Kill Team Compositions/Builds

[MoGuy]

Greetings, brothers of the long watch.

 

I know we have a thread about Veterans and another one about tactics. So if the Moderati deem this thread obsolete it may be closed.

 

However!

 

The Deathwatch is a rather ...odd army. In my years of hobbying I've owned and played a lot of armies (Necrons, Ad Mech, Dark Eldar, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Militarum Tempestus, Inquisition, Grey Knights...). In all these "conventional" armies the role of each unit is quite clear. They often excel at a specific task. Dark Eldar Wyches for example want to kill stuff in close combat. Simple enough. But our Kill Teams are a different breed. 

 

They can be build for pretty much anything, be it shredding hordes, elites or tanks. 

 

Now I would like to know if you have some standard builds that you use. What kind of Kill Team compositions have proven themselves to be successfull?

[Qui-Gon]

I have only two builds I work with:

5 Vets: 2 Frag cannons, 2 shotguns or boltguns, boltgun or shotgun & storm shield
5-10 Vets w/ stalker boltguns.

Each has done wonders for me, and I very very rarely find myself wishing I had X or Y, and if I do, its a Vanguard vet to fall back and shoot if I get tied up, but I tend to run rhinos so I don't take vanguards.

[Vel'Cona]

Really, if you're just taking Veterans it's not a Kill Team persay.  That qualification comes when you blend in other forms of DW marines, which therefore unlocks more abilities (with the notable exception of Hellblasters).

 

The massive issue I have with mixed Kill Teams is that these tend to limit transport options.  With Primaris it's not as big a deal since the Repulsor can handle everything but the Inceptors, but for standard Veterans it's a much bigger problem.  Unless you want to run pure Corvus Blackstars (which is crazy expensive), you're going to lose out on some Kill Team options regardless of what you pick for transports.  Teleportarium Strategem has alleviated this issue somewhat, but since I prefer to save this for other models (Dreadnoughts) I find it immensely difficult to slide Kill Teams into my Watch Companies, especially given how much a few specialist models can hike up the points costs.

[Lemondish]

I've been running the following Veteran killteams to great success. I run two in my Battalion:

• 4 Veterans with storm bolter and chainsword (including the sgt.)
• 2 Veterans with storm bolter and storm shield
• 2 Veterans with frag cannons
• 1 Terminator with axe and storm bolter
• 1 Vanguard Veteran with dual chainswords

This unit can ride in a Corvus, but I don't actually have one so I haven't had an opportunity to try it out that way. They're both kept in reserve to teleport in, and they end up being pretty resilient against most counter attacks thanks to the Terminator and the storm shields (and because they weren't trudging up the board solo). They pack a hell of a shooting punch with SIA storm bolters when they land, and they have a pretty solid number of attacks in melee to chew through chaff if they need to. 

 

I've tried an alternate build where I swap one of the frag cannons for a normal storm bolter and chainsword build, swap the other frag cannon for a black shield with dual lightning claws, and swap the sgt to dual lightning claws as well. It's done some great work in melee, but since they're deep striking it's mostly been initiated by me when I have a Librarian nearby or I'm using the Black Shield for a heroic intervention. 

 

My Fortis Kill teams are basically two builds:

• 5 Intercessors with auto bolt rifles
• 4 Aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets 
• 1 Inceptor with auto bolters

These guys rush up the field, chew through a variety of screening and bubblewrap, and then hold their position in cover as a T5 unit, 2+ save, and 20 wounds. They've been really difficult to shift, but I also haven't had the displeasure of facing Drukhari yet. The second build:

• 5 Intercessors with bolt rifles
• 4 Hellblasters with the regulary old plasma incinerator (the rapid fire one)
• 1 Inceptor with plasma

These guys hang back in cover and plink things from afar while being able to move up and put damage on something that gets too close. They've been my go to unit for dropping those fun anti-xenos strats onto, as well as things like auspex scan. 

 

I'd like to consider slightly cheaper units eventually, as these ones all eat up points - but that's mostly to enable my totally illogical choice of adding models I like the look of rather than their effects on the table (like Land Raiders and Blackstars). 

[Mobius0288]

So I've seen a lot of guys been jumping on the storm bolter hype train, and it definitely works. Seen lots of summaries with lots of results. I haven't gone full storm bolter teams yet but I've dabbled in it some. I've used:

- 2 infernus bolters

- 1 heavy bolter

- 2 storm bolter / 2 storm shield

- 1 storm bolter / power sword (sgt)

- 1 storm bolter / power sword (terminator)

 

It's done work, deterred charges and help me get some mortal wounds in. Definitely a support unit for my 3 primaris units I tend to push out to objectives or hold the line.

