Which Primarch had the worst/best upbringing?

[TheRealMcCagh]

I didn't want to derail the other thread so I thought I'd start a new one. Some Primarchs had a pretty good childhood, some had really terrible ones. But to me it doesn't seem to be a factor in determining if they eventually turned traitor or stayed loyal. Every Primarch at some point became a leader/general of sorts, so being around a certain level of violence seems to be the standard. I've tried to sort them into groups but some are in a little too unique of a situation. Full disclosure, this is all pretty subjective and it's not like there is a ton of hard info about every Primarchs childhood.

 

Group One: Good planet/Good upbringing:

 

Guilliman: Macragge seems like a pretty great world, with plenty of culture and history. Guilliman also happened to land with the ruling class of the planet, meaning not only was his world in a pretty good place, but he had a pretty well nurtured environment within it.

 

Perturabo: Same basic reasoning as Guilliman. Well developed planet, in favor with the ruling class, given lots of opportunity to grow and be his own person. I haven't read his Primarch novel, so correct me if I'm wrong, but his foster father seemed like a pretty decent guy (at least to Perty).

 

Magnus: Highly civilized planet, well received as a child. Immense psyker powers meant he probably had a pretty easy time getting the planet to rally around him. I'd put him at the bottom of this category since they had some pretty terrible local fauna that laid eggs in peoples brains

 

Lorgar: Really unsure about this, Kor Phaeron obviously wasn't winning any Father Of The Year awards, and Colchis was one gigantic Chaos Cult. But it seems like a developed planet with plenty of culture/tradition. And Lorgar at least ended up having large parts of the population adore him. I myself had a pretty good childhood, so I can't judge if a seemingly frequently abusive relationship with Kor is terrible enough to drop him to one of the worst upbringings.

 

Group Two: Bad planet/Decent upbringing: this category can be hard to quantify

 

Fulgrim: Chemos is said to be a pretty dark place in the beginning, but Fulgrim turned it around pretty fast with his ideas and policies. I haven't read his Primarch novel, but everything I see suggests he had a relatively easy time taking over once word of how great he is got around. 

 

Vulkan: Planet is pretty much one gigantic hot spot with periodic Dark Eldar raids to add additional challenges. But Vulkan also was accepted pretty readily by the humans and grew up in a relatively nurturing environment. He had an upbringing where he could learn and develop a good sense of right and wrong

 

Jaghatai Khan: Chogoris seems like a pretty decent place, even though the Khan was on the 'rebel' side. He at least landed with good enough people (I think) and was able gather a massive horde to retake the planet. Similar to Fulgrim, but it seems like he had a little more resistance to overcome.

 

Sanguinius: Baal is a gigantic radioactive hellscape with all manner of flora and fauna looking to kill you. Also a large part of the 'human' population were actually dangerous mutants. However, Sanguinius managed to grow up with seemingly decent folk and helped him retake the planet from the mutants. 

 

Ferrus: Probably towards the bottom of this group if only because he spent the most time on his own (I think). Medusa isn't an island paradise, but it seems like one of the 'safer' worlds

 

 

Group Three: Terrible planet/rough childhood

 

Corax: Deliverance/Kiavahr might not be a terrible world from the outside, but Corax's perspective of it was. He grew up around the slave caste and was hunted by the ruling class. Under different circumstances, he might have been like Perturabo (or Angron)

 

Mortarion: Toxic pit of a planet, raised by a necromancer. At least his father was part of the ruling class, but he probably wasn't the greatest father figure. Having said that, maybe he was actually pretty nurturing of Mortarion, so long as Morty was of use. He seemed pretty pissed when Morty left

 

Horus: Really unknown, but we do know Cthonia was a minign world ruled by gangs. Probably not the best environment to grow up, but maybe Horus landed with Ganger #1 of Cthonia and had a Mortarion style childhood until he inherited/took control of the planets 'political system.'

 

Russ: Fenris puts the 'death' in deathworld, and Russ spent a long time surviving it alone. I don't know exactly how long he was roughing in solo instead of throwing massive viking parties. 

 

Lion: Pretty much the same as Russ. Early on was probably in one of (if not the) worst situations, but as he grew and found his 'people' he was accept as a precocious child and was on the fast track to leadership.

