A fitting return for Russ....

[Kasper_Hawser]

...... for the fluff bunnies out there. Since we are sorely deprived of any news of the Wolves Codex and/or the return of Russ. How and what sort of situation will warrant the return of our beloved primarch? ("Our" meaning Space Wolves players as well as those who admire Russ and the Space Wolves).

 

Now obviously something REALLY bad has to happen first to bring, sad to say. And since Cadia has already been destroyed, Wrath of Magnus already happened, and the Devastation of Baal came short of annihilating the Blood Angels, the only one I can think of off course, would be the emergence of the biggest WAAAGH in the history of the Imperium since the War of the Beast, which will be the moment of triumph for Ork Players who will once again see the return of the Ork into play in the storyline without being relegated to "only a distraction to the true threat".

 

Of course there is no shortage of other galaxy ending foes, the biggest one apart from Chaos I believe would be the Tyranids. But due to the strong rumours about Ghazkull, it does seem if GW needs a massive event to justify the return of Russ, then the Ork Prime menace would be the most likely.

 

Then again, Mortarion only returned during a relatively minor warzone in Ultramarine story, so maybe Russ DOESN'T need a galaxy ending threat to make his entrance.

 

Would be cool if he did though. I just don't want it to be Orks. I want it to be Abaddon's new model to bring Russ out of his travels.

 

so to start the ball rolling, I would like your vote as well as personal expectation before I compile them to see what we all like:

 

1) Warzone event: Massive WAAAGH involving Prime Orks led by Ghazkull.

2) Campaign event:: New Black Crusade event involving Abaddon new model and perhaps ANOTHER daemon primarch although it would be really unfair.

3) Warzone event: A brand new Hive Fleet or one of the old ones hitting an important planet or system.

4) Campaign event: Some trump up scheme by Magnus and his Thousand Sons 

5) Dark Eldar Campaign against the Ynnari and Craftworld supporters.

 

Number 5 sounds weird I know but I'm just throwing an idea seldom used, after all what would xenos squabble matter to Russ? Except that for the most part, the Ynnari and by extension quite a few Eldar, SEEM committed to the idea of an alliance with humanity. Major development if Russ puts aside his xenos disdain and this time, provide untimely help to the damn pointy eared xenos. Especially if they provide a fast ticket to Terra or wherever Guilliman is.

 

Feedback is welcome, flames are not.

[Sete]

I supose we will see another daemon primarch before russ.

 

And i think they might be tackling Black Legion, since Ghazgull is on Helbrecth and yarrick sight.

 

So Abbadon might be their oponent, but i dont expect russ this year.

[Leif Bearclaw]

To be honest, I don't think they can pull it off if they go for something 'really big' if Fenris under attack (again) or Cadia weren't enough, then what? I'm also heartily sick of 'then this thing happened, and the Wolves took horrific casualties', you've played that song to death GW, try something else.

 

'Prime Orks' are kinda stupid (but that might be the name), anything that came out of Beast Arises is better off forgotten imo. I know there the whole 'more fight = bigger' thing, but that kind of Super Ork, like the Boss at Gorro, are better left in the mythology or HH than 'modern 40k'. Giving every faction a 'troop +1' to compete with Primaris is blatant 'sales over setting' BS that I wish they'd stop doing (but I know they won't, so eh).

 

New Black Crusade? I'd rather not have the Wolves involved in that. Because the Imperium will inevitably get shafted (because Abby Sue can't have things go south), and while I'm sick of that for the Imperium at large, I'm more sick of it happening to the Wolves.

 

Hive Fleet? Better than the first 2, but again GW's habit of 'Imperium can;t catch a break' comes in, and that'd probably result in some important Imperial World like Ryza or Cypra Mundi eaten by Nids. It was BS when it happened to Gryphonne IV, and it'd be BS again here.

 

Magnus? No thanks, not again. Wolves and Sons do more than fight only each other, both Legions don't need to be included every time one is.

 

DE? Only it's it's part of some zany scheme to find the Khan. So is probably a better fit for when a couple of Loyalists are back, and they pull some heist shenanigans to find Khan and return him to action.

 

Best case scenario, just bring Russ back. They've already shot the most thematic point for a return (Warzone Fenris, as much as I thought it was was the ideal time to hit the 'Wolftime' button and bring Daddy home). Of course it's also possible they'll bring him back as part of a 'challenge Gulliman' narrative, where there's intra Imperium tension between demi Gods, and they end up either schisming (boo) or getting over their just in time to turn back threatening villain of the week (much better).

