Telemon Heavy Dreadnought 40k BETA Rules

[point_Zer0]

So does anyone think a firebase of a shield captain, a shooty telemon and a Caladius will be viable? Maybe leave your magnifica with them once your bikes leave? It'll at least give you some backfield objective grabbers with some anti-tank firepower so you can focus on killing hordes with your hurricane Bolter bikes.

Gonna test this as soon as my telemon arrives

[swordofmandulis]

So does anyone think a firebase of a shield captain, a shooty telemon and a Caladius will be viable? Maybe leave your magnifica with them once your bikes leave? It'll at least give you some backfield objective grabbers with some anti-tank firepower so you can focus on killing hordes with your hurricane Bolter bikes.

I'm planning to run both but go for fists and my opponent will have my entire army to deal with by turn 2 and a caladius targeting heaviea from out of lascannon range (hopefully)

[TheFinisher4Ever]

I'm gonna try it out today with Valoris, a Caladius and the shooty telemon. Rest of the army is pretty much bikes. Will report back with my findings.

[kombatwombat]

So I had a go over the weekend.

 

The base profile is good, seems about right for the cost - similar durability to a Land Raider, but trades transport capacity and movement for an invul and melee ability. It’s a bit cheaper than the Land Raider and comes with the Spiculus Launcher, but the LR has been overcosted for time immemorial so the Telemon seems as an ok price.

 

The weapons aren’t so hot. The Spiculus Launcher was underwhelming for me, but then mine was on the move - I suspect on a stationary Telemon it’d get some work done against medium infantry.

 

Mine was loaded out with twin Caestus. Melee-wise it’s a bit underwhelming. With only 3 damage and AP-3, your preferred targets - vehicles and monsters - are generally going to get a save, and probably pass one of them. Even with rerolls to hit and wound (thanks to a deep striking Shield Captain) it’ll still only end up doing 9 damage generally. That’s exactly what happened to me - deep strike turn 2 after bikes had cleared the Guardsmen screen, out of range for the Caestus but got the charge off into a Leman Russ. 4 wounds, 1 saved on a 6, 9 damage... and one living Russ. It’s a little disheartening and will probably be quite common. It’s also very irritating when I’m used to my Templars Contemptor Dreadnought’s Chainfists which are AP-4 and Dmg4, which is probably what the Caestus should be.

 

To fix the Caestus I would make it AP-4 Dmg4, remove their rerolls to wound and make that a rule that it can reroll 1s to wound in melee if if has 2 Caestus. This gives the second fist a purpose. Aside from that I think the Caestus cost is fine.

 

The Plasma Injectors are fun - woe betide the fool who tries to charge through that Overwatch - but overcosted. Yes, plasma is deadly this edition, but that is due to its ability to overcharge for 2 damage and reasonable range, both of which the Injectors lack. I’d see two ways to fix this - either up the carnage, or drop the points. Making it flat 2 damage would make it worth the 120pt price tag, but personally I’d prefer it were dropped to say 45pts per weapon. Eggs-in-one-basket is already enough of an issue for Custodes.

 

I haven’t tried the ranged loadouts yet, but they seem to suffer from the same issue I’ve been having with the Caladius (and Custodes in general actually) - D3 damage just isn’t reliable enough for an army that depends on extreme low-volume, high reliability. As with the Caladius, I’m uncertain what Damage characteristic I’d use for the Accelerator Cannons. 2 Dmg doesn’t seem like quite enough, but 3 seems a bit much.

 

The Las-Storm I’d certainly make Dmg2, which makes it directly comparable to the Leviathan’s Stormcannon. I’d therefore bump it up to Str8 AP-1 to the Stormcannon’s Str7 AP-2 - trading one point of AP for one point of Strength. The increased range over the Stormcannon I’d leave as its ‘Custodes-ness’. If the Stormcannon is 50pts I’d keep the Las-Storm as 60.

 

With that, I’d make the Accelerator Cannons 3 Damage per shot. They’d have 50% more damage than the Las-Storm but only 60% of the shots at a better AP. Then bulk them out to 60pts each.

 

To summarise, I’d make the weapons:

 

Caestus - Str x2 AP-4 Dmg 4 60/65pts (single/pair) Reroll 1s to Wound in combat if armed with a pair

Plasma Injector - Rng 8” Str 7 AP-3 Dmg 1 Heavy 2D6 45pts Hits automatically

Accelerator Cannon - Rng 36” Str 8 AP-3 Dmg 3 Heavy 6 60pts

Las-Storm - Rng 48” Str 8 AP-1 Dmg 2 Heavy 10 60pts

 

Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Caestus and Plasma Injectors - 375

Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Accelerator Cannons - 340

Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Las-Storms - 340

 

For comparison,

 

Leviathan Seige Drill - Str x2 AP-4 Dmg 4 55/65pts (single/pair)

Stormcannon Array - Rng 24” Str 7 AP-2 Dmg 2 Heavy 10 50pts

 

Leviathan with two Heavy Flamers, two Meltaguns and two Siege Drills - 308

Leviathan with two Heavy Flamers and twin Stormcannon Array - 309

 

I think the Leviathan is the best comparison and I think these changes suitably up-scale the damage and points appropriately.

