A fitting return for Russ....

[MaveriK]

1) Warzone event: Massive WAAAGH involving Prime Orks led by Ghazkull. Russ coming back here takes away from an already established lore between commissioner Yarrick vs Ghazkull. I can see maybe Salamanders tie in if they decided a comeback with Vulkan...

 

2) Campaign event:: New Black Crusade event involving Abaddon new model and perhaps ANOTHER daemon primarch although it would be really unfair. I'd rather see The Lion come back first before Russ. Best opportunity for DA to shine here, especially if you involve the Fallen and Luther. Papasmurf needs a warmaster, and master tactician. The Lion is a better candidate. Plus after the wrath of Magnus, not much is said after the changeling issue and Luther escaping...

 

3) Warzone event: A brand new Hive Fleet or one of the old ones hitting an important planet or system. This seems like a once every few months thing in the 40K galaxy so nothing new here and certainly not worth the effort... give it to the Ultras.

 

4) Campaign event: Some trump up scheme by Magnus and his Thousand Sons.

 

- BORING and over played theme. No imagination with GW when it comes to these guys vs wolves. The first battle of the Fang was EPIC. Second was cool. Third was lazy on GW part... would have mattered if Russ showed but no dice. Missed oppertunity.

 

5) Dark Eldar Campaign against the Ynnari and Craftworld supporters. Khan has more to do with this than Russ.

 

All those options seem boring or shortsighted to me. I dont see the emperor actually dying a final death from the throne as an option here but that alone would bring him out.

 

As someone mentioned before. The great rift happened 100yrs from current timeline but no Russ. I would rather have all or other loyalists primarchs return first before Russ. It's better to have Russ come last to indicate the dire need for killer like him to show up in the end.

[Dantay VI]

@ Karhedrouk - makes me respect Russ further if he himself realised the Emperor's true nature earlier and actually accepted that he and his sons might one day become obsolete and destroyed after they have lost their usefulness, because in the end, that guy has no humanity to love humanity individually, not sure if I make sense.

 

So no, i'm not going for the tree of life route, although it would be an interesting expansion of the Eldar idea I had earlier.

 

Seems like the Eldar idea has 3 offshoots now:

 

a) Get involve in Dark Eldar, Ynnari and Craftworld mess with Primaris/Custodian involvement thrown in as the Dark Eldar have supposedly captured both now and have started experimentation. Maybe for once, save the bloody eldar from themselves to flip the whole resurrection of Guilliman by Yvraine.

 

 Webway plot which in the end, involves that massive centrepiece terrain that is bigger than a Wraithknight and ends in not one but TWO primarchs, Russ and Jagatai emerging. Although those two certainly aren't good friends.

 

c) Tree of Life route of searching for cure for Emperor and ending up with freeing an Eldar daemon entity instead which could be Isha who also has power over death somewhat, therefore fracturing/uniting the Eldar even more. Either way, indirectly end up another wrench in chaos plans as another competitior to the Dark Gods get loose.

 

@ Gherrick: Not funny.  And sadly, I rather not remember William King's novel style. While not bad, it hasn't aged very well into the 2010s. 

 

 

Khan and Russ forgot their differences when Russ returned to Terra, so there is no acrimony between them unless I have missed something lore-wise which occurs after their meeting on Terra.

I actually like the idea that Russ returns to unite the disparate wolf factions (primaris, wulfen, 13th company and 40K wolves), by bringing them all under one undisputed leader. The only other who could do this would be Bjorn and we are not sure how accepting of him the 13th company would be as he was still a line trooper when they went into the warp portals rather than a jarl.

 

From here bring back the Lion and bring the Wolves to help face down the fallen legion. Repaying the DA for the "help" fighting off Magnus and the daemonic incursions over Fenris, thus revealing te DA secret to the Wolves, much like the SW secret about wulfen becoming no longer a secret.

 

RG asks both primarchs to swear fealty to him as ruler of the Imperium in the Emperors stead. Lion refuses and blames RG for the state of the Imperium. Russ intervenes and explains what has happened and offers the pragmatic solution of following RG up until such time as the Emperor is ready to lead the Imperium personally.

 

Russ knows where the seeds are, but between him and this is Nurgle and his armies. A new crusade is called and a new worldwide campaign. Prospero is now in the mortal realms, and it has gate ways, why not fight over Prospero and the system it is in, to take the portals and use psyker witchery to find a safe(ish) route to Nurgle daemon world to reclaim the seeds of life

 

Imperium goes on the offensive, facing down the heretics, other factions are brought in as they are drawn either to the conflict or the psychic conflict of what is happening etc. Eldar ca be both for because they see Isha as a way to escape the clutches of Slaanesh and against because by resurrecting the Emperor, the Wolf Time occurs as he will come back as a God and everything goes belly up aka WHFB causing the great final battle etc.....

