Trying to find anything uniform about orkish construction is doomed to failure. That's been a key part of their imagery from day one. If you argue that that's semantics, I really don't know what else I could say.

[FlamingDeth]

Who said anything about it having to be a standardized, shared design? Meks design things all the time. If they go into a build with plan beforehand then they’ve designed it. I’ve never heard of a grot mega tank refered to as a buggy or a trukk before. There’s something disingenuous about saying that there’s no standardized design and then going in and saying that all ork vehicles automatically fall into certain classes.

 

Anyways, the point here is this: to answer the original question, regardless of what they call it, orks have made their own tanks before that are not looted from other races vehicles. That’s the last I’m going to say here though because I also doubt I’m going to convince you of anything.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, the original poster specifically mentions things like the "turret, hull, tracks, roadwheels, optics, main gun and breach, machine guns, etc" as a design, like the specific design of an Abrams, etc. This categorically does not exist for the Orks, at least in the sense of there being an "Ork Panzer" There is no one design for a trukk, or a battle wagon. Are there uniquely designed Ork tanks? Yes. Never said there weren't. It was basically the crux of my argument, that they're the only things the Orks make. Trying to categorize Ork vehicles into specific sorts of turrets, hulls, optics, and the like is pointless, because they'll be different on each vehicle.

 

Also, there's nothing disingenuous about pointing out that Ork vehicles are split into loose size categories. They're loose descriptors that can be used to roughly classify the different Ork vehicles.

 

And again, you've never heard of a Grot Tank referred to as a Trukk or buggy before because there's absolutely nothing written on them other than a brief write-up on them by Forge World. What's a trukk? Other than a land-bound troop-carrying vehicle, it's entirely up in the air. Is a kill-bursta any less of a kill-bursta if it's based around a Baneblade chassis? No.

[Gederas]

Is a kill-bursta any less of a kill-bursta if it's based around a Baneblade chassis? No.

.... You just gave me a new idea :lol:

 

Though it sucks that the Skullhamma Battlefortress was removed. Though my FLGS still has the Apocalypse rulebook where it is shown. So if my friends decide to do a Narrative campaign, a Skullhamma may show up for either me or my friend's Deathskulls Freebooterz :lol:

[Lord_Caerolion]

Glad to be of assistance, Gederas. 

 

Maybe I'll see if I've still got my hodge-podge Taurox/Trukk/Grot-Gun Battlewagon to finish converting...

[Skaorn]

I think the reason for this is that the grots were generally seen as the ones wanting to be enclosed in a tight, secure space, hence grot tanks. A boy wants to punch a git in the face, and he can’t really do that from inside a tank.

This makes me imagine a Mekk building a tank with a gun that fires a big wrecking ball shaped like a fist, attached to a chain, so he can punch someone while in a tank.

[Noeh]

Make one with a fist and one with a foot and say you're casting the warhammer fantasy spells.

[Redtoof]

I've always been a fan of the Lungbursta and it's stripped down aesthetic. It's a lump of armour with tracks and a big gun. Tank, done.

[Krakendoomcool]

Yep, well done Redtoof. I think that’s the most traditional tank Orks have.

[Lord_Caerolion]

... With a Deff-Rolla that's a spinning wheel of metal boots/feet on poles, to repeatedly kick whatever it runs into?

[Golf33]

Several of the old epic vehicles qualify as non-looted Ork tanks. There's a good list here: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Epic_Orks_Part_One_-_Collectors_Guide

 

A few, like the lungbursta, qualify more as wheeled assault guns than tanks. The gutrippa, bone cruncha, and bone breaka are all definitely tanks (some just have a close combat attachment on the front, just as modern MBTs often have a mine-plough variant that is still a tank). I found particularly interesting the aesthetic, which is a lot more modern MBT than (for example) the very WWI theme of a Leman Russ or Land Raider.