[TheFinisher4Ever]

I tried mine out on Saturday. I got 2 games in, the first against Tau and the second against Necrons. My list was very simple. I had a firebase of a Caladius, a ranged Telemon with 1 of each gun, a Vexilla, and Trajann for rerolls. The rest of my list was filled out with a shield captain on bike and 3* bike squads.

 

My first game against Tau didn't go so well. My opponent had 3 riptides and a unit of 3 missile broadsides and loads of infantry. The big problem here was shield drones. The fact that they can tank multi-damage weapons with a single 5+ roll is absurd. Needless to say, by the end of turn 4, my firebase had taken out 2 of the riptides, but by then the rest of my army had been destroyed.

 

My second game against Necrons went the complete opposite way. The Spicilus and the Twin Lastrum ate up whole warrior blobs in single shooting rounds. The D3 damage on the main guns were perfect for taking out Quantom Shielded vehicles. I tabled my opponent by turn 3.

 

So what are my thoughts on the Telemon? Overall, I liked it. I think the ranged version is pretty spot on. The only change I would make to it is to give it Power of the Machine Spirit. Custodes are too expensive to leave a firebase in the back. A Vexilla and shield captain costs too much to simply be babysitters. As far as the load out goes, I don't see myself trying the fists until they are drastically reduced in price. I very much like the suggestions that Kombatwombat made above me.

 

As far as the D3 damage woes go, what do y'all think about making it D3 damage with a minimum 2, like the Neutron Laser? That would put it right in the middle between flat 2 damage and flat 3 damage. What do you think?

[kombatwombat]

As far as the D3 damage woes go, what do y'all think about making it D3 damage with a minimum 2, like the Neutron Laser? That would put it right in the middle between flat 2 damage and flat 3 damage. What do you think?

I like this actually. It’s effectively ‘roll a die, on a 5+ this wound does 1 extra damage’ or an average of 2.33 damage.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Is anyone going to run the launcher ?

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Is anyone going to run the launcher ?

The Spiculus Bolt Launcher? It comes stock on the model and it's free, so we both used it. It's pretty solid against a short-range shooting army that will get in range without you needing to move. During my game 2, it ate almost entire warrior squads by itself. Then i finished the squads off with the Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon on my Caladius.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Is that the missile launcher on top ? Thanks for the feedback !

 

I am starting to warm to the Telemon now .

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Is that the missile launcher on top ? Thanks for the feedback !

 

I am starting to warm to the Telemon now .

Yup, it's the launcher on top. It didn't do jack squat on my first game because i couldn't afford to move forward and get it in range with that -1 to hit penalty. But it's solid against mid-range or melee armies. And it's free, which is nice.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I really feel like FW should provide a detailed diagram that shows exactly what is each weapon and where it goes.

[dtse]

You know guys. Unless forgeworld is gonna give us a bunch of decent shooting platforms, I just don’t think Custodes is a ranged army. At all. Trying to turn Custodes into a fire base army and then competing against a true shooting army, like tau, just illustrates how bad we are at it

[TheHarpDaddy]

I guess we have to wait until we get the rules for the Pallas Grav Attack vehicles and the Saggitarum Guard. Still, I don't think these will jettison custodes into a competitive shooting army. 

 

A mix of both I think is good, and I've really *really* been enjoying the lastrum bolt cannons on the grav vehicles at the moment. 

 

I like the sound of the telemon with double ranged weapons for 310pts, but I really worry about completely getting rid combat ability on such a powerful chassis. It's more durable than a caladius, but not having fly makes it really vulnerable to becoming useless to a single enemy model engaging you in combat. It is sooo much more durable than a caladius, though. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m warming up to the Telemon with two culverns - a lot of our units clock in around ~300 points so it’d be easy enough to fit. Seeing Custodes excel in melee not taking the DCCW is no loss in my opinion.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I am kind of blown away by how close but not quite right all the weapons are. Thoughts are a bit scattered but here are mine:

Las storm needs a focused mode, and maybe just flat 2 damage on the normal profile?

Focused mode could be like: str10, heavy 2, -4ap,  3+d3 damage

The Telemon is almost knight sized, but he doesn't have even CC prowess to reliably knock out a rhino in one turn? What, and why?

I have the same problem with these rules as I do with all walkers (particularly the CC variants of walkers), they too easily get tied by flak forces in CC if they can't kill their way out. Walkers would get a massive quality of life bonus with a sweep attack at base str, maybe -1 or -2 ap and one damage. It would almost justify the outrageous cost of the fists. Especially if you had to have a pair to unlock the sweep attack! 

