Webway Assault

[CrystalSeer]

Quick question:

 

Is there a difference between strategems if they are listed from different factions / codexes?

 

Both Codex Harlequins and Craftworlds have the 'Webway Assault' strategem, which is limited to once per game. However, you unlock them as separate detachments, and there's no rules interaction between the different sets I am aware of. So does that mean:

 

 

 

A )  You can play both, because they are different strategems called the same thing and referring to different factions? 

 

B )  You can only play one, because different faction strategems can interact (ref would be appreciated)?

[BluejayJunior]

You can only use it once if they have the same name per the main rulebook FAQ.

 

Q: For the purposes of the Strategic Discipline matched play rule, are Stratagems with identical names that appear in different codexes (e.g. ‘Veterans of the Long War’, which is a Stratagem in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Codex: Death Guard and Codex: Thousand Sons) considered to be the same Stratagem? A: Yes.

[CrystalSeer]

Awesome, thanks.

[CrystalSeer]

On a different note, I could have sworn the latest round of FAQs restricted using abilities like warp time being used on the turn you deep strike, but I can't find it now. Am I crazy or was it just somewhere else?

[BluejayJunior]

It's on page 5 of the main rulebook FAQ. In the section about reinforcements. 

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Strategic discipline only covers stratagems used in a game turn phase? And so would allow for several of the same pre-battle stratagems to be used? "This does not affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a battle round’."

[TheWolfLord]

Strategic discipline only covers stratagems used in a game turn phase? And so would allow for several of the same pre-battle stratagems to be used? "This does not affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a battle round’."

Normally you’d be correct but Webway Assault states it can only be used once per battle.

[Helycon]

On a different note, I could have sworn the latest round of FAQs restricted using abilities like warp time being used on the turn you deep strike, but I can't find it now. Am I crazy or was it just somewhere else?

 

I'm pretty sure it was in the generic FAQ. 

 

There you go!

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

Strategic discipline only covers stratagems used in a game turn phase? And so would allow for several of the same pre-battle stratagems to be used? "This does not affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a battle round’."

Normally you’d be correct but Webway Assault states it can only be used once per battle.

 

Sure, but in this situation there are two different Webway Assaults from two different sources, and the FAQ restricts their use based Strategic Discipline, which isn't a factor here.

[TheWolfLord]

 

 

Strategic discipline only covers stratagems used in a game turn phase? And so would allow for several of the same pre-battle stratagems to be used? "This does not affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a battle round’."

 

Normally you’d be correct but Webway Assault states it can only be used once per battle.

Sure, but in this situation there are two different Webway Assaults from two different sources, and the FAQ restricts their use based Strategic Discipline, which isn't a factor here.

However, if you’re going to be that technical with the rules then technically the rule that confirms multiple uses ‘before the battle begins’ in Matched Play is also Strategic Discipline so even before the battle they are considered the same Stratagem.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

 

 

Strategic discipline only covers stratagems used in a game turn phase? And so would allow for several of the same pre-battle stratagems to be used? "This does not affect Stratagems that are not used during a phase, such as those used ‘before the battle begins’ or ‘at the end of a battle round’."

Normally you’d be correct but Webway Assault states it can only be used once per battle.

Sure, but in this situation there are two different Webway Assaults from two different sources, and the FAQ restricts their use based Strategic Discipline, which isn't a factor here.

However, if you’re going to be that technical with the rules then technically the rule that confirms multiple uses ‘before the battle begins’ in Matched Play is also Strategic Discipline so even before the battle they are considered the same Stratagem.

 

I don't see how that follows. Strategic Discipline lists those stratagems used before battle as an exception. In other words, Strategic Discipline doesn't interact with them (they are not covered, are not a part of the restriction, and can be used more than once subect to any restrictions in the stratagems themselves). The FAQ only covers any strategems that interacts with Strategic Discipline (i.e those that are used during a phase). It is no different than using multiple relic stratagems from different detachments, which is certainly on the table (or at least was the last time I checked).

