Kasper_Hawser Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 First of all, i am not asking if and how anyone has been using Santa Grimnar on sleigh. i've been very reluctant to use Logan mainly due to: 1) Slow movement due to terminator armour 2) Inability to fit in transport, also due to terminator armour 3) Vulnerability to snipers due to lack of Honor guard/body guard equivalents. 4) High cost with the only additional rule being fearless Wolf Guard, which doesn't benefit bulk of my army at all. For my playstyle, I've been favoring the traditional MSU with combi-plasma and plasma in Razorbacks, normally 3-4 of them. Supported by 3 squads of Long Fangs, a Stormwolf, with 3 HQs Lord, RP and Battle leader, all with either bikes or jump packs. This totals to roughly 2000 points most of the time, the variations in my list mostly varies between the number of GH MSU and Razorbacks with the Long Fangs weapons composition. In order to fit Grimnar in this, I would have to deploy him on foot with the Razorbacks. Problem is that he may not be able to catch up with the Razorbacks to. And he will be arguable exposed to sniper fire or psychic powers. Sigh, I never imagine I would be cursing terminator armour on our chapter master. Anyway, I wanted to get some ideas on other lists which is uses the chapter master. Appreciate the ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysquigg Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 IMO he works beautifully in a slow foot slogging list, or any list that runs wulfen en masse. He also is perfect support for the fabled thundernators which might be the most over costed unit ever. Another fun composition is wolf claw terminators, or wulfen with frost claws. Re rolling all failed hits and wounds in melee with the claws is dirty. Especially when you're in the 5+ to wound territory. Otherwise, maybe move your razorbacks slower? If you're running plasma heavy and long fangs, I'd say bench him! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluescope Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I have never seen anyone used Logan in 8th Ed. Ulrik or Bjorn is always better choice among named characters. The first one is cheaper buffer. The other is unstoppable melee machine. Logan might be useful after our codex is released. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Not positive he need a transport. You could always teleport him in. Which would be the same as putting him in a transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axilleas Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Every time I begin to build a list with Logan, I always end up removing him to use the points elsewhere. He just costs too much and I have a hard time synergizing him with the rest of my army composition. I have taken a unit of th/ss termies a few times, but I just throw down Arjac with them. They do OK, but they are slow and won't get anywhere once they choose a sector to DS. Logan suffers from the same movement issues. I don't see Logan adding any value that our other characters can't do at a cheaper cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratherdashing Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I love Logan as a buffbot but honestly a Wolf Lord and WGBL are almost as good and really cheap. If most of your forces are in the same place though, you do a lot worse than Logan to buff them up. I tend to put him in space and drop him in when my footsloggers reach about midfield, ie when they start needing the rerolls because they are shooting their guns. I don't use Wolf guard much so I don't get the use of all of his buffs though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I much prefer a WL with a jump pack over any of our infantry named HQs. Movement is too important to make sure we have our characters protected. None have that useful of additional rules to warrant the foot slogging. If GW lets Logan survive after the sled is destroyed, I'd consider using him if the cost is reasonable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysquigg Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I've run the following a lot in 8th and like it. Thunderlord TH Combi Melta Thunderguardbattleleader TH+SS They're fast and hard to kill with 7 wounds. They make the most out of the thunder hammer in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 I much prefer a WL with a jump pack over any of our infantry named HQs. Movement is too important to make sure we have our characters protected. None have that useful of additional rules to warrant the foot slogging. If GW lets Logan survive after the sled is destroyed, I'd consider using him if the cost is reasonable. Actually if they allow him to do that, despite the ridiculousness of the Sleigh, I would take him too for the extra speed and wounds. As it is, 13 wounds is still too little to justify a vehicle that can be singled out and destroyed, protected only by a 4++. Even