Apocalypse Tie-Breaker (7500pts)

[Frostglaive]

My buddy and I have our third Apocalypse game coming up. He's won our first match at 4,000pts, I won our second at 6,000pts. Time for a tie-breaker. 7,500pts. No playing nice, no holding back. This is for all the bragging rights..... maybe I'll buy him some scions if he wins or make him buy my lunch if I do, I don't know.

 

So yeah. 7,500pts. I'm pretty much bringing the entirety of my AdMech in this game (plus some Knights). While I do own some Custodes, Inquisitors, Assassins, and even a few Necrons, I'm trying to play as "pure" as possible with my list. So avoiding all of that if I can.

 

My opponent is playing Guard and Space Marines. It'll be his first time playing Marines with the codex (he's played them before, but never owned the 'dex), but I believe he'll run them as Salamanders. Maybe Raven Guard if he's feeling aggressive, or Ultramarines if he wants to be smart (they would fit his style best I think). His Guard will definitely be Cadians, three superheavies (shadowsword, baneblade or hellhammer, and a stormlord), only a few Russes I think, definitely 2 10-man scion squads one with volley one with melta. After that, I don't know what he'll be bringing.

 

Here's my list:

 

2 Battalions, 1 Brigade, 1 Spearhead, 1 Vanguard, and 1 Super-heavy: 30CP

Forge worlds: all Stygies VIII

 

Battalion 1:

Dominus, Enginseer, and 4 7-man squads of Rangers w/ 2 Arqebus and Omnispex

 

Battalion 2:

2 Enginseers and 5 10-man squads of Vanguard (no upgrades)

 

Brigade:

3 Dominus

4 3-man Destroyers w/ Plasma and Phospher

4 10-man Vanguard w/ 3 Plasma, Taser Goad, and Data-tether

4 10-man Fulgurite

3 2-man Dragoons

2 4-man Dakkabots

Neutronager

 

Spearhead:

Enginseer and 3 Neutronagers

 

Vanguard:

Enginseer and 4 5-man Taser Infiltrators

 

Super-heavy:

2 Knight Crusaders w/ Battlecannon and Stormspear

1 Styrix w/ cancer claw

 

Again, essentially bringing everything I have. Insanely infantry-heavy. My plan as of right now is: Spend 4CP, Clandestine Infiltrate all of my Fulgurites so they can either act as a fire magnet if I lose Turn 1 or get a first turn charge if I get Turn 1. Possibly spend 4 more CP and Infiltrate my 4 Vanguard squads w/ Plasma between 13" - 18" away so I can get some volley of fire right into his face as well. Have my Crusaders flank each side with all their guns, the Styrix running down the middle more as a distraction Carnifex than anything (my buddy hates and fears Forge World so I'll use that to my advantage). Spread out Rangers to target characters with snipers, my 5 barebone Vanguard squads marching up the board for objective and table control, Dakkabots laying waste to any and all infantry threats, Neutronagers targeting Russes, Preds, and any other tank I can kill fast before moving on to Super-heavies.

 

With my infantry-heavy list, I'll easily outnumber my opponent. And with the exception of his super-heavies, I'm fairly certain I easily outgun him too. So as long as I get Turn 1, I'll have my alpha strike charges with my priests, a load of firepower blasting away, and most of my Vanguard towards the middle of the board. Turn 2 I should have board and objective control. My plan/hope is to waste enough of his army by Turn 3 to have him call it and surrender.

 

That's my list, that's my plan. Thoughts?

[Omnissiahs Fury]

I'd wager that the priests will not only execute the turn 1 charge and kill, but that the priests will dominate the battle. I love running multiple units, especially if they all get the 3++...

 

Just remember to keep using the stratagems every turn and you will probably crush them by t3. In terms of wager, definitely make sure they get you a cold drink with your lunch, they will need the ice after that much firepower coming at them!

