Help me decide...

[Kros Morotho]

I have 55 pts left open while putting together a 1500-point, Pure Sororitas list. Should I fill the final slot with:

 

a) 5 Seraphim (1 with a hand flamer) to act as a  harrier unit

or

b ) 5 Celestians (superior with a ... something) to tank wounds for my Senior and junior Canoness as they burn and slash?

[_Saracen]

It might be helpful for us to see the rest of your list to get an idea of what it needs overall. Do you have it in a form that you could easily post?

[bkde]

Seraphim. Keep them off the table as long as possible to deep strike onto an objectove

[ERJAK]

I have 55 pts left open while putting together a 1500-point, Pure Sororitas list. Should I fill the final slot with:

 

a) 5 Seraphim (1 with a hand flamer) to act as a harrier unit

or

b ) 5 Celestians (superior with a ... something) to tank wounds for my Senior and junior Canoness as they burn and slash?

Seraphim. It doesn't matter what the rest of your list is, seraphim are always better than Celestians. In fact, inferno pistols on seraphim are so good I'd drop 36pts somewhere else (honestly doesn't much matter from where) to take those too.

[Kros Morotho]

Everything else, FYI:

 

Senior Canoness ( combi-flamer, power sword, rosarius, relic sword)                                                                      

Canoness-in-training--- combi-flamer, power sword, rosarius                                                   

        Retributors --- (5 gals) 4 w/ hev bolters [pistols]                               

        Repressor --- storm bolter, hev flamer, dozer ram                            

                                                                                                                                    

 

(3x) Battle Squad --- (15gals) flamer, hev flamer, superior w/ stormbolter   [pistols, frag, krak]                                                                                             

                        Imagifier --- [pistol, boltgun, frag, krak]                                                     

                                                                                     

 

(x2) Dominions --- (5 gals) 4 meltas, superior w/ combi-melta    [pistols, frag, krak]

            Immolator --- immolation flamer                                                              

 

Exorcist --- (no upgrades)

 

 

The idea is to either add in 5 Seraphim, or to add in 5 celestians so that the Retributors can stop escourting the Canonesses and instead hang back and shoot from a nice vantage point. So, which should it be?

[Eddie Orlock]

How about a Dialogus and an Imagifier to generate acts of faith and get sent off to achieve martyrdom to generate more acts of faith?

 

Only really a thought if you've got other things in your list worth empowering with further acts of faith.

[Aqui]

Whilst I think a Seraphim squad would be good, without adding Inferno pistols or flamer pistols, they might not pull their weight. A Dialogus and Imagnifer would be the alternative.

[Kros Morotho]

With the above double melty-Dom units... do I need inferno-packin' Seraphim?

[Aqui]

I don't think it would hurt, but as you have Melta Dominions, it's probably not a problem :)

[Lord Grimskull]

Canonness in training: Swap the powersword for powermaul if able, you're not hurting for AP and the +str is much more valuable. (Str 5 will wound most infantry on 3s, and light vehicles on 5s vs. 4s and 6s) same point cost as I recall.

 

Celestians aren't a huge bit better than standard sisters at being an escort for characters because of the character targeting rules (unless of course you're dealing with a lot of snipers in your meta)

 

You could bring a min squad of battle sisters with tripple storm bolters and have points to throw a storm bolters on the Ret superior. Heck I think that lets you buy a spare storm bolters for an immolator too.

 

(This is all baring having the stuff of course)

 

Otherwise I'd say Seraphim as deepstrike objective takers.

 

I'm also a fan of getting an imagifier in there since you don't have Celestine, it just makes getting at least 2 AoFs a little more reliable.

[Kros Morotho]

Seraphim seem to be winning the day here...

[taikishi]

Over Celestians? Every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Keep in mind some if this is "in general", some of this is specific to your list:

 

Celestians just aren't worth the points you spend on them:

* their +1WS and lack of access to melee weapons only makes them marginally better than BSS in close-combat

* they have the exact same ranged options and general role as BSS but

  a. are more expensive than BSS

  b. lack Objective Secured

* the unit you most want to bodyguard (Celestine) they can't keep up with and lacks an <Order> keyword and it really isn't worth it to bodyguard a Canoness or Imagifier most of the time

* they eat a slot that can be better used on an Imagifier

 

Seraphim, meanwhile:

* are more mobile

* compliment Dominons by either firing bolt pistols to down screens so your Dominions can get to the juicy targets behind them OR by bringing the same level of pain through inferno pistols and a plasma pistol