[Karhedron]

Besides, we still don't know if RG is, well actually RG or some sort of weird semi undead Eldar manchurian candidate or something. I don't think that's the route things are going, but there are lots of potential plot threads for GW to play with.

The Dark Ipmerium novel has plenty of section written from Roboute's PoV. He clearly believes he is himself. I think we are meant to take his resurrection at face value.

[Karhedron]

The Isha storyline probably won't happen because that would have impact on the direction that GW want to take Eldar. It impacts the Ynnari arc if you bring back another Eldar God.

Actually the recent Harlie codex has stated that the Eldar are starting to believe that they may see their Pantheon refounded. Ynnead may not be a monotheistic deity but rather the herald of a new Eldar pantheon including Khaine, Cegorach and Isha.

 

The Isha storyline would actually tie into this very well.

[Guest Triszin]

That's why I am for the isha route.

 

Russ and old wolves break into nurgled garden and rescues isha.

 

In return isha pledges to find some way to help the emperor.

 

Russ repays the eldars resurrection of roboute by bringing them one of the long last eldar gods.

 

This also hurts nurgles ability to mass produce plagues

[UniWolf]

Here is how I would like Russ' return:

 

Russ left for a period of self-reflection, to assess what his visions for the Space Wolves are and to assess what role he wants them to take up upon his return. During this quest he hears rumours of this scared tree of life that bares the fruit with the potential to heal the emperor, and along side these murmurs hears a single name, Cypher. being the Great Wolf that he his, Russ manages to hunt down the un-trackable and exchanges words. In their conversation, Cypher informs Russ that the fruit of the tree won't hell the emperor but will wake and heal Lion El'Jonson. Russ decides to find the fruit to help his brother, and starts to carry out a scouting mission to the tree. Years pass by and Russ finally finds the tree but is going to need a lot of fire power to get to it. He meets with Cypher again to concoct a plan. Cypher sends word to the Dark Angels that he is on Garm, and that Logan Gimmnar wants to meet with Roboute (and Visa Versa). When they all arrive they are greeted by a cloaked man who raises is hand, then with a lighting bolt the Spear of Russ returns to him. Russ convinces them to go on a great crusade saying the fruit will cure the emperor. When they succeed in obtaining the fruit, Cypher steals it and takes it to Lion to wake him in return for the fallen to be forgiven. 

 

Reasons why I think this should happen:

• Cypher is a mysterious person who seems to act without (known) reason, and his movements could link with Russ well I think.
• The Lion and the Wolf stratagem doesn't make much sense to me. I get that it is very fluffy but who really has both wolves and dark angels? its a pointless stratagem unless there will be a campaign where these two armies will be together a lot IMO.
• This will give us our primarch and set up GW nicely for the release of another along side a campaign book. 
• The imperium needs to start being on the offensive as someone has already said and what better way then great crusade led by 2 primarchs aiming to resurrect another

 

 

[Ratherdashing]

A way they could bring him back without needing to invent another huge catastrophe to count as the Wolftime is to say that he left the Eye at the time of the Great Rift, but only now can come into the open because he:

 

:Tried to return but was hindered by something, like a Chaos Primarch

:Left the Eye to embark on some sort of quest rather than coming immediately back to the Fang

:Has been operating in the shadows for some reason

:Lost his memory and has been wandering as a lone warrior

:Left the Eye when the Great Rift happened but only just now exited due to Warp Time Shenanigans.

[MaveriK]

That's why I am for the isha route.

 

Russ and old wolves break into nurgled garden and rescues isha.

 

In return isha pledges to find some way to help the emperor.

 

Russ repays the eldars resurrection of roboute by bringing them one of the long last eldar gods.

 

This also hurts nurgles ability to mass produce plagues

Wait... so could the tree of life fluff be in reference to isha?

[Guest]

I feel as though the best return is a simple one. He was stuck in Tzeentch maze or Nurgles Garden (maybe rescuing Isha). When the ride opened it allowed him to escape.

 

If they go down the Isha path use that to revive Sanguinius. Yes his death had a purpose but the purpose of Primarch leaving and dieing is at a end. It is a new era of primarchs.

 

However the closer we get to release and the lack of a welcoming party or campaign makes me believe he is not returning.

 

That's why I am for the isha route.

Russ and old wolves break into nurgled garden and rescues isha.

In return isha pledges to find some way to help the emperor.

Russ repays the eldars resurrection of roboute by bringing them one of the long last eldar gods.