[frosteldar]

Wow, that is going to be an epic game!  Please take pics and share them with us, as that much AdMech would look amazing.  I'm a fairly new AdMech player so don't have tons of advice, but infiltrating the Dragoons may also be a good idea so they can get in and mess stuff up!  The good news about the Stygies VIII stratagem is that you can determine who has first turn and then decide where to deploy, which is really nice!

[Trixie]

Pics please, this is basically pornhammer !

[Frostglaive]

I do need to apologize in advance. While I am posting about this game now, it could be at least a week or two before it actually happens. I was originally hoping for tomorrow, but my buddy/arch-nemesis is getting his wisdom teeth pulled then (I guess health concerns are a higher priority to plastic/resin crack). So again, I'm sorry but it will be a little while before the game. I will get pictures of that fight for you guys. Heck, I'll get pics of my army later on beforehand, and hopefully some of his stuff too.

 

So a couple more things about the match. We did agree to make this an Open War game. That way there's no restrictions on datasheet limits and we can use stratagems as many times as we want in a phase. We're getting rid of First Blood and Linebreaker for victory conditions (First Blood will literally be whoever gets Turn 1, and Linebreaker just seems silly for the two of us). However, we're implementing a little special rule: 3 Warlords instead of 1, one being considered Warmaster (so worth 2VP instead of 1VP). Doing this due to the sheer size of this game, figured having multiple leaders with one overall supreme leader would be more fun/fluffy.

 

We are going to try to forge a narrative out of this if we can. My buddy/nemesis loves making fluff for his faction. As for me, I just want to take his Mary Sue army of Emperor and Chaos-hating renegades down a few pegs and scorch one or two of his planets. I consider him to be one of my best friends. And I cheer for him every game he plays that's not against me, and vice versa. But when it's time to fight each other, we get mean. I don't think I ever take a game of 40k more seriously than when we're fighting lol.

 

Anyway, couple strategy questions for you guys:

 

- Since this game is Open War, that means I can pop Binharic Override on all my Dakkabots Turn 1, since I don't have any Datasmiths to change them over to maximum Dakka protocol. Instead of running 2 units of 4, what about splitting them up into 4 units of 2? Have them spread out even more across the table (table length will be 4' x 10' Dawn of War deployment style by the way) so I can get some more firepower spread out. What do you guys think? 4 squads of 2 or 2 squads of 4?

 

- Frosteldar, I like your suggestion of Infiltrating my Dragoons in. However, I'm already spending 4CP out of 30 to Infiltrate my electro-priests, plus a possible 4 more on my plasma-heavy Vanguard squads. PLUS I may even drop 1 more to throw down a Dominus with Prime Hermeticon as his Warlord trait (6" bubble of reroll misses in Fight phase for my Fulgurites). Kind of giving one of my three Warlords over to him by doing that, but I think it'd be a good sacrifice to let my Fulgurites get more hits in combat, at least for Turn 1 or so. So I think I'll just let my Dragoons run up the board. 3 squads of 2 with Stygies and their natural -1 to hit them should keep them alive long enough to get into combat.

 

- I do need to be honest, my second Crusader Knight is actually a built as a Gallant. But we're pretty lax about count-as rules. As long as the chassis is correct, we're usually okay with allowing count-as weapons. But I started thinking, since I'm already doing that with my Gallant, what about doing that with my Styrix as well? I can drop one of my 4 squads of Rangers, spend those points on making my Styrix a THIRD Crusader, and throw the last little bit of points I have on some extra guns or something. What do you think? Styrix, or third Crusader?

[Clingy]

I think the question that’s on everyone’s lips is how many buckets of dice

[Frostglaive]

For my opponent, unfortunately not enough dice (won't buy more for whatever odd reason). MY DICE on the other hand, I think I'm sitting at 100 or so D6 with a bunch of D10's, 12's and 20's for wounds and CP. So clearly not enough dice! Time to buy some more!

[Stray]

GW's 'Assault Dice' app is really worth a look for things like this. It's pretty cheap and works really well for easily rolling large numbers of dice at once. You can quickly isolate specific results to put to one side, or re-roll etc too.