 

That seems to have ended up more negative than I intended .

[Karhedron]

The opening of the Great Rift seems like a fitting contender for the "Wolf Time". It was the biggest shake-up of 40K's background in years (possibly the biggest since the original EoT campaign). If we are not in the Wolf Time, what sort of cataclysm would justify the title?

I always feel like Chaos is the biggest existential threat humanity faces and the return of the Primarchs should be linked to it in some way, just as the HH was. Other races represent massive threats to humanity and even the galaxy as a whole but Chaos is a battle for the soul of humanity, not just its physical existence. Having Russ come back to fight Xenos would seem somehow disappointing to me. Salamanders, Crimson Fists and Black Templars all have a bigger case to make for their animosity towards the Orks IMHO.

Having said that, I enjoyed the old batrep back in WD 157 when the original SW metals were released. Ragnar, Ulrik and Njal against Ghazkhull and his Goff horde was good fun and it would be cool to see it revisited on a bigger scale. And I will not say no to Russ coming back under pretty much any circumstances (as long as it is not crazy, feral Wulfen-Russ).

[Leif Bearclaw]

The opening of the Great Rift seems like a fitting contender for the "Wolf Time". It was the biggest shake-up of 40K's background in years (possibly the biggest since the original EoT campaign). If we are not in the Wolf Time, what sort of cataclysm would justify the title?

 

You're right, but all that happened over 100 years ago from the 'present' of 40k. If that's what causes Russ to return, what took him so long? Traffic?

[Kasper_Hawser]

To be honest, I don't think they can pull it off if they go for something 'really big' if Fenris under attack (again) or Cadia weren't enough, then what? I'm also heartily sick of 'then this thing happened, and the Wolves took horrific casualties', you've played that song to death GW, try something else.

 

'Prime Orks' are kinda stupid (but that might be the name), anything that came out of Beast Arises is better off forgotten imo. I know there the whole 'more fight = bigger' thing, but that kind of Super Ork, like the Boss at Gorro, are better left in the mythology or HH than 'modern 40k'. Giving every faction a 'troop +1' to compete with Primaris is blatant 'sales over setting' BS that I wish they'd stop doing (but I know they won't, so eh).

 

New Black Crusade? I'd rather not have the Wolves involved in that. Because the Imperium will inevitably get shafted (because Abby Sue can't have things go south), and while I'm sick of that for the Imperium at large, I'm more sick of it happening to the Wolves.

 

Hive Fleet? Better than the first 2, but again GW's habit of 'Imperium can;t catch a break' comes in, and that'd probably result in some important Imperial World like Ryza or Cypra Mundi eaten by Nids. It was BS when it happened to Gryphonne IV, and it'd be BS again here.

 

Magnus? No thanks, not again. Wolves and Sons do more than fight only each other, both Legions don't need to be included every time one is.

 

DE? Only it's it's part of some zany scheme to find the Khan. So is probably a better fit for when a couple of Loyalists are back, and they pull some heist shenanigans to find Khan and return him to action.

 

Best case scenario, just bring Russ back. They've already shot the most thematic point for a return (Warzone Fenris, as much as I thought it was was the ideal time to hit the 'Wolftime' button and bring Daddy home). Of course it's also possible they'll bring him back as part of a 'challenge Gulliman' narrative, where there's intra Imperium tension between demi Gods, and they end up either schisming (boo) or getting over their just in time to turn back threatening villain of the week (much better).

 

That seems to have ended up more negative than I intended .

 

You are entitled to your negativity. For my part, I thank you for giving the ( 3 ) Tyranid Hive Fleet idea more interest than ( 1 ) Orks or  (2 ) Black Crusade idea. And sadly, we're all a bit negative at this point which is why I'm starting this thread to blow some steam in different direction.

 

In retrospect, problem with making the Tyranids the foe would be almost like Copy paste from the Devastation of Baal, which the Blood Angels and their successors narrowly avoid extinction thanks to a bunch of dumb factors like Dante's plot armour (prophecy aka GW drivel), Guilliman breaking warp at the most conveninent time and worst of all, Kabandha being implied in fighting the Tyranids on Baal Prime so that no one else kills the Blood Angels.

 

Yeah Wrath of Magnus was a total missed chance for the return. therefore we shouldn't return to there. 

 

I still prefer Black Crusade because I want Russ to return to fight something OTHER than the villain of the week which is normally xenos. I want him to fight the MAIN villain, which as Karhedrouk mentions, is almost always Chaos. He put it aptly that while the other threats could destroy humanity, the soul is as, if not more important to save and that is why chaos is the more insidious than any other genestealer cult can be.