This also hurts nurgles ability to mass produce plagues

Wait... so could the tree of life fluff be in reference to isha?

It has been heavilly implied Isha and the Fenrisian Tree of Life are the same. The Eldar may have had talked to early Fenrisian and what was spoke became myth in time.

[Guest Triszin]

I feel as though the best return is a simple one. He was stuck in Tzeentch maze or Nurgles Garden (maybe rescuing Isha). When the ride opened it allowed him to escape.

 

If they go down the Isha path use that to revive Sanguinius. Yes his death had a purpose but the purpose of Primarch leaving and dieing is at a end. It is a new era of primarchs.

 

However the closer we get to release and the lack of a welcoming party or campaign makes me believe he is not returning.

 

That's why I am for the isha route.

Russ and old wolves break into nurgled garden and rescues isha.

In return isha pledges to find some way to help the emperor.

Russ repays the eldars resurrection of roboute by bringing them one of the long last eldar gods.

This also hurts nurgles ability to mass produce plagues

Wait... so could the tree of life fluff be in reference to isha?

It has been heavilly implied Isha and the Fenrisian Tree of Life are the same. The Eldar may have had talked to early Fenrisian and what was spoke became myth in time.

 

@MAV

Yep, Isha is the Eldar Goddess of life, and is hinted at being the tree of life. The goddess of healing, nurgle imprisoned her and infects her with his new plagues to see how long it takes her to overcome them. then she whispers the cures to mortals when nurgles attention is elsewhere

 

@Jarl

hmm, I never considered using Isha to heal Sanguin. that.... would be interesting.

[TheWolfLord]

Warzone - Wheel if Fire v2. Guilliman leads a huge force to battle Ghazgul who’s now leading an enormous Waaagh. Guilliman if verge of defeat and Russ storms back in and saves the day.

 

Russ has decided to search and collect the shards of Magnus and has been persuing the very first shard which was created when Magnus traded something of his.

[Gherrick]

Not that well versed on sanguinius lore, but is there anything left of his body at this point to do anything with? Was his body presevered somehow for 10k years?

[Guest]

Not that well versed on sanguinius lore, but is there anything left of his body at this point to do anything with? Was his body presevered somehow for 10k years?

Yes his body resides on Baal and his spirit is (pretty sure) the Sanguinor.

[Guest Triszin]

Additionally in the fight for Baal, someone heard a heart beat coming from sanguins sarcophagus

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Not that well versed on sanguinius lore, but is there anything left of his body at this point to do anything with? Was his body presevered somehow for 10k years?

Yes his body resides on Baal and his spirit is (pretty sure) the Sanguinor.

 

 

Yep, body is on Baal, and No on the spirit of Sanguinor being Sanguinus...... there WAS some poor soul who was the original Herald/body double of Sanguinus, which eventually became the Sanguinor due to.... well, complicated but arguably awesome reasons which is revealed in Ruinstorm novel.

 

If I read correctly, he voluntarily stayed in the warp to plug a hole which originally Sanguinus wanted to plug himself to enable his sons to reach Terra, but the poor sod kind of forced himself into the hole and made Sanguinus return to terra with everyone else. The last Sanguinus saw of him was apparently him sprouting wings himself.

 

If we follow the logic of 40K warp though, it is arguable he became the spirit of hope that reignited in Sanguinus when he saw that selfless act of his son. And subsequently, all Blood Angels poured on to this spirit of hope that expanded the Sanguinor's power, probably enabling him to finally reach ... for lack of better word, daemon prince power level so he can pop anytime he wants out of the warp, basically showing up whenever hope is needed.

 

Ah my head hurts thinking of this. As a Christian, sometimes the way GW uses biblical influences sometimes get on my nerves. But then, this is a game and fictional universe....

 

Damn you Matt Ward for inventing the sanguinor.

 

 

 

 

Here is how I would like Russ' return:

 

Russ left for a period of self-reflection, to assess what his visions for the Space Wolves are and to assess what role he wants them to take up upon his return. During this quest he hears rumours of this scared tree of life that bares the fruit with the potential to heal the emperor, and along side these murmurs hears a single name, Cypher. being the Great Wolf that he his, Russ manages to hunt down the un-trackable and exchanges words. In their conversation, Cypher informs Russ that the fruit of the tree won't hell the emperor but will wake and heal Lion El'Jonson. Russ decides to find the fruit to help his brother, and starts to carry out a scouting mission to the tree. Years pass by and Russ finally finds the tree but is going to need a lot of fire power to get to it. He meets with Cypher again to concoct a plan. Cypher sends word to the Dark Angels that he is on Garm, and that Logan Gimmnar wants to meet with Roboute (and Visa Versa). When they all arrive they are greeted by a cloaked man who raises is hand, then with a lighting bolt the Spear of Russ returns to him. Russ convinces them to go on a great crusade saying the fruit will cure the emperor. When they succeed in obtaining the fruit, Cypher steals it and takes it to Lion to wake him in return for the fallen to be forgiven. 