 

Group Four: Terrible planet/terrible childhood

 

Curze: Nostramo was maybe not the most nurturing environment. And not the best place to grow up alone. And having visions of your death the whole time was probably a bad time. Curze didn't really have a whole lot going for him in his childhood. His twisted sense of judgement and justice was a product of his upbringing, and I think we can all agree, hardly any red flags there.

 

Angron: Nuceria itself was probably not that bad of a planet, but the Nuceria that Angron got to see was pretty crap. Didn't have much in the way of family until the very end. Probably had to grow up killing a bunch of his family actually. And, of course, the Nails were of no help in developing much in any way other than fighting.

 

Completely Unknown: Alpharius, Dorn

 

Let me know if I messed anything up, there is probably a lot of nuggets of Primarch lore that I haven't come across

 

What do you guys think? Who had it the worst? The best?

[pandion40]

I think you need more categories. For example I think you vastly underestimate how bad Baal is to live on, I’d put Baal right up there with the worst planets to live on. I’d say it’s definitely worse than caliban or fenris, I think it at least rivals Barbarus as one of the worst places to live, you not only have to contend with fighting other humans and beasties but with the environment itself, food and water are scarce leaving everyone malnourished, radiation is everywhere. The very environment saps your will to live before you face any dangers.

 

But having said that Sanguinius had a good childhood amongst people who loved and respected him, they couldn’t offer him much as they had very little, but they gave him what they had.

 

So for me Sanguinius should be Terrible planet/ good childhood.

[Marshal Loss]

Some truly bizarre summaries written in the first post.

 

Really, it's pretty simple for "worst upbringing", because two Primarchs stand head and shoulders above the others: Angron and Mortarion. Angron landed on a planet where he had his brain mutilated before being enslaved and forced to fight for the entertainment of others. Mortarion landed on a planet where he was raised by a Necromantic monster and forced to prey on his own kind.

 

These two are easily distinguishable because neither really had a chance from the beginning. Some (Curze for example) were dealt a rough hand, but could have made different decisions to what they did in order to better deal with their situation. But Angron and Mortarion were doomed from the beginning. Angron literally never had a chance to live up to his potential because his brain was irrevocably altered, and Mortarion was raised by some kind of weird dark necro-wizard in an environment where the air simply killed you and humans were prey. Of the two, I'd say Angron was probably dealt the worse hand, because from the moment he received the nails there was no possible way he was going to be able to function as he was meant to.

 

Curze is also a contender, as Malcador notes:

 

 

 

All the gene-progeny of the Great Project had been damaged by the scattering, but Mortarion’s wounds ran deeper than most. Angron had been physically damaged, and Curze’s mind had sunken into darkness, but Mortarion seemed to have been inherited something of both afflictions.

 

As for another point in your post: not all of the Primarchs who suffered during their youth turned Traitor, but it definitely was a factor. All 3 of the worst afflicted turned traitor, and in the audio Warmaster, Horus bemoans the fact that he's the master of an army of broken monsters.

 

For the best/easiest upbringing: Guilliman. He landed on a highly developed planet with a lot of culture, was taken in as part of an aristocratic power-family, was loved and cared for, and was given the best training and education that could be offered. Compared to many of the others, he had it very easy.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The worst part of Guilliman's upbringing was having to defeat the traitors who killed his father, something he was able to do with the backing of the well-drilled, well-equipped military that he had inherited the command of. He basically had everything handed to him. The majority of others either had to overthrow some form of corrupt government, conquer enemy nations, or deal with horrific environments.

 

Perturabo, at least in his view, was never seen as anything other than a tool by his adoptive father (both of them, really), only interested in using him to obtain superiority over the other Tyrants on Olympia.

[Roomsky]

I'm not sure you can get much worse than Angron. At least the Lion and Curze got to make their own way through the :cuss hands they were dealt, and weren't forcefully mutilated to stifle their potential. The fact he was on the verge of a suicidal charge rather than even the most tenuous holds over his world, the inverse of literally all of his brothers, should probably be the beginning and ending of that debate.

 

I think Magnus might win out for best, developing in an idyllic society, horrifying brain bugs or no. What gives him the edge over Guilliman is that he never had the doubt of his place in the universe, his psychic might meant he knew who he was and even that daddy E was coming for him long before the others. 