 

Sigh, GW. With the Indomitus crusade, they effectively turned the clock 5 minutes to midnight to 10 minutes to midnight. Same old same old again, except with Primaris reinforcement. And given the Dark Eldar and Deathwatch hints, I think we'll see the Primaris project backfire soon.

 

So maybe should ask ourselves, WHICH Chaos villain would make a good foil for return of Russ? Magnus obviously but apart from him and Abaddon? Mortarion seems tied up with Bobby G so i don't think so. 

 

On the other hand, since Chaos has two daemon primarchs already, LETS GO FIND THE KHAN! VROOOM VROOM! AWOOOOO!!!

 

Sorry, just spitting balls here.

[Dark_Jober]

Well... maybe we are not thinking in other ways... Let me explain...

 

Dark Angels new fluff talks about Lion full recovered but he is not awake... why?

Luther seems to be released by a chaotic Fallen faction, while a really big Fallen army is rising...

 

Why not returning both? The Lion and the Wolf. Two primarchs in the same box... both friends and rivals, when both chapters/legions are weak after heavy loses.

 

We are always thinking that internal tension in the Empire should be Russ and Guilliman... but it could be Lion and Russ, and Guilliman trying to control them and use them in his new Empire

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

More sense would be the Lion and Guilliman clashing (as seen in the HH Imperium Secundus arc) and Russ playing peace maker (as he did with Corax at Gaye 42)

[Bulwyf]

If/when Lion returns I think his ego is going to have him at odds with G-man. I can see Russ having to play peacemaker between them.

[Karhedron]

More sense would be the Lion and Guilliman clashing (as seen in the HH Imperium Secundus arc) and Russ playing peace maker (as he did with Corax at Gaye 42)

Only problem with that is it would just be a rehash of an existing HH plotline and would not really give us anything new. The old fluff was that the surviving loyalist Primarchs swore never to fight amongst themselves again after the HH having seen how easily their egos and differences could be exploited by Chaos.

 

Having them falling back into familiar patterns would undermine the character development in the HH novels as well as just being a retread.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

William King's novel states Russ left to find the seeds of the Tree of Life, which can heal the Emperor. Logically, his return should spark a massive war between the Imperium and Chaos, with various factions intervening for various reasons- factions in the Inquisition believing the "seeds of the Tree of Life" are a poison with which a potentially Chaos-tainted Primarch will kill the God-Emperor, the Orks seeking to seize what they believe are the "Heart of Gork (or Mork), the Eldar aiding or obstructing Russ' efforts to reach Terra to fulfill some prophecy, the psychic presence of these seeds drawing the Tyranids to them, Trazyn the Infinite seeking to add the seeds (and Russ himself) to the Necron Overlord's collection, etc.

[Guest Triszin]

William King's novel states Russ left to find the seeds of the Tree of Life, which can heal the Emperor. Logically, his return should spark a massive war between the Imperium and Chaos, with various factions intervening for various reasons- factions in the Inquisition believing the "seeds of the Tree of Life" are a poison with which a potentially Chaos-tainted Primarch will kill the God-Emperor, the Orks seeking to seize what they believe are the "Heart of Gork (or Mork), the Eldar aiding or obstructing Russ' efforts to reach Terra to fulfill some prophecy, the psychic presence of these seeds drawing the Tyranids to them, Trazyn the Infinite seeking to add the seeds (and Russ himself) to the Necron Overlord's collection, etc.

made me think of something, what if the emps is to far gone, and instead Russ uses the "seeds" on lion to wake him up?

 

other thing.

 

Russ is searching for the tree of life, or the life deity in 40k. which is the eldar goddess of Issha.

 

Who is held captive in Nurgles garden.

 

So if russ gets the "seeds" then my guess is, he frees Issha also bringing a new pantheon back to the eldar.

 

Eldar gives us Robby

 

Russ gives eldar Issha.

 

(this could also be a set up to pit russ and mort against each other.)

[Dark_Jober]

If Russ returns with the seeds... I think maybe Guilliman could oppose to healing the Emperor... I read somewhere he wasnt happy with the Emperor's ideas when he was on Terra in the private meeting they had in the Golden Throne and this is why he decided to become the Lord Commander and changing the Empire.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

If Russ returns with the seeds... I think maybe Guilliman could oppose to healing the Emperor... I read somewhere he wasnt happy with the Emperor's ideas when he was on Terra in the private meeting they had in the Golden Throne and this is why he decided to become the Lord Commander and changing the Empire.

