deadangel101 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I don't want to run a soup army. With that in mind, I came up with the following list: Raven Guard Battalion Detachment: 880 124 Captain: jump pack, combi-melta, power fist, armor indomitus, warlord- iron resolve (PL 6) 67 Lieutenant: MC boltgun, power sword (PL 4) 55 5 Scouts: 4 boltguns, sgt w combat blade (PL 6) 55 5 Scouts: 4 boltguns, sgt w combat blade (PL 6) 55 5 Scouts: 4 combat blades, sgt w chainsword (PL 6) 177 3 Inceptors: plasma (PL 10) 177 3 Inceptors: plasma (PL 10) 170 5 Devastators: 4 lascannons, cherib (PL 8) Raven Guard Vanguard Detachment: 506 63 Lieutenant: MC boltgun, chainsword (PL 4) 222 6 Aggressors: auto boltstorm & fragstorm (PL 12) 111 3 Aggressors: auto boltstorm & fragstorm (PL 6) 111 3 Aggressors: auto boltstorm & fragstorm (PL 6) Raven Guard Air Wing Detachment: 612 204 Stormtalon: 2 lascannons (PL 9) 204 Stormtalon: 2 lascannons (PL 9) 204 Stormtalon: 2 lascannons (PL 9) Total: 1999 Command Points: 10 Strike from the Shadows with Aggressors, obviously. Scouts are planted on objectives or in forward positions. Stormtalons take on targets of opportunity. Inceptors and the Captain drop in turn 2 and engage something scary. Comments and criticisms welcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Looks like a solid list with tons of anti infantry and anti tank. Drop the power fist and get a thunder hammer. You have the -1 either way, go for the solid 3 damage everytime. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5083737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 Power fist is pretty good for 12 points, but I'll think about the hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5083973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 I was wondering about swapping 6 aggressors and a lieutenant for 6 inceptors with assault bolters. Slightly less firepower and 1 less command point, but more mobility and flexibility. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5084064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 What's your preference: firepower or mobility? Play-test the list a few times and proxy that unit to see how YMMV ^_^ If my opinion mattered, to "be" Raven Guard, then mobility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5084113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 Well I have all the inceptors already, but only 6 of the 12 aggressors. So I guess there is my answer! If the inceptors aren't cutting it, I'll invest in more aggressors. Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5084133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I’d go with your list as is. You have plenty of Aggressors and having just 3 Inceptors is like having none after their initial arrival. Anything not labeled anti-tank is going to pour into those 3 until they’re gone. Pretty much need a full squad to be effective more than a turn, and negates the main reason for Cap to have a Jump Pack reroll “1”s Only thing I’m not fan of is the Devestators because ... not Primaris (yeah Scouts get a pass - because I’m converting Reivers :)) it’s a visual thing. Really your list as is looks rock solid you should test it out as is and post pics ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5084402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbarne Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I actually just played a game a few weeks ago against Guard with a very similar list: **Battalion Detachment** + HQ + Captain: Chainsword, Jump Pack, Storm bolter, *Teeth of Terra* Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun + Troops + 2x Intercessor Squad 1x Scout Squad w/Boltguns + Fast Attack + 2x Inceptor Squad: Plasma Exterminator + Flyer + 2x Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons **Vanguard Detachment** + HQ + Kayvaan Shrike + Elites + Aggressor Squad: 6x Aggressors w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher Vanguard Veteran Squad: 4x Twin LC. 1x Chainsword & Storm shield 2x Venerable Dreadnought: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon --- So I had Ven Dreads instead of devs and a third talon. I also had a few bits different such as some van vets, intercessors instead of more Aggressors. Thoughts on your list: I'm digging the number of Aggressors. Though I'm debating the move to split them up into groups of 6, 3, and 3. I get it for that juicy extra CP, but you spend it to SftS anyways. Also you've got two Lt. Your milage may vary, but for this list I really like: - One jump pack captain to escort the Inceptors or they'll blow themselves up all the time - One Chapter master (via CP or Shrike) for the Aggressors for all the rerolls - 1-2 Lt if you can afford two With the three units of scouts and then a bunch of 18" weapons and vehicles, your list hurts when it comes to sitting on progressive objectives and racking up points. I'm not sure about Plasma Inceptors post FAQ. Since they have to come down 9.01" away, the likelyhood they can target something important is tough. In fact, even getting first turn against a Guard player with Aggressors, he had so much chaff they couldn't come down and do their thing. With 12 Aggressors, you may have better luck :). Lastly, maybe consider making one of those Talons a Hawk with a Lastalon & Skyahmmer? If you face Tau or Eldar, the Talon's will really suffer against <FLY> Having at least one Hawk hedges your bets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5084458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 I was actually thinking of splitting the 6 aggressor squad into combat squads. Gives me 4 squads of 3. Extra command points spent, but it also makes them virtually immune to morale. I do like the idea of a chapter master backing the aggressors, maybe in two squads of 6. Would leave me with only 5 command points after the upgrade and SftS though. I had planned on the scouts and lieutenants grabbing objectives in and out of my deployment zone. Plasma