 

Speaking of Primaris, I've had better luck using plain old intercessors rather than having some super awesome primaris kill team. Maybe adding 2-3 hellblasters in one or two of those teams and have a Captain / Watchmaster march with them up the board... but anything beyond that is too expensive for my lists. I definitely prefer the primaris over regular veteran teams (even full storm bolter /storm shield teams) because they are so much more durable.

 

My other tried-and-true veteran teams have been:

- 3 combi-melta / chainsword

- 1 bolter / chainsword

- 1 bolter / storm shield

 

- 2 stalker bolter / chainsword

- 1 stalker bolter / storm shield

- 2 missile launcher

- 1 heavy bolter (optional if points avail)

 

- 1 shotgun / chainsword

- 2 shotgun / storm shield

- 2 frag cannons

[spacewatch]

These are my favourite units right now

• 6 Vet: x6 SB, x4 Chainsword, x2 SS; VVet: x2 Pistol   -  opens screen for assault/midfield unit, deep strike
• Sgt: Shotgun+TH; 4 Vet: x2 FC, x2 Shotgun+SS; VVet: Pistol+TH assault/light-AT  -  open screen then hammer character/vehicle, inside Corvus
• Sgt: SB+Axe; 6 Vet: x2 FC, x1 IHB, x3 SB, x3 SS; Termie: SB+Axe; VVet: Pistol+Axe  -  shoot priority target(s), deep strike
• 9 Vet: x8 Stalker, x1 ML, x2 SS; Termie: CML+SB+Sword  -  grab objective&support midfield, starts on table
• 2 Ven Dread: TLC+ML  -  focus enemy AT.

Experiences so far:

• SB unit rarely survives turn they deepstrike; I feel they are too expensive for one time use only
• shotgun flamer overwatch is much better than SB overwatch and there definitely is a role for assault unit
• midfield unit IHB works nicely with FC's (flamer) and gives mortal wounds when needed
• fire support unit is solid but x4 TLC + x2 ML just is not enough against vehicle heavy lists, 5 or more tanks and I struggle every time
• I feel AP1 compensates Stalker movement penalty well enough so Stalkers need not be static anymore
• not tried Primaris yet but I feel that x9 Intercessors + Inceptor would be my choice, Hellblasters are good too but too expensive.

edit: removed comments, now just kill team examples

[leth]

Have not gotten to try it yet but here are the two kill teams I plan on using

 

5x veterans, 3x frag cannon 2xstorm bolter/shield. 5x bikers

 

5x intercessors, 4x aggressors boot, 1x inceptor bolt.

 

Both are majority T5, put out a solid wall of bullets, some versatility in wound allocation, etc. they will be going with my second watchmaster in deepstrike and show up together and drop the bullet bomb on everyone when they land.

[MoGuy]

Tried some builds today and had good success with them.

 

Furor Kill Team:

 

1x Sarge w/ Power Sword + Melter

1x Termi w/ Melter-Fist + SB

1x Blackshield w/ Thunderhammer + Bolter

1x VV w/ 2x Plasma Pistols

2x Vets w/ Frag Cannon

2x Vets w/ SS

1x Vet w/ Shotgun

 

These dudes take 11 seats in our Corvus Blackstar so I still had 1 seat left for my Watch Master. First Turn I fly them up the board, second turn they embark in flamer-range and decimate whatever they fire at. Between the Plasma Pistols, Melter, FCs and the CC weapons they can destroy any vehicle pretty reliable. They can also deal with hordes, GEQs, MEQs, TEQs etc. The Termi lets them tank small arms fire and the SS protect them from the big guns. The VV also lets them fall back and shoot if they do get charged by a screening unit.

 

Aquilla Kill Team

 

1x Sarge w/ Plasmagun + Power Sword

3x Vets w/ Plasmaguns + Chainswords

1x Vet w/ FC

4x Vets w/ Shotguns

 

I take this Kill Team in a Rhino with a Watch Captain and rush them up the field. He helps them not kill themselves with overcharged Plasma and they are quite good at taking down elite units or multi-wound models.

[Chris521]

I've been trying a few builds out and there are two load outs that have been doing really well.  