 

Technically, it should even be statistically 'fairer' than a standard dice roll too if that matters to people :P

[frosteldar]

But if you use an app, then personal luck can't play a factor!  :)

[Stray]

But if you use an app, then personal luck can't play a factor! 

 

That depends on how nice you are to your devices machine spirit ;)

[Frostglaive]

I should probably stick with dice then, if my luck with computers is anything to go by..... Plus, I love rolling the dice myself anyway. More fun for me.

[frosteldar]

By the way, I definitely understand saving your CP for the electro-priests and your strategy there makes lots of sense.  They will be very effective, especially with the tech priest with that trait!  And the Dragoons are fast enough to get them where you want them anyway.  

 

I am fairly new to AdMech, so I don't have much insight on your other strategy questions, but will offer some thoughts based on what I've heard/read. 

 

1.  Regarding whether to keep your dakkabots as 2 units of 4 or having 4 units of 2.....I think it might be more effective to keep the 2 units of 4, as it'll reduce the amount of CP for strategems you may want to use on each unit, will provide more firepower on that section (which you can still split to different targets as needed), and would be easier to keep units near a Dominus for rerolls. 

 

2.  I am assuming you are running 4 units of 10 electro-priests to have broader board coverage?  While I know 10 can be very effective (especially with a Dominus and co-charging with vanguard to reduce toughness), I have heard that running larger groups of 20 is downright scary and hard to kill.  Reducing to two large squads of 20 will make it easy to kill your initial target and get 3+ invulnerable for the rest of the game, might make it easier to infiltrate 2 units instead of 4, may be easier to kill and tie up enemy units with larger squads, and it'll be harder to wipe out your squads so they prove to be a threat longer.  As an aside, the CP you'd get back could be used for those vanguard or dragoons.

 

My humble, yet inexperienced thoughts.  :)  Really looking forward to hearing about the game, as it sounds like you and your friend have a fun rivalry!  I really wish my younger brother still played as we had many fun games of Warhammer Fantasy and 40k back in the day.  Now my rivalry is with my step-son, but I can't be mean in those games....not yet!

[Frostglaive]

Well, you could be mean, seeing as he's your step-son... but I don't think the missus would appreciate that very much

 

After thinking about it a little more, I'm inclined to agree, frosteldar. 2 units of 20 is a heck of a lot scarier, saves me a couple CP, 2 less drops for deployment, and easier to get that 3++ invul with the amount of attacks and mortal wounds dished out. In addition, considering how terrified my opponent is of Fulgurites, this actually helps as well if he ends up getting Turn 1 instead of me. Most of his firepower will be directed at them instead of my heavy hitters at range. Granted, I want my raving lunatics to live long enough to wreck his frontlines, but I am content with using them as a sacrificial Distraction Carnifex if needed.

 

Also, same with the Kastelans as it is with the Fulgurites. I'll run the 2 units of 4. Less drops, less CP spent, but still just as effective since I can split-fire.

 

I did make a change to my list regarding my Knights. I will be running 3 Crusaders (actually bought a new one recently). Going to run them all with Thermal Cannons instead of Battle Cannons though. That Strength 9 is too sweet to pass up against his Super-heavies (especially that Shadowsword. I hate that thing so much... Well, I hate my opponent's Shadowsword. I love the model and the gun. Just not pointed at me...).

[frosteldar]

Awesome, glad I could help!  Also, since the Stygies stratagem lets you deploy infiltrators after you know who is going first, that will help you either deploy your fulgurites closer or further away, depending on the roll!  Additionally, if you don't go first, you can choose the Shroudpsalm Canticle for the first round to get cover saves on all AdMech units, and your opponent will have to deal with Stygies -1 to hit over 12".  

 

I totally agree....much cooler to see big guns on the same side, than across from you!  :)

[Frostglaive]

Update on the upcoming Apocalypse game:

 

Scheduled for this Saturday now. Still at 7500pts. 4' x 10' table, Dawn of War. No First Blood or Linebreaker, 3 Warlords w/ 1 worth 2pts instead of 1 for Slay the Warlord. Mission is 6 objectives on the table, 1 in each deployment zone, 4 in no man's land. 1pt per objective for every battle round you hold it (it must be secured until the start of your next turn to gain the point). We switched over to Matched Play instead of Open. Balances things out a bit for both of us.