 

Reasons why I think this should happen:

• Cypher is a mysterious person who seems to act without (known) reason, and his movements could link with Russ well I think.
• The Lion and the Wolf stratagem doesn't make much sense to me. I get that it is very fluffy but who really has both wolves and dark angels? its a pointless stratagem unless there will be a campaign where these two armies will be together a lot IMO.
• This will give us our primarch and set up GW nicely for the release of another along side a campaign book. 
• The imperium needs to start being on the offensive as someone has already said and what better way then great crusade led by 2 primarchs aiming to resurrect another

 

 

 

 

I really like Uniwolf's idea, complicated though it is, it gives some screen time to the Dark Angels, and allows the two (ex) Legions to have some interesting drama. And strangely enough, I've liked Lion ever since he backstabbed Curze with a freaking broadsword. A Knight backstabbing the king of backstabbers. I love it....

 

.... other than that, Lion is an interesting character despite the nonsensical way Gav Thorpe has written him (and DA in general).

[Guest]

It was revealed that Sanguinor is Sanguinius or at least part of him.

 

The Sanguinor had come to him at the end of his service.

 

‘You came,’ he said. His throat was dry, his lips numb. The beautiful voice that had inspired millions was a harsh whisper. ‘You came after all.’

 

The Sanguinor kept its silence, but stood back and flung an arm wide to indicate a greater presence behind it.

 

Dante’s breath caught in his chest. Once again, he saw the face of Sanguinius, but this was no metal representation. The face was of flesh, the wings that spread either side of his body were white feathers, not cold sculpture. His body was as real as his sorrow. He shone like a desert sun in the full glory of noon, a bringer of light dangerous in its incandescent power.

 

‘My son,’ Sanguinius said. ‘My greatest son.’

[Guest Triszin]

It was revealed that Sanguinor is Sanguinius or at least part of him.

 

The Sanguinor had come to him at the end of his service.

 

‘You came,’ he said. His throat was dry, his lips numb. The beautiful voice that had inspired millions was a harsh whisper. ‘You came after all.’

 

The Sanguinor kept its silence, but stood back and flung an arm wide to indicate a greater presence behind it.

 

Dante’s breath caught in his chest. Once again, he saw the face of Sanguinius, but this was no metal representation. The face was of flesh, the wings that spread either side of his body were white feathers, not cold sculpture. His body was as real as his sorrow. He shone like a desert sun in the full glory of noon, a bringer of light dangerous in its incandescent power.

 

‘My son,’ Sanguinius said. ‘My greatest son.’

what book was this from?

[Guest]

Devastation of Baal

[Kasper_Hawser]

It was revealed that Sanguinor is Sanguinius or at least part of him.

 

The Sanguinor had come to him at the end of his service.

 

‘You came,’ he said. His throat was dry, his lips numb. The beautiful voice that had inspired millions was a harsh whisper. ‘You came after all.’

 

The Sanguinor kept its silence, but stood back and flung an arm wide to indicate a greater presence behind it.

 

Dante’s breath caught in his chest. Once again, he saw the face of Sanguinius, but this was no metal representation. The face was of flesh, the wings that spread either side of his body were white feathers, not cold sculpture. His body was as real as his sorrow. He shone like a desert sun in the full glory of noon, a bringer of light dangerous in its incandescent power.

 

‘My son,’ Sanguinius said. ‘My greatest son.’

 

Hmmmm, ok a part of the original herald then. As mentioned, at best a spirit of hope from Sanguinus, since nearly every warp touched being in 40K seems subject to fragmentation of soul and manifestations (looking at you Magnus).

 

I did read DoB, but that passage to me was just an afterlife vision thingie, rather than implying Sanguinor is Sanguinus. After all, he "indicated" a greater presecnce behind it. It's not like he took of his helmet and reveals himself to really be Sanguinus.

 

A bit off topic, but I'll close stating that DoB kinda sucked, basically 3/4 of the book was the Blood Angels getting their butts kicked and kicking butt at the same time.

 

Back to topic, earlier someone mentioned that Russ and Jagatai forgot their old differences. I wouldn't say forgot, more like Russ and Jagatai came to an understanding that despite their differences, Horus was still the enemy and therefore, their old feuds were unimportant. Would be a nice story line to see 40K Russ and Jagatai finally reconcile and come out of the cold. 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

 

The Isha storyline probably won't happen because that would have impact on the direction that GW want to take Eldar. It impacts the Ynnari arc if you bring back another Eldar God.