 

The first is a simple 5 man team with 4 Storm bolters, 2 storm shields, and a frag cannon ( I use the sarge and blackshield because why not).  Two of these squad deep striking in with a captain put out some nice dakka for their price.  Against lighter infantry squads, I may even split fire.  The goal is to try to keep the frag cannon alive for another turn, but is worth noting that each hit is likely to kill any infantry model so even if it can't shoot at a vehicle, you can get some value from it after deep striking.

 

 

The other squad is a 10 man squad consisting of a

8 vets-6 Storm bolter, 2 storm shield, 2 Frag cannon

1 Vanguard vet-bolt pistol storm shield

1 terminator- Storm bolter/sword

 

I may play around with it a bit,perhaps a couple more shields. One more frag Cannon is a possibility, but I like it's current fire power.

 

It deepstrikes in with a Watch Master.  This is the squad that you dump you stratagems into (can even use those tempest shells on the Vanguard bolt pistol).  This squad can hit hard.  With stratagems, it can even deal with T7 vehicles and titanics.  It almost killed a Stormsurge.  But it's most impressive feat was (with the help of some nice rolls) bringing down Mortarion with just the watch Master.  The models aren't even close to done so I may need to give them a trophy for that one. 

 

The terminator and storm shields give this squad some decent resiliency.  The vanguard is only there to let them shott after falling back.  But at least he can hold a shield and his pistol can use the stratagem.

[Aothaine]

I've been running the following Veteran killteams to great success. I run two in my Battalion:

• 4 Veterans with storm bolter and chainsword (including the sgt.)
• 2 Veterans with storm bolter and storm shield
• 2 Veterans with frag cannons
• 1 Terminator with axe and storm bolter
• 1 Vanguard Veteran with dual chainswords

This unit can ride in a Corvus, but I don't actually have one so I haven't had an opportunity to try it out that way. They're both kept in reserve to teleport in, and they end up being pretty resilient against most counter attacks thanks to the Terminator and the storm shields (and because they weren't trudging up the board solo). They pack a hell of a shooting punch with SIA storm bolters when they land, and they have a pretty solid number of attacks in melee to chew through chaff if they need to. 

 

I've tried an alternate build where I swap one of the frag cannons for a normal storm bolter and chainsword build, swap the other frag cannon for a black shield with dual lightning claws, and swap the sgt to dual lightning claws as well. It's done some great work in melee, but since they're deep striking it's mostly been initiated by me when I have a Librarian nearby or I'm using the Black Shield for a heroic intervention. 

 

My Fortis Kill teams are basically two builds:

• 5 Intercessors with auto bolt rifles
• 4 Aggressors with boltstorm gauntlets 
• 1 Inceptor with auto bolters

These guys rush up the field, chew through a variety of screening and bubblewrap, and then hold their position in cover as a T5 unit, 2+ save, and 20 wounds. They've been really difficult to shift, but I also haven't had the displeasure of facing Drukhari yet. The second build:

• 5 Intercessors with bolt rifles
• 4 Hellblasters with the regulary old plasma incinerator (the rapid fire one)
• 1 Inceptor with plasma

These guys hang back in cover and plink things from afar while being able to move up and put damage on something that gets too close. They've been my go to unit for dropping those fun anti-xenos strats onto, as well as things like auspex scan. 

 

I'd like to consider slightly cheaper units eventually, as these ones all eat up points - but that's mostly to enable my totally illogical choice of adding models I like the look of rather than their effects on the table (like Land Raiders and Blackstars). 

 

Love these kill teams. Pretty much exactly what I would build. I think going melee with kill teams is a trap. Marines are best at short-mid range fire power. Leave melee to the Orks & hyper focused Eldar. 

 

Edit: Can the Veteran Vanguards take two Storm Bolters? If they can I would swap out the chainswords for that. 

[ashc]

Nobody can double storm bolter, it's restricted by list selection in the codex.

[Vel'Cona]

Nobody can double storm bolter, it's restricted by list selection in the codex.

 

But AFAIK you can take a storm bolter/combi-weapon (with Combi-Melta being the prevailing choice atm), though this can get into some insane price points :P

[leth]

 

Nobody can double storm bolter, it's restricted by list selection in the codex.

 

But AFAIK you can take a storm bolter/combi-weapon (with Combi-Melta being the prevailing choice atm), though this can get into some insane price points

 

 

Both of them are from the "One of the below" selections as far as I know.

[vigitant]

I'm pretty much with Lemondish on this.

