Back Field Units

[Black Knight]

Now our codex is out I have a million questions and ideas that I would like to share so instead of just reading the forums for over a year, I will say hello.

 

I've been looking at a back field team from my army with Stalker Bolters and now I am faced with with the question of either Veterans or Primaris teams.

 

The Primaris team has extra wounds but less shots with the rifles. Range is 6" more but Vengeance is partly wasted with the rifles capped at -2AP

 

The Veterans have an extra shot with 6" less but Vengence increases that to the same as the Intercessors and the same -AP. This group can also take Missle launchers, Heavy Bolters for the Hellfire Strategem and Stormshields(Almost forgot Terminator CMissles).

 

The Primaris can take the Heavy Plasma so that's a bonus but I am unsure how effective splitting the damage of a Missle Launcher over three plasma models is?

 

I was also thinking of running the Vets in a Las-cannon Razor Back and I am not taking a Repulsor just for the backfield team, that will probably not move much.

 

Also looking at the Primaris Watch Captain and Watch Captain I am seeing a 20~ point increase for an extra wound. Watch Captain has two shots at 1 Damage and Primaris Watch Captain has 1 shot at 2 Damage. Same differences with range and Vengence rounds.

 

I got excited when we got Primaris marines that I have converted my Dark Imperium Primaris to Stalkers(...the cuts on my thumbs) but now I don't see why you would take a backfield Primaris group unless there is a good Primaris group to combat squad with it? Even then would you prefer to combat them with Rapid fire instead?

[Finkmilkana]

I feel like Primaris are pretty nice for mid field duty, having a higher range than vets with rapid fire weapons and more wounds. For true backfield, veterans again seem to be better suited to me, for the reasons you mentioned. The damage of the Primaris stalker bolt rifle is just pitiful and it has no synergy with SIA. The heavy plasma hellblasters are not much better. All long range Primaris are just lacking.

 

The Primaris captain is also just pointless right now unless you have an empty seat in a repulsor that you want to put him in (and even then a jump pack might be better).

[shanewatts]

Quad Mortars. Hide out of LoS on an objective and keep shooting. Downside is no benefit from mission tactics.

[MoGuy]

I'm currently assembling a Kill Team of seven dudes for backfield anti-tank duty. 4 Guys (incl. Sarge) with Stalker Bolters + 1 Guy with Stalker Bolter and SS and 2 Guys with Missile Launchers. They can sit in cover all game on an objective and take some shots at vehicles with the ML and targets of opportunity with the SPBs. 

[LucidNinja]

Wait wouldn't primaris be ap-2 with 36" range on the standard rifles with kraken rounds. Them with 4 or 5 hellblasters. Was thinking 4 with the heavy plasma and a dakka aggressor to move the heavys with no penalty. Add a primaris Captain with stalker rifle and relic ammo to help with the over heats.

[Kisada]

Wait wouldn't primaris be ap-2 with 36" range on the standard rifles with kraken rounds. Them with 4 or 5 hellblasters. Was thinking 4 with the heavy plasma and a dakka aggressor to move the heavys with no penalty. Add a primaris Captain with stalker rifle and relic ammo to help with the over heats.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not a competitive tournament type player.  

 

I got to play a game recently and used a primaris stalker bolt rifle team with 4 heavy plasma and a dakka aggressor just as you have mentioned.  Now I know it was just one game, but they really felt lack luster.  Even with the move and shoot ... its just 5 stalker shots and 4 heavy plasma shots ... and I felt like I had to keep the captain near them the whole time.  

 

Maybe it also had to do with the type of targets that my opponent was presenting them ... I'm planning on trying them again.

 

I also had 2 units of 5 intercessor with Bolt Rifles, 2 hell blasters with plasma incinerators, and a plasma inceptor.  This squad was fun ... very mobile ... scary mid range damage output and flexibility.

 

MVP of the game was the deep striking leviathan ... it almost made me feel bad for using it (but my opponent had his own hellforged leviathan so lol).

 

The redemptor is meh still ... being DW adds nothing to it ... I'm trying to stay all primaris but I don't think its going to work ... I'm looking at veteran/bike squads.