 

EDIT: Indeed, the very FAQ comes in to make my point for me.

 

Q: Is the Deployment step of a mission considered to be a ‘phase’ for the purposes of rules?

A: No.

 

Note that this means that the Strategic Discipline matched play rule does not apply to Stratagems that are used during deployment and they can be used as many times as a player wishes, as long as they have enough Command Points to pay for them and the Stratagem does not explicitly say it can only be used ‘once’, or ‘once per battle’.

In other words, nothing prevents you from using the relic strat on both your detachments, so long as both detachments are different (no doubles if you have multiple UM detachments, but knock yourself out if you have, say, a Craftworld and a Drukhari detachment).

 

EDIT II:  To put if more succinctly: Any restriction tied to Strategic Discipline doesn't apply since Strategic Discipline itself doesn't apply.

[BluejayJunior]

But it still says that they are the same strategem if they have the same name, regardless of source. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

True, but having the same name doesn't act as a bar to their use before the battle begins, as per the the FAQ quotation by the Interrogator-Chaplain.  Before the battle begins, you can use a given stratagem as many times as you have the CP to do so, as the Strategic Disciplines rule only applies to the use of stratagems during a game phase.

 

Unless there is some restriction in the wording of the power itself, which there is here.

 

As noted, the FAQ ruling that stratagems of the same name count as the same stratagem for determining the number of uses is only in terms of their interaction with the Strategic Disciplines rule.

 

So, at least by the rules as written, there doesn't seem to be anything that bars the use of Webway portal twice before the game begins, provided you have access to the stratagem through 2 different codexes.

 

In terms of intent, however, one could argue that the FAQ ruling about multiple uses of the same named power is not limited to the strategic disciplines rule, and the FAQ is only worded the way it is as the writers only referred that rule as that was the specific question before them, and that the FAQ ruling can therefore be extended to any rule limiting the use of stratagems, not just strategic disciplines.  However, that's a lot of speculation based on one phrase, and I don't think there is any clear indication of the writer's intent in this case.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

But it still says that they are the same strategem if they have the same name, regardless of source. 

For the purpose of Strategic Discipline, which doesn't factor into this.

[Claws and Effect]

True, but having the same name doesn't act as a bar to their use before the battle begins, as per the the FAQ quotation by the Interrogator-Chaplain. Before the battle begins, you can use a given stratagem as many times as you have the CP to do so, as the Strategic Disciplines rule only applies to the use of stratagems during a game phase.

 

Unless there is some restriction in the wording of the power itself, which there is here.

Bolded the relevant part.

 

The FAQ has clarified that 2 Strategems with the same name are the same Strategem, regardless of source.

 

Therefore 2 Strategems with the same name that both say they can only be used once can not both be used because according to the FAQ ruling you would then be using a Strategem twice that specifically states it can only be used once.

 

When it is used is 100% irrelevant in this case.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Except the FAQ does not clarify that 2 stratagems with the same name are always the same stratagem. 

 

 

Q: For the purposes of the Strategic Discipline matched play rule, are Stratagems with identical names that appear in different codexes (e.g. ‘Veterans of the Long War’, which is a Stratagem in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Codex: Death Guard and Codex: Thousand Sons) considered to be the same Stratagem? A: Yes.

 

 

The FAQ only says they are the same stragagem for the purpose of Strategic Discipline - ie in regards to using a stratagem more than once a phase in matched play.   The FAQ does not address the question of whether two stratagems with the same name are the same stratagem when used at another time.

 

Now, I can see one arguing is that the intent is that stratagems with the same name are always the same stratagem, but as of yet the rules do not actually say that.

[TheWolfLord]

I’m not sure why we were arguing about this in the first place. All 3 Stratagems have different names in each Aeldari Codex. Webway Assault, Webway Strike and Webway Portal.

 

Unless I’m missing something major or their names have been changed in an Errata that is.