If I'm running friendly monocodex lists, i typically use backfield 5man primaris teams.  100pts for 10 wounds that can plink across the board.  But its my opinion guard do the back field objective game much better. 

[ashc]

Quick question - intercessor aux grenade launcher - put it on the sergeant or not?

[Kisada]

I didn't model mine on my sarge because I didn't think about it when making them ... but really don't see a downside on putting it on him except for the rare occasion when some rule allows the opponent to snipe out a specific model in a unit (I can't think of what that rule is but I feel like I heard of one or two).

[leth]

So I learned an interesting thing at the GT this weekend. Our veterans squads.....even when you add bikes and the like they doing actual,y gain any keywords. It even says the keywords only appear when looking at transport capacity.

 

So I took my kill team of 5 bikes, 5 veterans, and had my bikes running through and up ruins.

 

It was pretty awesome.

 

I have considered making it 4 bikes 1 vanguard now so they can fall back and still charge/shoot if the combat squad.

[Moostick]

I know this particular case isn't that serious, but things like this just grind my gears and I have to say something. To me, that's just playing the system and ruins the spirit of the game.

 

I wouldn't argue against it and agree it's technically legal, so no need to plead a case, but I personally would think less of an opponent who would do that. I would equate it to MLMs; it's legal, but...yeah.

[Mobius0288]

hmm... interesting..

[Lemondish]

I'm pretty much with Lemondish on this.

 

If I'm running friendly monocodex lists, i typically use backfield 5man primaris teams. 100pts for 10 wounds that can plink across the board. But its my opinion guard do the back field objective game much better.

It's too bad the guard CP battery is so bloody strong for CP regen. I'd personally love to be able to run a different ally - ad mech would be great. Or even a Raven Guard detachment with Devastators and scouts.

 

But I give up so much by passing on Grand strategist and Kurov's. I also use my guard battalion to bring the AT.

[leth]

I know this particular case isn't that serious, but things like this just grind my gears and I have to say something. To me, that's just playing the system and ruins the spirit of the game.

 

I wouldn't argue against it and agree it's technically legal, so no need to plead a case, but I personally would think less of an opponent who would do that. I would equate it to MLMs; it's legal, but...yeah.

 

Why?

 

Not even a RAW/RAI argument.  They SPECIFICALLY spelled out that they are only TREATED as having these words when calculating transport capacity. Otherwise their data sheet is very clear, and they even go out of their way to make it clear that the units can get most of the benefits, but that they dont actually get the keywords themselves. 

[Zogash]

 

I know this particular case isn't that serious, but things like this just grind my gears and I have to say something. To me, that's just playing the system and ruins the spirit of the game.

 

I wouldn't argue against it and agree it's technically legal, so no need to plead a case, but I personally would think less of an opponent who would do that. I would equate it to MLMs; it's legal, but...yeah.

 

Why?

 

Not even a RAW/RAI argument.  They SPECIFICALLY spelled out that they are only TREATED as having these words when calculating transport capacity. Otherwise their data sheet is very clear, and they even go out of their way to make it clear that the units can get most of the benefits, but that they dont actually get the keywords themselves. 

 

 

Why? Because a Space Marine bike is a Space Marine bike, and there is no legit reason other than 'playing the system' as to why a bike model taken via a dedicated unit of bikers cannot climb ruins but an otherwise identical bike model taken via a Veterans squad can. It undoubtedly is RAW at the moment, but it is clearly contrary to the spirit of the game, and... common sense, really.

[Vel'Cona]

Let's keep the discussion to Kill Team composition, brothers.

[leth]

Let's keep the discussion to Kill Team composition, brothers.

 

We are. If the rules of a kill team are not understood then how are we supposed to make a proper kill team. A article on Bell of Lost Souls just said that a squad with a bike cant deep strike because it has the biker keyword when it in fact does not. Same thing came up in a podcast. If it is not addressed then people will learn the wrong rules and it will be spread wider.  Got to confront falsehoods when you can. 

 

Also, I have basically been accused of cheating/gaming the system for following the rules both as written and intended since GW took the extra step to clarify that they DONT have those keywords. That does not sit well with me. 

 

Show me any other model where the keywords natively transfer to other units? and I will concede the point. 

[Finkmilkana]

When building kill teams, remember that the keywords not transferring can also be a downside. Some superheavies just walking right over them comes to mind or being unable to charge supersonic flyers (in the case of vanguards).