inceptors backed by a captain are fantastic. They average 16 wounds supercharging against T8, 3+ models. They pretty much obliterate anything weaker. And they do it before your opponent has a chance to stop them. As a side note, 6 inceptors with plasma run you 354 points and carry essentially the same fire power as 3 squads of plasma devs, which run you 438 without cherubs. Inceptors can also deep strike, move 10 inches, and move and fire without penalty. Devs can't do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5084619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 Another note on the Stormtalons. They are made to target ground targets. Ground targets can score. Fliers cannot. If my opponent is bringing his or her own fliers, chances are they will be targeting my fliers with them. Even with one wound left, a Stormtalon can go into hover mode, stop on a dime, and still hit ground targets on a 4+. You must kill them to end their threat. I'm going to largely ignore my opponent's fliers (other than targets of opportunity) because if that is all he or she has left, they lose. Obviously, you guys are free to disagree. Maybe I'm missing something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5084630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbarne Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Another note on the Stormtalons. They are made to target ground targets. Ground targets can score. Fliers cannot. If my opponent is bringing his or her own fliers, chances are they will be targeting my fliers with them. Even with one wound left, a Stormtalon can go into hover mode, stop on a dime, and still hit ground targets on a 4+. You must kill them to end their threat. I'm going to largely ignore my opponent's fliers (other than targets of opportunity) because if that is all he or she has left, they lose. Obviously, you guys are free to disagree. Maybe I'm missing something. Your milage may vary depending on your meta :). Tau field tons of units with the <FLY> keyword such as Riptides, Ghostkells, Stealth Suits, Commanders, etc. Eldar have jetbikes, grav tanks, and especially those pesky Wave Serpents that are sure to be spammed. The Talons won't get their bonus to hit them, so if they move they're hitting on 4's. Likewise if it's Alaitoc possibly hitting on 5's or even 6's if they toss a psychic power or lightening fast reflexes on it. Similarly for the Ghostkeel it can have up to an additional -2 to to hit. That said, you can park your Talon's near a chapter master and not move. You lose your defenses but gain a 3+ with full rerolls for <FLY> and a 2+ with rerolls for not <FLY>. A Stormhawk is a bit tougher and is great vs <FLY> but it critically lacks the hover ability. Positioning them is always a challenge and you get 1, maybe two turns max in your reroll bubble. As for the plasma Inceptors, I love the idea of them as well. Pre FAQ they would delete whatever they wanted when they wanted. Post FAQ I haven't had a ton of games, but found that an opponent can really zone them out with tons of chaff moving forward turn one such that they can't drop down within 18" of something valuable. Then even though they're T5 3+ 2W, they got plasma'd to death. I think with the number of Aggressors you have that could definitely be much less of an issue :). Let us know how the list goes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5085321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 18, 2018 Author Share Posted May 18, 2018 I see what you're saying on the Stormhawk. I already have the 3 talons built, so I'm going to try them out and see how it goes. It seems most everyone is in agreement on the 12 aggressors, so I'll be adding the next 6 as soon as I'm able. I will definitely let everyone know how things work out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5085507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I see what you're saying on the Stormhawk. I already have the 3 talons built, so I'm going to try them out and see how it goes. It seems most everyone is in agreement on the 12 aggressors, so I'll be adding the next 6 as soon as I'm able. I will definitely let everyone know how things work out. Your list looks like the strongest possible list you could produce with C:SM without soup. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5085606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Aggressors clear the chaff so the Interceptors can bring the heat :) Its a good list that applies pressure from Turn One and cranks it up Turn Two. Wish I had the cahones to add three Talons. Just too many points in three models for me, but they really sing in this list I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5085692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Aggressors clear the chaff so the Interceptors can bring the heat :) I see what you did there :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5085694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 It’s not a bad list, you’ve got enough bodies to make it last quite a bit! A few weaknesses to consider that you’ll have to play around : - Lack of long range weaponry : You mainly rely on a high number of las cans on your Stormtalons and your Devas. You’ll take 10 wounds off a Land Raider on avg, but if any of these units drop, you’re in serious trouble. When facing against horses, your best source is close range (Aggressors and Assault Cannons) so you will need to have good discipline in hanging up all aggressors and Stromtalons on a few isolated squads to avoid being swarmed. - HQ heavy : I understand the need for a Vanguard for the xtra CP, but is paying 63 pts for it worth it ? For the price of your 2nd Lieutnants, you lose a CP but can add a combat squad of Scouts for more meat and more drops. Up to you at this stage. - Lack of melee : Aside from the Captain, you have no melee powerhouse units for counter assault if need You have to make absolutely sure that you go for the kill before melee range when