[TheRealMcCagh]

Was Mortarion's upbringing that bad though? I imagine it was like being Kim Jung Il's son. Was your dad a walking human rights violation? Of course. But was the kid actually suffering every day? It can be pretty warm under the dragon's wing. And there is plenty of leash to do what you want. If Mortarion spent his formative years chained in a basement being experimented on, then ya, total crap childhood. But if he was the untouchable prince of the worlds harshest dictator, then I struggle to say he had a harder time growing up than half of his brothers.

[Marshal Loss]

There's more than a slight difference between a human tyrant and an alien necro-sorcerer whose race prey upon humanity and whose servants are flesh-crafted abominations, on a world where the air is poison and the topography has been literally reshaped into a nightmarish hellscape to better befit the world's masters. Barbarus was so dangerous and full of such terrible lore that information about it was suppressed to the wider Imperium.
 

 

The world on which the young Mortarion fell was the very epitome of the terrors which had befallen Man during the long night of the Age of Strife - a domain of savage, alien overlords who ruled over an entrapped and preyed upon human population as cruel and terrible gods.

Mortarion was raised in what was essentially a prison, a "sunless world where even the air was poison". His only companions were "misbegotten horrors" and a giant alien necro-sorcerer thrice the height of a man who appears to have kept him as a curiosity and wielded him as a weapon in the wars against the other necromancers. He escapes, finds out that he has been lied to and that the corpses that supply the armies of the necromancers are his own kind, and then is forced to lead a rebellion against said alien overlords. He was never the pampered son. These aliens were so powerful that even in death, the psychic potency of their souls is enough to stop the heart of normal humans that look upon their spirits. We know he witnessed countless horrors and began to formulate his hatred of witchery based on the actions of his alien foster-father. There is a reason why pretty much every source lists him as being one of - if not the - most damaged of all the Primarchs.

 

I struggle to see how the plight of any of his brothers, bar perhaps Angron, even comes close. Almost all of the other Primarchs were taken in by people and raised in the traditions of their world. Mortarion was raised by an alien monster. It's not a surprise that he ended up a messed up character.

[bluntblade]

Medusa was immensely hostile, and it seems that Ferrus grew to maturity without a family. I'd say he sits about level with Horus for the grimness of his childhood, so about mid-tier.

 

Mortarion or Angron, as Loss says.

[Orwell84]

Completely Unknown: Alpharius, Dorn

 

 

Dorn likely falls under 'Bad planet/Decent upbringing'. Inwit was a iceball dangerous to its inhabitants, but they nonetheless managed to establish a small interstellar empire even during the Age of Strife. The patriarch of the House of Dorn raised the VII primarch as one of his own and was remembered fondly by Rogal as his 'grandfather'.

 

 

Perturabo: Same basic reasoning as Guilliman. Well developed planet, in favor with the ruling class, given lots of opportunity to grow and be his own person. I haven't read his Primarch novel, so correct me if I'm wrong, but his foster father seemed like a pretty decent guy (at least to Perty).

 

 

From memory Dammekos is presented in the novel as both a cunning opportunist using Perturabo and as a genuinely caring father-figure to him. The two mindsets aren't mutually exclusive, so the primarch believes the former while his 'sister' argues for the latter and both may well be right.

 

Olympia does come across as more of a viper's nest than Macragge but probably not enough to mould either number IV or number XIII too differently.

[bluntblade]

I don't know if it's still available to find, but someone wrote a lovely little fanfic of a young Dorn making snow forts and having a snowball fight with his grandfather.

[godking]

 

Completely Unknown: Alpharius, Dorn

 

 

Dorn likely falls under 'Bad planet/Decent upbringing'. Inwit was a iceball dangerous to its inhabitants, but they nonetheless managed to establish a small interstellar empire even during the Age of Strife. The patriarch of the House of Dorn raised the VII primarch as one of his own and was remembered fondly by Rogal as his 'grandfather'.

 

 

Perturabo: Same basic reasoning as Guilliman. Well developed planet, in favor with the ruling class, given lots of opportunity to grow and be his own person. I haven't read his Primarch novel, so correct me if I'm wrong, but his foster father seemed like a pretty decent guy (at least to Perty).

 

 

From memory Dammekos is presented in the novel as both a cunning opportunist using Perturabo and as a genuinely caring father-figure to him. The two mindsets aren't mutually exclusive, so the primarch believes the former while his 'sister' argues for the latter and both may well be right.