 

Also as Finkmilkana said ... the primaris captain is meh also

[shandwen]

While plasma can be great for hellblasters, I would consider it to be only marginally better than regular SIA rounds. It doesn't do that much extra damage while it still costs more. I would suggest going either a "hold" stragegy with just intercessors, or an offensive patern with old marines.

[Kisada]

While plasma can be great for hellblasters, I would consider it to be only marginally better than regular SIA rounds. It doesn't do that much extra damage while it still costs more. I would suggest going either a "hold" stragegy with just intercessors, or an offensive patern with old marines.

 

Run with a captain or live on the edge and overcharge all the shots.  I felt the S8 -4ap 2dam was great.

[LucidNinja]

Kisada I have a squad of stalker intercessors in my celestial lions force and they are pretty lackluster. I think the bolt rifle would suit better in the backfield role, you still get ap-2 just with 6" less reach and more flexibility when things get closer. I'm not building a deathwatch force any time soon but may proxy my celestial lions to play test.

 

Did you deep strike the redemptor? I feel that the dakka redemptor could be decent for the sudden "I have to deal with that now" but compared to a Leviathan it's a lot less threatening haha.

[Kisada]

Kisada I have a squad of stalker intercessors in my celestial lions force and they are pretty lackluster. I think the bolt rifle would suit better in the backfield role, you still get ap-2 just with 6" less reach and more flexibility when things get closer. I'm not building a deathwatch force any time soon but may proxy my celestial lions to play test.

 

Did you deep strike the redemptor? I feel that the dakka redemptor could be decent for the sudden "I have to deal with that now" but compared to a Leviathan it's a lot less threatening haha.

 

Totally agree that the stalkers were lack luster ... I don't have a traditional Deathwatch force ... I have a Last Wall Imperial Fists and friends Primaris force.  I went with that army because I get tired of painting just one paint scheme and I love the Imperial Fists.  I felt that the different splashes of color went well with the DW.  (I have Celestial Lions for inceptors  )

 

I had 2 redemptors in my list.  One dakka and one plasma.  I dropped the plasma one with my leviathan together.  He was more there as "distraction carnifex" to run blocking for the leviathan.  I felt that it worked because the big 90mm base made it harder for my opponent to charge my leviathan so I was able to get 2 rounds of storm cannon shots before I charged in on my terms.

[LucidNinja]

My celestial lions could pretty much be ran as deathwatch and be better with just the SIA. I feel primaris make a great back field team and Veterans are better suited for the mid range and cc. Primaris can't beat the weight of fire of storm bolters.

[Kisada]

True

4 S4 -1AP 1Dam shots at 15"

vs

2 S4 -2AP 1Dam shots at 18" 

 

but the rapid fire hellblasters and the plasma inceptor were great ... I liked the plasma inceptors so much after my first game that I bought a box (I was using my assault bolter ones from DI as proxies).

[Vel'Cona]

but the rapid fire hellblasters and the plasma inceptor were great ... I liked the plasma inceptors so much after my first game that I bought a box (I was using my assault bolter ones from DI as proxies).

 

Hellblasters are easily the most influential of the Primaris units, in that they bring the uniform weapon concept from Legion-era units but do so with an even more powerful version of the already edition-premium Plasma Gun.  Being able to "splash" them into Kill Teams for ablative wounds, Deep Strike them with the Teleportarium Strategem and gain access to MT/Doctrine Strategems is the icing on the cake for a unit that was already a diamond in the rough for the otherwise "meh" Primaris units (though I like Intercessors too).

[Sea Reaper]

Thoughts on a Stalker unit with an Aggressor and heavy plasma Hellblasters for unrestricted movement? I am totally green this edition so I have no idea if this is viable.

[Kisada]

Thoughts on a Stalker unit with an Aggressor and heavy plasma Hellblasters for unrestricted movement? I am totally green this edition so I have no idea if this is viable.

I only used them once. I’m also not a competitive player. Anyway, I didn’t really like this unit. 5 stalker BR shots and 4 heavy plasma shots just didn’t seem worth the cost.

[LucidNinja]

I think the intercessors stalkers are really quite useless. I have a squad in my lions army and they are lack luster at best. The heavy plasma might be worth it however, wounding heavy vehicles on 2's potentially is amazing and with not many lascannon options in the dex I see there value, mobility is something this unit shouldn't need so maybe 5 bolt rifles and 5 heavy hellblasters near a captain.