Isn't Guilliman supposed to be the epitome of "loyalty" and "duty," meaning he'll obey an order, even if he thinks it's wrong? (Razing Monarchia and humbling the pre-Heresy Word Bearers- the very reason Lorgar turned traitor- being one such order.)

 

A better explanation would be the Emperor foresaw the seed's healing would disrupt the concentration He needed to keep the Warp storms form consuming Holy Terra itself. Guilliman should tell Russ to wait to administer the healing until AFTER the Wolf King meets their father, and let the Emperor personally explain this to Russ.

[Karhedron]

If Russ returns with the seeds... I think maybe Guilliman could oppose to healing the Emperor... I read somewhere he wasnt happy with the Emperor's ideas when he was on Terra in the private meeting they had in the Golden Throne and this is why he decided to become the Lord Commander and changing the Empire.

It wasn't the Emperor's orders that upset Guilliman so much as his attitude.

 

With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations.

 

A creation. Not a son.

 

The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor’s words burned him.

 

What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid.

 

The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp.

 

Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp!

Guilliman was hurt that the Emperor had abandoned all pretense of being a father. But that did not mean his ideal of a better future for humanity was worthless. The way I see it, Guilliman was forced to move on from venerating his Father to accepting the necessity of establishing his vision.

 

Quite how Russ would take a similar revelation is not clear. He referred to himself more than once as the Emperor's head-taker. While the HH novels show him as being fiercely loyal to the Emperor, it comes across more like loyalty to the alpha rather than loving a Father. Perhaps Russ recognised the Emperor's nature even before the HH and accepted it. Russ knew that he and his brothers were tools, not sons. And his purpose was blunt any tool that might pose a threat to their creator.

[TiguriusX]

your 2nd point hits the nail on the head

 

I think russ knew and accepted his purpose as a specific tool for the emperor

 

I think the post emperor HH universe was a cold dose of reality and the reason we changed from executioners to defenders of humanity

[mactire]

In the lore Russ just leaves, how about if he just returns. Say for instance there is some internal turmoil in the Fang  (The return of the 13th/problems with loyalty of the primaris/wulfen curse affecting the Primaris/order from Rob-G not to the Wolves liking), while the Great Companies bicker, maybe even come to blows or a standoff, a cloaked Odin figure appears.The Vlyka turn their guns and blades to him, the Wulfen and Fen Wolves kneel, he drops his cloak and the WolfKing stands before them once more.

 

Sometimes the best moment doesn't have to be the most over the top.

[Guest Triszin]

 

If Russ returns with the seeds... I think maybe Guilliman could oppose to healing the Emperor... I read somewhere he wasnt happy with the Emperor's ideas when he was on Terra in the private meeting they had in the Golden Throne and this is why he decided to become the Lord Commander and changing the Empire.

It wasn't the Emperor's orders that upset Guilliman so much as his attitude.

 

With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations.

 

A creation. Not a son.

 

The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor’s words burned him.

 

What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid.

 

The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp.

 

Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp!

Guilliman was hurt that the Emperor had abandoned all pretense of being a father. But that did not mean his ideal of a better future for humanity was worthless. The way I see it, Guilliman was forced to move on from venerating his Father to accepting the necessity of establishing his vision.

 

Quite how Russ would take a similar revelation is not clear. He referred to himself more than once as the Emperor's head-taker. While the HH novels show him as being fiercely loyal to the Emperor, it comes across more like loyalty to the alpha rather than loving a Father. Perhaps Russ recognised the Emperor's nature even before the HH and accepted it. Russ knew that he and his brothers were tools, not sons. And his purpose was blunt any tool that might pose a threat to their creator.

 

kind of a fitting thing.

 

30k wolves and russ

- executioners, would run in an murder kill everyone at the order. they might not enjoy it but they would do it.

- russ, knew himself a tool, hid his intellegence behind a primitive facade

 

40k wolves

- Stalwarts of humanity ( along with salamanders) they will fight even their allies to protect the citizens, they question most orders from the imperiums higher ups, especially the essecraty*sp?

- russ, in 40k? maybe he no longer views himself a tool, maybe he no longer puts up a primitive barbarian personae, and instead shows his intelligence, and his real personality.

[Gherrick]

In an epic twist of irony, Logan is really Russ in disguise...Merry Christmas!! (Which is about the same time our codex will get released...)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

In an epic twist of irony, Logan is really Russ in disguise...Merry Christmas!! (Which is about the same time our codex will get released...)