* perform an effective screen for Celestine

* can use her automatic AoF by remaining within 6"

* have a re-rollable 5++ if within range of Celestine (which is slightly better than a 4++), otherwise their re-rollable 6++ is just slightly worse than a 5++

* with only 55 points, you're not going to have the points for melta/plasma on the Seraphim but that actually makes the squad more viable for a deep striking unit

[Mekhitar]

As an add-on: your canonesses hit on 2s, so the auto hit of the combo flamers is a bit wasted on them vs other units. :)

 

Invite for seraphim too, btw. They are great for tying up vehicles, and with only 3, you can pin an enemy infantry model, keep the unit it’s in from falling back, and protect your girls from getting shot at all next turn. (Fun!)

[Kros Morotho]

OK... I have reworked a few things, and will add an Imagifier to the "Command unit" and add a unit of 6 Seraphim. 

 

Thanks for the advice. 

[dracpanzer]

I always take SB's over combi-weapons on my Canoness.

 

Also, not saying Celestians are great, worth taking or preferable to Seraphim, but they do get +1A over the BSS as well as Bodyguard.

[Beams]

I like pistols on my Cannoni.

 

I usually do load outs for melee, with Blade of Admonition or Eviscerators.

 

Plasma pistols have longer range but deal significantly less damage, especially if your prone to rerolling one's to one's (It's a joke how much this happens to me), while Inferno Pistols will not always be in range. But can help your cannoness deal a ridiculous amount of damage (AoF melee, Shoot Pistols, Melee, Enemie's Turn Melee, rinse and repeat)

[dracpanzer]

Indeed, unless its my Retributor buffing Canoness, she gets the stormbolter. I prefer the Inferno pistol over the plasma.

[Mossback]

My standard loadout for the Canoness is a power sword and Inferno pistol. If I make her the Warlord, then she gets the Blade of Admonition and command ability for the extra attack in melee. More often than not, the Canoness is a killer with the pistol and a character killer with the sword. Hitting on 2+ with a reroll of 1's is amazing. Give her a jump pack with the new Codex, and you have the makings of a Supreme Command detachment that could kill anything on the battlefield.

[Kros Morotho]

Sorry, everyone, I've been away for a bit. 

Does the shortened range on the inferno pistol bother anyone, especially when compared to the much longer shooting range of the ladies standing around nearby (storm and heavy bolters, say)? Would a non-trinitarian plasma pistol be better?

[Atrus]

Whenever possible, i take the inferno. The d6 damage is just too good to pass up. Only reason my veteran superiors use plasma is because i do wysiwyg and i dont have spare infernos to model on.

[Montford]

I take Inferno Pistols every time. My Seraphim are now very used to landing within three inches of high value targets!

[Purifying Tempest]

I keep inferno pistols equipped on my Seraphim and any Canoness that may sniff melee.

 

Seraphim are way too good at getting to where they need to be. The range is not a problem. Be careful about landing 3" from characters, though. They can heroically intervene during the assault phase even if you did not assault with the unit (stupid, right?).

 

Inferno pistol on a Canoness with the blade of admonition is also a natural pairing for me. She wants melee (usually as a backfield support unit to clean up stuff that breaks through my lines). The blade is scary enough, but the pistol adds just a bit more threat to the model. I've popped many daemon princes in the back of the head with her inferno pistol as they were trying to break for like my retributors or something else behind my dom, Seraphim, and tank lines.

[Beams]

I keep inferno pistols equipped on my Seraphim and any Canoness that may sniff melee.

 

Seraphim are way too good at getting to where they need to be. The range is not a problem. Be careful about landing 3" from characters, though. They can heroically intervene during the assault phase even if you did not assault with the unit (stupid, right?).

 

Inferno pistol on a Canoness with the blade of admonition is also a natural pairing for me. She wants melee (usually as a backfield support unit to clean up stuff that breaks through my lines). The blade is scary enough, but the pistol adds just a bit more threat to the model. I've popped many daemon princes in the back of the head with her inferno pistol as they were trying to break for like my retributors or something else behind my dom, Seraphim, and tank lines.

I personally love heroic interventions. I've killed plenty of wayward enemies that way, including landspeeders and assault squads that thought they could bum rush an objective. Sorry honey, my Cannoness is already there.

 

Heroic interventions exist so that characters have a chance on objectives, so yes, if your going to drop next to a melee character make sure that they are the one your shooting, and so that you don't just surround a character and go "well, now you have to charge my wraith Flamers if you survive my shooting, or sit there and do nothing!"