Actually the recent Harlie codex has stated that the Eldar are starting to believe that they may see their Pantheon refounded. Ynnead may not be a monotheistic deity but rather the herald of a new Eldar pantheon including Khaine, Cegorach and Isha.

 

The Isha storyline would actually tie into this very well.

 

 

Interesting. The Isha arc would be the most intriguing story to me. But those dang greedy Eldars getting all their gods back... Although if we are expecting to get more Primarchs (our demigods) back then I guess they can get a pantheon in return. I wonder if Vect's resurrection has something to do with him vaulting into the Pantheon in some way. He calls himself the Living Muse so if that draws some measure of power into him then I can see it happening. I do see him as a Dark Eldar deity to some extent. He does control 1/3 of the Eldar population. I am sure he gets some soul-pleasure from being the one with the iron-grip on the Dark City. A small amount of each instance of suffering helping to sustain his soul-cravings. Such a tangent to the topic, my apologies.

 

I hope Sanguinius doesn't come back. Every other Primarch loves and adores Sanguinius and he would be defacto new-emperor. We would just get an Imperium Secondus again. Although it would be a beautiful model.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I hope Sanguinius doesn't come back. Every other Primarch loves and adores Sanguinius and he would be defacto new-emperor. We would just get an Imperium Secondus again. Although it would be a beautiful model.

You can have the Knights of Blood (a renegade Blood Angels descendant, sharing a Khornate war band's name) claim Sanguinius is the Blood God's son, drawing Russ into a campaign in which the Blood Angels and their descendants are both allies and enemies.

 

Naturally, Russ will aid the loyalist Sons of Sanguinius in purging their Chapters of the Chaos worshipping deviants.

[Dantay VI]

Weren't the Knights of Blood completely wiped out by the Tyranids in Devastation of Baal

[TrawlingCleaner]

Weren't the Knights of Blood completely wiped out by the Tyranids in Devastation of Baal

They were wiped out by a mix of tyranids and Ka'bundha and daemons. They were renegade but loyal until the end, their chapter master even defied Ka'bundha s rage amplifying powers and told him to stick his offer of khorne where the sun don't shine

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

I hope Sanguinius doesn't come back. Every other Primarch loves and adores Sanguinius and he would be defacto new-emperor. We would just get an Imperium Secondus again. Although it would be a beautiful model.

You can have the Knights of Blood (a renegade Blood Angels descendant, sharing a Khornate war band's name) claim Sanguinius is the Blood God's son, drawing Russ into a campaign in which the Blood Angels and their descendants are both allies and enemies.

 

Naturally, Russ will aid the loyalist Sons of Sanguinius in purging their Chapters of the Chaos worshipping deviants.

 

 

Oh this is so wrong on so many levels Firewalker. I read Devastation of Baal. The Knights of Blood died to the last man fighting Kabandha himself. they may be hideous blood drinkers, but they ain't no Khorne heretics. Not one of them gave followed Khorne.

 

They've died with honor. Let's not besmirch their sacrifice.

 

@ Wolf Guard Dan - Amen, dead is dead, let's not belittle Sanguinus sacrifice for the little guys of the Imperium.

[Gederas]

 

 

 

I hope Sanguinius doesn't come back. Every other Primarch loves and adores Sanguinius and he would be defacto new-emperor. We would just get an Imperium Secondus again. Although it would be a beautiful model.

You can have the Knights of Blood (a renegade Blood Angels descendant, sharing a Khornate war band's name) claim Sanguinius is the Blood God's son, drawing Russ into a campaign in which the Blood Angels and their descendants are both allies and enemies.

 

Naturally, Russ will aid the loyalist Sons of Sanguinius in purging their Chapters of the Chaos worshipping deviants.

Oh this is so wrong on so many levels Firewalker. I read Devastation of Baal. The Knights of Blood died to the last man fighting Kabandha himself. they may be hideous blood drinkers, but they ain't no Khorne heretics. Not one of them gave followed Khorne.

 

They've died with honor. Let's not besmirch their sacrifice.

 

@ Wolf Guard Dan - Amen, dead is dead, let's not belittle Sanguinus sacrifice for the little guys of the Imperium.

Firewalker is referring to the fact that there's a Chapter named the Knights of Blood as well as a presumed Khornate Chaos Marine Warband called Knights of Blood

 

The issue is that we've got next to nothing about both of those groups in terms of lore :lol: All we know about the latter is they were involved in some campaigns.