RogueApiary Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 I'm really liking the new Codex, but my first game with it opened up an odd quirk of the mission Tactics/doctrines. Namely, dedicated transports, despite most of them being very capable vehicles in their own right, are immune to them. Felt really weird fighting a DE army running 5 or 6 Raiders and not being able to use half my army's core mechanics against them. Especially now that there's incentive to take multiple transports as gunboats to get around the rule of three in the FAQ. So is this an oversight or a deliberate balance decision? It seems like it'd be an easy fix by either creating a new tactic/doctrine or adding the Dedicated Transport tag to Venator like how Malleus covers HS/LoW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 That is an amazing point. I wonder if it'll be clarified in the FAQ. How do we direct questions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5080645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loar Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Yeah I've noticed that as well and it really makes the whole army suffer, like significantly, as AT power has already been an issue for us. Trying to fight any variant of Eldar now is incredibly frustrating (which is annoying considering the anti-xenos focus of the codex). Harlequins transports give base -1 to hit and ++4 (meaning at least -2 to hit if we use our anti-eldar strat, which now doesn't benefit from mission tactics). Craftworld wave serpents its even worse as we are looking at potentially -2 or more to hit from alatoic or lightning reflexes. Deldar are the same with mass venoms. I really hope they FAQ it into an existing mission tactic, we already need to play super cagey and every shoot counts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5080647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueApiary Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 40kfaq@gwplc.com is their FAQ email. I recommend sending them a (polite) email so it hopefully gets addressed. DW is a relatively small number of players, so I think every player that sends an email will matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5080670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Probably intentional, but it's worth asking. C: SM doesn't get any of its Chapter Tactics for its vehicles (other than Dreadnoughts) so it's safe to assume GW was keeping this pattern going with DW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5080963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Probably intentional, but it's worth asking. C: SM doesn't get any of its Chapter Tactics for its vehicles (other than Dreadnoughts) so it's safe to assume GW was keeping this pattern going with DW. No, no - you misunderstand. We mean as the target. The tactics give you reroll 1s to wound against each battlefield role EXCEPT transports. Same with the doctrine stratagems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5080967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
6262 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Don't transport s take on the same role as the unit they're bought for? Or am I so stuck in the past? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5080978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Don't transport s take on the same role as the unit they're bought for? Or am I so stuck in the past? I kept thinking this, but I haven't been able to find anywhere in the 8th edition rules that states this. Perhaps it's just the past come to haunt us... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5081012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Don't transport s take on the same role as the unit they're bought for? Or am I so stuck in the past?Nope, they're a separate role now - just as how most stuff that is in the Flyer role used to be Fast Attack back in the day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5081032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 OH! So OUR transports DO benefit from Mission Tactics, but our Strategems/MTs don't have an option to target Dedicated Transports? That makes more sense. It's odd too, because GW went out of their way to give us a MT/Doctrine for both Flyers and LoW but somehow forgot that DTs existed. I'd imagine they could FAQ this into the MT/Doctrine that targets Troops (most likely) but we'll have to make a stink about it. Make sure to post this up to their community page! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5081994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 OH! So OUR transports DO benefit from Mission Tactics, but our Strategems/MTs don't have an option to target Dedicated Transports? That makes more sense. It's odd too, because GW went out of their way to give us a MT/Doctrine for both Flyers and LoW but somehow forgot that DTs existed. I'd imagine they could FAQ this into the MT/Doctrine that targets Troops (most likely) but we'll have to make a stink about it. Make sure to post this up to their community page! No no - you were right, I was just trying to clarify the message earlier since it wasn't what was meant originally. Sorry for the confusion! Our transports don't benefit from Mission Tactics - only Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts do. I really wish it applied to all Deathwatch units (the same way I wish Chapter Tactics applied to all Space Marine units). But alas, those are the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5082089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 OH! So OUR transports DO benefit from Mission Tactics, but our Strategems/MTs don't have an option to target Dedicated Transports? That makes more sense. It's odd too, because GW went out of their way to give us a MT/Doctrine for both Flyers and LoW but somehow forgot that DTs existed. I'd imagine they could FAQ this into the MT/Doctrine that targets Troops (most likely) but we'll have to make a stink about it. Make sure to post this up to their community page! No no - you were right, I was just trying to clarify the message earlier since it wasn't what was meant originally. Sorry for the confusion! Our transports don't benefit from Mission Tactics - only Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts do. I really wish it applied to all Deathwatch units (the same way I wish Chapter Tactics applied to all Space Marine units). But alas, those are the rules. My goodness this was a confusing ride. Ah well, at least our transports can still utilize character aura buffs and SIA where applicable (right?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5083066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 OH! So OUR transports DO benefit from Mission Tactics, but our Strategems/MTs don't have an option to target Dedicated Transports? That makes more sense. It's odd too, because GW went out of their way to give us a MT/Doctrine for both Flyers and LoW but somehow forgot that DTs existed. I'd imagine they could FAQ this into the MT/Doctrine that targets Troops (most likely) but we'll have to make a stink about it. Make sure to post this up to their community page! No no - you were right, I was just trying to clarify the message earlier since it wasn't what was meant originally. Sorry for the confusion! Our transports don't benefit from Mission Tactics - only Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts do. I really wish it applied to all Deathwatch units (the same way I wish Chapter Tactics applied to all Space Marine units). But alas, those are the rules. My goodness this was a confusing ride. Ah well, at least our transports can still utilize character aura buffs and SIA where applicable (right?). Oh, uhm...about that. I hate to be the bearer of bad news all through this thread , but sadly no. SIA is a special rule that shows up under the abilities in the data sheet. Unfortunately, our vehicles (and dreadnoughts) do not have this special rule, so their storm bolters aren't benefiting from it. Thankfully there's an entry for Storm Bolter (VEHICLES) on the points list, so you don't end up paying for the SIA privilege without getting to use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5083099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Oh crumbs. Even the Dreadnoughts? Such a shame, really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5083123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Oh crumbs. Even the Dreadnoughts? Such a shame, really. It's no surprise, of course. 8th edition has been pretty stingy in offering all its special rules to the entire set of marine units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5083150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vigitant Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Oh crumbs. Even the Dreadnoughts? Such a shame, really. It's no surprise, of course. 8th edition has been pretty stingy in offering all its special rules to the entire set of marine units. Well, at least it applies to all armies... Wait, did i just see Ynnari Dark Reapers pile into that Alaitoc Wave Serpent? And it gets -1 outside of 12"??! Well, this is gonna hurt. RFAC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5083194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Wait, did i just see Ynnari Dark Reapers pile into that Alaitoc Wave Serpent? And it gets -1 outside of 12"??! Well, this is gonna hurt. RFAC Just more Eldar perfidy, to be expected from such a shifty and deceitful faction. Fortunately, we have the means to deal with such foes . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347241-mission-tacticsdoctrines-and-transports/#findComment-5083253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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