 

I re-made my list. Still mostly the same, but some differences to it. 2 Battalions, 1 Brigade, 1 Spearhead, 1 Super-Heavy. 29CP, Stygies VIII for AdMech Forge World. Going to attempt to convince my opponent to let me try a Knight Household with the rumors floating around (doubt he'll agree to it, but it doesn't hurt to try). New list:

 

Battalion 1:

2 Enginseers

3 5-man Ranger squads w/ 2 Arquebus and Omnispex

 

Battalion 2:

2 Enginseers

5 10-man Vanguard squads (no upgrades)

 

Spearhead:

1 Enginseer

3 Neutronagers w/ extra Stubber

 

Brigade:

3 Dominus (my 3 Warlords. Necromechanic, Chorister Technis, and Prime Hermeticon)
4 10-man Vanguard squads w/ 3 Plasma and Data-tether

4 3-man Destroyer squads w/ Plasma and Phosphor

4 10-man Fulgurite squads

3 3-man Dragoons

2 4-man Dakkastelans

1 Neutronager

 

Super-heavy:

4 Crusaders w/ Thermal, Gatling, Stubber, Heavy Flamer, and Stormspear

-----------------------------

So biggest differences: Obviously the 4th Knight. I bought another Crusader recently (impulse buy...) and I wanted to field him. I dropped the Infiltrators entirely, swapped a Dominus for an Enginseer, removed a Ranger squad and brought the other 3 down to 5-man. Added in 3 more Dragoons (another impulse buy... I want to say no regrets, but there are some little regrets...). Also dropped some upgrades on other models to fill out the points.
 

The plan remains mostly the same. Some differences. 5CP before Turn 1 to infiltrate the Fulgurites and the Prime Hermeticon Dominus for reroll hits in Fight. Have them either Turn 1 charge and cause havoc, or let them be distraction Carnifexes if he goes first (the man is terrified of my raving lunatics. As he should be). Not going to infiltrate the 4 plasma Vanguard squads now since we're playing objectives, unless I feel the need to while we deploy. Dragoons will charge up the board, plasma Vanguard will advance up for board and objective control, barebone Vanguard will either pull rearguard and area denial or go for more board control. Rangers will sit back and snipe at whatever characters I can find (opponent is good at hiding them). Destroyers and Dakkabots will sit back, keep popping Elimination Volley, and rain plasma and white phosphorous on everything in sight. Knights will move up, Thermals focusing on Super-heavies (concentrate fire as best as I can. Shadowsword dies first), Gatling Cannons will go for Heavy Weapon Squads and Devastators and try to get into close combat with anything squishy since they can fall back and shoot/charge next turn. Neutronagers will either help focus fire on super-heavies or try to pop some Russes and Predators (and Land Raiders if my opponent brings them).

If my opponent allows it, I'm going to use Hawkshroud for my Knights. Essentially make them Valhallans for the inevitable onslaught of heavy fire he's going to rain down on them. Again, I doubt he'll let me since the Knight Households are still just rumored rules, but I can still ask.

Got a lot of pieces in this plan. A lot of it is riding on the hope that I get first turn so I can make my push immediately. But since I'm running Stygies VIII, most of my stuff should be (mostly) fine if he gets it. And since Tactical Reserves hit, I won't have to worry about Scions, Assault Marines, or Terminators dropping in Turn 1 either. The Knights getting shot to pieces is what concerns me the most Turn 1, especially with whatever his Shadowsword shoots at (hopefully Rotate Ion Shields does its job...). Fulgurites will die if I don't get Turn 1, but they'll soak up a lot of fire at least so I'm not concerned. We'll see what happens I guess.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

Also, I'll get as many pictures as I can for you guys. I know some of you were asking for them.