 

Olympia does come across as more of a viper's nest than Macragge but probably not enough to mould either number IV or number XIII too differently.

 

His sister was right.

 

Dammekos was an opportunist but did genuinely care about Perturabo only for Perturabo to rebuff every overture of kindness.

[godking]

Easiest Guilliman

 

Life before the emperor found him was basically on easy mode before the emperor found him regardless of the murder of his stepfather there was no real challenge for him.

 

 

Hardest Angron.

 

Never really had a chance.

[bluntblade]

With Mortarion and Angron there's one "at least" each. In the former case it's that he did escape and become a great leader, the latter got bouts of Nails-induced "serenity".

I don't know if it's still available to find, but someone wrote a lovely little fanfic of a young Dorn making snow forts and having a snowball fight with his grandfather.

You know you wanna see it.

[Scribe]

Easiest Guilliman

 

Life before the emperor found him was basically on easy mode before the emperor found him regardless of the murder of his stepfather there was no real challenge for him.

 

 

Hardest Angron.

 

Never really had a chance.

 

I feel this is correct. 

[b1soul]

Angron...with Mortarion a somewhat distant second (his brain wasn't butchered)

[Fedor]

There were some cool, albeit brief new snippets of lore on Ferrus childhood in his book. It seems he was hunted for much of his childhood by a Clan leader that was utilising a host of mechanised constructs, maybe including dark age tech considering Medusa's past to stalk him. The Lion and his similar circumstances of battling and surviving against beasts/tech monstrosities for years in isolation is an interesting one in seeing how it shaped their personalities in different ways.

 

I hope we get some new insight on how exactly Angron came to have the nails in his primarch book. I find it hard to imagine it happened right after he was found. There could be a dark story of a young, brilliant but naive mind being betrayed there. Maybe he came under the wing of the ruling class, or otherwise influential people, but instead of the nurturing Guilliman got, they grew fearful of the prodigious abilities a young primarch would be displaying?.

[Lord_Caerolion]

From what we've been told, it was basically straight into the pits for Angron. Knowing him, he probably fought against the people trying to bring him in, so they decided they may as well make use of his talents.

[bluntblade]

I'd say Mortarion is really neck and neck with Angron. There's torture and guilt in the mix for him as well as mental trauma.

[Scribe]

I'd say Mortarion is really neck and neck with Angron. There's torture and guilt in the mix for him as well as mental trauma.

 

Mortarion at least grew and developed to the point where he had a choice in his path.

 

Angron never had that choice, and as a child, was mutilated, and forced into a life of slavery. Its not close. :p

[bluntblade]

Marshal Loss explains eloquently that Mortarion has to reckon with the fact that his father's made him into a monster, early on. Read between the lines and he's at the very least serving the thing he will hate most of all for centuries.

[Scribe]

Yeah? I dont wish to downplay this...but he suffered some probably mental/physical abuse.

 

Angron had a pain machine implanted into his brain to the point where the greatest minds known to humanity had no way of reversing the perpetual torture that was literally killing an 'immortal' warp powered god of war.

 

Oh, and he had this pain machine from when he was a child.

 

I read Marshal's posts, great posts. Its not close though.

 

If you had to subject your child to one life or the other who's do you pick?

[Ingo Pech]

Nice topic but I would put Ferrus in group three:

 

Medusa is a harsh and unrelenting mother(world) and as deadly as Fenris.

 

You have darkness, ice, volcanos, earthquakes, storms, (sea)monsters, giants, Necrons (or renegade mechanicum-related constructs....), deadly clan-wars...

[karden00]

Was Mortarion's upbringing that bad though? I imagine it was like being Kim Jung Il's son. Was your dad a walking human rights violation? Of course. But was the kid actually suffering every day? It can be pretty warm under the dragon's wing. And there is plenty of leash to do what you want. If Mortarion spent his formative years chained in a basement being experimented on, then ya, total crap childhood. But if he was the untouchable prince of the worlds harshest dictator, then I struggle to say he had a harder time growing up than half of his brothers.

 

I’ve rarely been interested in Mortarion or his legion, but his childhood...that is a novel I would read.

[bluntblade]

He was untouchable in the sense that he was caged on a mountain crag in poisonous clouds. Seriously, the Stygian Scrolls stuff in Betrayal is some of the best material FW have put in a Black Book.