assuming I have other high value targets to give my opinion, in 8th edition no matter how threatening a unit is, you always go for the Buffers and possible Debuffers. Meaning if I had a choice between an Imperial Knight and Logan coming at me, I'll still target Logan first instead of the Knight because Logan multiplies the whole army whereas the Knight is just one big model. Not sure of the mathhammer, but I think 5 Lascannon shots per turn is enough to turn the sleigh to slag. Sigh, so sad only Greysquig has given positive idea on footslogging list. everyone else is a sad wolf for having a cumbersome chapter master who can't keep up with the likes of Shrike and Dante, or the army wide buff utility of Azrael. although to be fair, Helbrecht and Lysander isn't so hot either, Helbrecht also not having much army wide buff, whereas Lysander is also stuck in termi armour. Sigh, anyone still remember which edition terminators were awesome and hard to kill? I came in at the tail end of 5th edition where it was already in decline although not so much. Now we're regretting putting terminator armour on ANY character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrys Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Why not put him in a land raider (or maybe a stormwolf)? Granted, I am not particularly good at this game ... but I love land raiders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 Why not put him in a land raider (or maybe a stormwolf)? Granted, I am not particularly good at this game ... but I love land raiders. While fluffy, the problem with such a combo is that almost certainly, the opponent will shoot down the Land Raider or Stormwolf to make sure Logan and his retinue never reaches the frontlines. In my meta, even Tyranid players have very respectable artillery just waiting to tear down your first big expensive unit. Which for the competitive or semi-competitive player, means leaving all the big toys at home, and focusing on an army with NO big centre so that the opponent wastes his firepower on not so important or expensive targets, rather than give him one in form of a big tank or unit. Sadly it's hard to tell between making a fluffy yet winnable list, and then finding a matching player which isn't bringing a competitive list to stomp you. At this point, I think its best I use Logan as the centre of my Assault Cannon razorbacks, and see how it goes from there. Not much choice, not very sexy having your terminator chapter master footslog, but I still want an excuse to use Logan, he was once the most awesome chapter master bar none, not even Dante or Calgar held a candle on him. But now, rules wise and even fluff wise, the Old Wolf is being forgotten.... ..... I'm going to find some Mjord and hopefully dissolve my insides with it..... rather than thinking about the sad state of our chapter master.... ..... then again Ghazkull has been MIA for a longer time, so once again, I can't complain too much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5089976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axilleas Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Well, the newest community article about the Imperial Knight discuss how the pilot will be able to get out and keep fighting after it is destroyed, so there may be some hope yet for sleigh Logan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5091034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkco Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Currently the only time i use logan on foot is for buffing my on the hunt anti character/tank melta gun wolf guard. due to his slow speed bjorn just is better even though he does not reroll all hits just ones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5091073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Redbeard Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I much prefer a WL with a jump pack over any of our infantry named HQs. Movement is too important to make sure we have our characters protected. None have that useful of additional rules to warrant the foot slogging. If GW lets Logan survive after the sled is destroyed, I'd consider using him if the cost is reasonable. Not sure of the mathhammer, but I think 5 Lascannon shots per turn is enough to turn the sleigh to slag.Mathammer wise Logan survives 3-4 turns if only 5 Lascannons attack him per turn, which isn't that bad. But still since he degrades it makes him less useful the longer he survives. If they are going with the disembark option they should go and make the Sleigh a transport for him. Make it an independant unit where he embarks amd disembarks. That would mamke him far more mobile and durable amking him a good pick for acompanying Razorbacks or other vehicles while allowing him to duck and provide buffs by disembarking and losing mobility. Still I believe he need a few buffs in general. As of now, probably yhe best way to run him is with some Termies and Arjac and