Russ is notably taller than Grimnar- William King's novels state the throne Grimnar sits in was made for a larger man- and making them the same person would be a posterior-pull of proportions comparable to 'The Last Jedi' reducing the First Order and the Resistance's conflict to a carbon copy of that between the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance. EVERYONE will hate it.

[Kasper_Hawser]

@ Karhedrouk - makes me respect Russ further if he himself realised the Emperor's true nature earlier and actually accepted that he and his sons might one day become obsolete and destroyed after they have lost their usefulness, because in the end, that guy has no humanity to love humanity individually, not sure if I make sense.

 

So no, i'm not going for the tree of life route, although it would be an interesting expansion of the Eldar idea I had earlier.

 

Seems like the Eldar idea has 3 offshoots now:

 

a) Get involve in Dark Eldar, Ynnari and Craftworld mess with Primaris/Custodian involvement thrown in as the Dark Eldar have supposedly captured both now and have started experimentation. Maybe for once, save the bloody eldar from themselves to flip the whole resurrection of Guilliman by Yvraine.

 

b) Webway plot which in the end, involves that massive centrepiece terrain that is bigger than a Wraithknight and ends in not one but TWO primarchs, Russ and Jagatai emerging. Although those two certainly aren't good friends.

 

c) Tree of Life route of searching for cure for Emperor and ending up with freeing an Eldar daemon entity instead which could be Isha who also has power over death somewhat, therefore fracturing/uniting the Eldar even more. Either way, indirectly end up another wrench in chaos plans as another competitior to the Dark Gods get loose.

 

@ Gherrick: Not funny. :P And sadly, I rather not remember William King's novel style. While not bad, it hasn't aged very well into the 2010s. 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

to be fair, The Master of Mankind shows that the person talking to the Emperor sees him in the guise that fits their perspective.

 

so for Guilliman, after his 10k nap, seeing an Imperium full of everything the Great Crusade stood against, probably has a skewered view of the Emperor. 

[Kasper_Hawser]

to be fair, The Master of Mankind shows that the person talking to the Emperor sees him in the guise that fits their perspective.

 

so for Guilliman, after his 10k nap, seeing an Imperium full of everything the Great Crusade stood against, probably has a skewered view of the Emperor. 

 

While certainly not infallible, if anyone has an unbiased "Practical" and "theoretical" about the Emperor and the Imperium, it will be Guilliman. And I agree with grandpa smurf for once. Shows that even as primarch arrogant as he is, grandpa smurf still recognises the importance of the little guy.

 

I guess that's what happens when a primarch actually have a MOTHER to raise you properly. Or parent anyway. Don't want to sound like I'm judgemental to those who through whatever cirumstances, grew up without parents or a parental figure. Even Russ had one, albeit a wolf and later a king.

[CaptainStabby]

Wolfsbane pretty clearly states that Russ knows who he is and what he and his brothers were made for. I don't think he would be surprised at the type of conversation he would have in modern times with corpse dad at all.

 

Besides, we still don't know if RG is, well actually RG or some sort of weird semi undead Eldar manchurian candidate or something. I don't think that's the route things are going, but there are lots of potential plot threads for GW to play with.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Read through all that was gonna comment basically what CaptainStabby said about Wolfsbane then read it as the last post lol.

 

I don't have the faintest idea how they would bring back Russ. An Ork storyline tie-in probably isn't workable. There are better-matched heroes to take part in an Ork storyline. Maybe a campaign that ties together all the previous Armegeddon war-participants would be climatic enough to bring back Russ. But that may be a better story for an Angron comeback.

I do like the idea of vs Abaddon or chaos. If the Abaddon starts another black crusade and penetrates even deeper that would be a good story arc.

Nids aren't the right villain for a Russ return.

Magnus would be fine but what the hell would he do that's worse than what they already have done to get Russ to come out? Unless it's something that Russ isn't able to come back quite yet. Is there any part of the prophesy that hasn't been fulfilled yet?

Dark Eldar = Khan.

 

The Isha and Tree of Life arc would be my favored way of doing it. It has the deepest foundation in fluff. I do hope he finds the Tree of Life. But maybe instead of being able to bring back the Emperor (which will probably never happen) they revive someone life Sanguinius, Dorn, or someone. Although bringing back Sanguinius would be silly at this point. It's a death that meant something. Maybe using it on Bobby G to make his resurrection permanent. 

 

The Isha storyline probably won't happen because that would have impact on the direction that GW want to take Eldar. It impacts the Ynnari arc if you bring back another Eldar God.

 

I hope he comes back with the Spear of the Emperor. That thing always was able to find Russ.