you play your units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5087036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Another idea might be to (IMO) better support the units you have effectiveness. You could try something I’m going to do. Lose one model from the Inceptors and maybe the Aggressors also and upgrade your Lieutenants to Captains. Who are there specifically to make sure you get the most out of those two units. I am definitely not a fan of bubble gun lines but it’s my opinion the buff from the Cpt. vs that of the Lt. is worth the extra cost if applied to a specific strike team. In my game plan a strike team consist of two or more units designed to work together to achieve an objective. The Captain stat line is of secondary importance to the buff he gives. Mathematically you are going to get more opportunities to reroll to hits than you are to wounds. So, as long as it doesn’t disrupt the overall game plan. In your army it is a less useful concept because I use Hellblasters to support my forward units and you’re using Storm Talons (which with a slight conversion is a model I love myself). So as they say mileage may vary but I’m pretty sure if mobilized properly the Captain would buff them also. I like a lot of what Grey Crow says but would argue 5+ strong Aggressors are a good (not great) melee unit supported by a Captain Smashypants or Shrike :) Off Topic: a Strategem or unit like the Damocles Rhino(?) to extend or better yet use a buff at range would be interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5087129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 My bad, forget the last comment, forgot that the Aggressors’ gauntlets are decent melee weapons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5087578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 With all that dakka it’s easy to forget ... and really in the end they are no better than a bunch of Terminators with powerfist. +1A then they’d be scary in melee. Like everything Primaris (Marine really) they’re just a notch short of being potentially top table material. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5087772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 No we are getting down to some specifics. I like it. I'll be posting some amendments in the next couple days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5087895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 Updated list. Let me know what you think. Raven Guard Battalion Detachment: 1388 124. Captain: jump pack, combi-melta, power fist, relic- armor indomitus, warlord- iron resolve (PL 6) 76. Captain: storm bolter, chainsword (PL 5) 55. 5 Scouts: 4 boltguns, sgt w combat knife (PL 6) 55. 5 Scouts: 4 boltguns, sgt w combat knife (PL 6) 55. 5 Scouts: 4 boltguns, sgt w connat knife (PL 6) 55. 5 Scouts: 4 combat knives, sgt w chainsword (PL 6) 222. 6 Aggressors: auto boltstorm and fragstorm (PL 12) 222. 6 Aggressors: auto boltstorm and fragstorm (PL 12) 354. 6 Inceptors: plasma exterminators (PL 20) 170. 5 Devastators: 4 lascannons, armorium cherub (PL 8) Raven Guard Air Wing Detachmemt: 612 204. Stormtalon: twin assault cannon, 2 lascannons (PL 9) 204. Stormtalon: twin assault cannon, 2 lascannons (PL 9) 204. Stormtalon: twin assault cannon, 2 lascannons (PL 9) Total Points: 2000 Some thoughts on this version: Extra scout squad allows for more objective grabs and forward deployment shenanigans. Combining aggressors and inceptors into 6 man squads makes for fewer drops and saves some command points on SFtS. They can always be split into combat squads if I feel it is necessary during deployment. I've thought about switch one stormtalon for a stormhawk, but I really want to see how 3 talons do first. (All 3 are already built.) Not sure about trimming back the aggressors for more anti-tank. I think I want to see how this list gets on first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5089697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbarne Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Super solid list, but I'm wondering if the second captain should be a Lt. The only thing I'd tweak is to replace two lascannons on the devs for a missile launcher and heavy bolter. It gives you the option to use hellfire or flakk twice. With that and maybe making your first captain a bit cheaper by dropping the combi melta maybe you can squeeze a Lt in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5089727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadangel101 Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 I think I would rather keep the captain than go for a lieutenant. I'll think about the mixed dev squad. I'm honestly not sold on the idea. How much difference do the strategems really make? Maybe someone who has used that load out could enlighten me? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5089750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I think I would rather keep the captain than go for a lieutenant. I'll think about the mixed dev squad. I'm honestly not sold on the idea. How much difference do the strategems really make? Maybe someone who has used that load out could enlighten me? What smbarne is talking about is a neat little combo. You use either the Flakk Missle stratagem or Hellfire stratagem on your dev squad. You then amp his BS with the Signum, then pop off, use your Cherub, and pop off again. That ends up being 2D3 Mortal Wounds that hit on a 2+. Based on the scope of the stratagems, you can basically do it to nearly anything. Its decent but not game-breakingly-good. Its a neat tool to have in your belt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5090052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 SPLOIT! Not really, but it's a fun word to use around. Good analysis :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347355-post-faq-rg-2k/#findComment-5090067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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