have them deepstrike or just use the DS as a vehicle amd trhow him in thr middle of the army after turn 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5091169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 I much prefer a WL with a jump pack over any of our infantry named HQs. Movement is too important to make sure we have our characters protected. None have that useful of additional rules to warrant the foot slogging. If GW lets Logan survive after the sled is destroyed, I'd consider using him if the cost is reasonable. Not sure of the mathhammer, but I think 5 Lascannon shots per turn is enough to turn the sleigh to slag.Mathammer wise Logan survives 3-4 turns if only 5 Lascannons attack him per turn, which isn't that bad. But still since he degrades it makes him less useful the longer he survives. If they are going with the disembark option they should go and make the Sleigh a transport for him. Make it an independant unit where he embarks amd disembarks. That would mamke him far more mobile and durable amking him a good pick for acompanying Razorbacks or other vehicles while allowing him to duck and provide buffs by disembarking and losing mobility. Still I believe he need a few buffs in general. As of now, probably yhe best way to run him is with some Termies and Arjac and have them deepstrike or just use the DS as a vehicle amd trhow him in thr middle of the army after turn 2. Come to think of it, we have ample precedent for pilots disembarking their vehicles now, the earliest being that stupid Chronus, to the most recent being Hekhtur the new and only Knight Character, both being able to leave their vehicles. GW, please please please PLEASE, remember your thinking caps and commonsense to see that Logan just needs to take a step backward to jump off his damn sleigh. Anyway, for now, I think I'll use him as the centre of my Assault Cannon Razorback formation, along with some Aggressors as bodyguards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5092272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 Currently the only time i use logan on foot is for buffing my on the hunt anti character/tank melta gun wolf guard. due to his slow speed bjorn just is better even though he does not reroll all hits just ones. Sad to say Logan is overshadowed by Bjorn these days. Still, I will try using him as part of my Twin Assaut Cannon formation. Will still use a Lord on a bike for a Rapid reaction force, maybe with my usual Rune Priest on bike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5092305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just for fun I used Logan, Arjak, and 5 TDAWG in a crusader lol. So expensive but it was pretty sweet watching them shred a Knight in half a turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5094257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just for fun I used Logan, Arjak, and 5 TDAWG in a crusader lol. So expensive but it was pretty sweet watching them shred a Knight in half a turn. That's the way you do it!! My first game of 8th edition I put him in a Storm Wolf with 10 GH and a RP, barfed them onto the table near Ulrik and took out 3 Necron Wraiths with the unit. It was very fun and very fluffy but not a optimal or competitive option at all, in my opinion. He is indeed a hard unit to figure out, and he shouldn't be. How about the idea of Telepotariuming him into the part of the battle he is need to initially act as the buff bot he is, and then he can join in the fray possibly the next turn?? He's such a great model (sans-sleigh) and I am saddened by his awkwardness in the Index. He better become a bad ass so and so in the codex!! End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5094384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 When I do it again i would for sure sub the crusader for the stormwolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5094719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkco Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Also one benifit for him is to reduce the amount of units on the board with out needing to use cp if you are up against a alpha shooty army and you can still drop him in 1st turn to buff units in your own half Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5133606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysquigg Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Also one benifit for him is to reduce the amount of units on the board with out needing to use cp if you are up against a alpha shooty army and you can still drop him in 1st turn to buff units in your own half The buff is great. But essentially you can read it as "you can re roll 1s and 2s". When you think about it like that you can take a 77pt wolf lord to a comparable job for 113(?) pts less. He's really meant to be in melee along side your wulfen for that 7 attacks with curse of the wulfen kill, and a charge attack for the legendary fighter warlord trait. In that position he really is making his money back as your wulfen are re rolling 1s and 2s too. You're also sort of saving yourself 97 pts kinda by not having to take a wolf priest with the jump pack... You're also buffing other front line pieces like stormwolves or blood claws so there's that to consider. Definitely not a back line piece like the cheaper wolf lord. Edit: Decided to make a list that includes him. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [110 PL, 2000pts] ++ + HQ [16 PL, 289pts] + Logan Grimnar [10 PL, 190pts]: 1. Legendary Fighter, Warlord Wolf Guard Battle Leader [6 PL, 99pts]: Jump Packs [1 PL, 3pts], Storm shield [15pts], Thunder hammer [21pts] + Troops [18 PL, 195pts] + Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader [13pts], 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol [52pts] Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader [13pts], 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol [52pts] Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader [13pts], 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol [52pts] + Elites [26 PL, 462pts] + Wulfen [13 PL, 231pts] . 2x Great frost axe [34pts] . 2x Thunder hammer & Stormshield [42pts]: 2x Storm Shield [10pts], 2x Thunder Hammer [32pts] . 4x Wulfen [112pts] . Wulfen Pack Leader [43pts]: Frost claws [15pts] Wulfen [13 PL, 231pts] . 2x Great frost axe [34pts] . 2x Thunder hammer & Stormshield [42pts]: 2x Storm Shield [10pts], 2x Thunder Hammer [32pts] . 4x Wulfen [112pts] . Wulfen Pack Leader [43pts]: Frost claws [15pts] + Heavy Support [7 PL, 154pts] + Long Fangs [7 PL, 154pts] . Long Fang [35pts]: Plasma cannon [21pts] . Long Fang [35pts]: Plasma cannon [21pts] . Long Fang [35pts]: Plasma cannon [21pts] . Long Fang [35pts]: Plasma cannon [21pts] . Long Fang Pack Leader [14pts]: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword + Flyer [28 PL, 558pts] + Stormwolf [14 PL, 279pts]: Twin helfrost cannon [30pts] . Two Lascannons [50pts]: 2x Lascannon [50pts] . Two Twin Heavy Bolters [34pts]: 2x Twin heavy bolter [34pts] Stormwolf [14 PL, 279pts]: Twin helfrost cannon [30pts] . Two Lascannons [50pts]: 2x Lascannon [50pts] . Two Twin Heavy Bolters [34pts]: 2x Twin heavy bolter [34pts] + Dedicated Transport [15 PL, 342pts] + Razorback [5 PL, 114pts]: Twin assault cannon [44pts] Razorback [5 PL, 114pts]: Twin assault cannon [44pts] Razorback [5 PL, 114pts]: Twin assault cannon [44pts] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5133774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgr_maddog Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I've had some success dropping him in with 2 squads of TDA and Arjac (lots of points, but fun). Two key things, first you need an aggressive drop putting them all down where the action is and the rest of your army is moving. Second, I don't use a common TDA setup. One unit is mostly combi-plas and Storm shields, and the second more assault oriented but most have Storm bolters. Even though there slow they can all hurt lots of targets with all the rerolls. If plasma TDA get assaulted, you've got interventions and a second wave of TDA if needed. If not, you gun everything down from midfield and assault in to clean up. I don't expect to win any turnoments with such a list, but it's the best way I've used Logan in fun games- supper fluffy as a bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5133817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 "if" we get wolf guard as troop with codex then Logan will see more play time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5133833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 In a 2,000 point game, always play to both target saturation, target quality, and target quantity, to choice. In terms of options, the Land Raider Crusader versus the Stormwolf, each has their strengths and weaknesses. Depending upon when one can get a flyer in, the Stormwolf has far better range, better weapons overall, and the same total transport capacity. Turn of arrival is the single biggest issue. As for the LRC, the thing is somewhat slow, a big target, and has the decided drawback of needing something else on the ground to be shot at that is somehow a much larger threat. With a flyer built-in -1 to hit, the Stormwolf is only really hindered by its, I think, slightly lower defensive ratings; T, and W, comparatively. Logan is great on foot, once one sadly pays the points sinks needed to get him a transport for the mobility fix. The problem is more keeping him alive once he's on the field; he is a big threat in many ways, and currently, expensive. Unless his cost comes down rather nicely, expect to need to account in your tabletop tactics for his gamechanging nature. In all ways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347556-tactics-for-logan-grimnar-on-foot/#findComment-5133863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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