Culverin: Well hopefully this spells a 12 shot upgrade for the caladius! Still suffers from a lack of damage, needs flat 2, or that above idea of 3 on a roll of 5 or 6 to wound? The caladius could certainly use that profile but on crack.

Can anyone think of a real reason to make this guy one per army? Too ridiculous deepstriking 2 of these in maybe? 

Launcher could really use something spicy added besides the double shot, like a unit that takes losses suffers an additional -1 leadership? Just a thought but mentally seeing swarms of missiles pin-point accurately obliterate your squad mates would be beyond your normal "aww darn Steven caught a bullet!". Maybe not? 

Beyond the hype that a real rule book is coming for all of custodes stuff AND a whole new subfaction with it's own rules. Onward my golden brothers. 
 

[TheHarpDaddy]

Might be a bit too much, but perhaps changing the Plasma Ejectors to Pistol d6 would be better? Helps combat large swathes of infantry so you can't just get tied up willy nilly. 

 

Could be too powerful though..?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

2 auto d6 (or 4 with two fists)...would be by far the deadliest CC pistols in the game bar none. Possibly the best CC in the game period vs infantry.

I had a set of fan made rules where a stratagem would allow any custodes unit or dread to fire their guns even if they were within 1"...man that would have made for such a banaza for dealing with bodies. 

I think that is a bit over powered though. 

that's averaged out to like 12 auto hits? Yeeeouch. Str7ap3? Whew. 

I kinda love it. Would absolutely be decried as broken. 

[TheHarpDaddy]

Yeah probably a bit too much... haha. 

 

This is my up and coming 2000pts list using as many of the FW beta models as possible. Definitely not the most incredible way to run custodes but it's something a little different and the best way to test these models and provide feedback is to get hammered by top tier armies, right!? 

 

——————

 

Custodes Battalion 

 

HQ 

 

Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike 

- Auric Shakes Relic 

- Hurricane Bolter 

- Interceptor Lance 

- Misericordia

 

Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike 

- Hurricane Bolter 

- Interceptor Lance 

- Misericordia 

 

TROOPS 

 

3 Custodian Guard 

- 2 Guardian Spears 

- 1 Sentinel Warblade 

- 1 Storm Shield 

 

3 Custodian Guard 

- 2 Guardian Spears 

- 1 Sentinel Warblade 

- 1 Storm Shield 

 

3 Custodian Guard 

- 2 Guardian Spears 

- 1 Sentinel Warblade 

- 1 Storm Shield 

 

ELITES 

 

Vexillus Praetor

- Vexilla Magnifica 

- Guardian Spear 

- Misericordia 

 

HEAVY SUPPORT 

 

Coronus Grav-Carrier 

- Twin Arachnus Las-Blaze 

- Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon 

 

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought 

- 2 Iliastus Accelerator Culverins 

 

——————

 

CUSTODES AUXILIARY 

 

HEAVY SUPPORT 

 

Coronus Grav-Carrier

- Twin Arachnus Las-Blaze 

- Twin Lastrum Bolt Cannon 

 

——————

 

The only fear I have is that the telemon will be way too easy to engage in combat and therefore a bit of a dead weight. I had it in as a Caladius which is a bit more thematic (mounted custodes strike force) but the telemon is just so much more durable and does a bit more damage for the points. 

 

Any thoughts? I am in love with the Coronus Grav Carriers but my goodness are they expensive. 

[dtse]

I just hope people are feeding back to GW

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I did a couple months back on caladius and the dreds.

 

Maybe I should update with the idea for sweep attacks for cc feeds after I try it a few times.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it is really worth keeping a DCCW for the amazing overwatch.

[Helycon]

I think it is really worth keeping a DCCW for the amazing overwatch.

Why would anyone want to charge it then? It's too easy to consolidate into it too, meaning overwatch bid not applicable.

[TheFinisher4Ever]

I think it is really worth keeping a DCCW for the amazing overwatch.

I don't know. I think that 120 points is far better spent on a shield captain on bike that gives the dread reroll 1s to hit with it's guns and can swooping dive if anything dangerous tags your dread. And the Bike Captain is only 40 points more than a single first with plasma ejector.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like the dread to be able to operate independently and not need a baby sitter. Straight 3 DMG is nice too.

[Helycon]

I like the dread to be able to operate independently and not need a baby sitter. Straight 3 DMG is nice too.

 A Leviathan is a full 100 points cheaper for -1S, 1MV for each bracket, and -2ld which rarely comes into play. It can also reroll wounds against infantry. If you give it Siege Drills, it goes up in AP and damage, so they'll be at -4AP and 4D for each hit. It goes up by about 10 points, making the difference a staggering 90 points. And yes, a Leviathan comes with 2 heavy flamers. 

 

The points on the melee weapons are massively off.