Using pysops for competitive build.

[shaun03]

It's no secret we have solid codex that can use to build powerful competitive forces, and if going down the soup route we can make some devastating list. Are we OP no, our codex is still in honeymoon phase, and we are growing player basic its still not a common army to see across the table top. So all these factors lead to the " you can do that or that model cost what, etc"

 

However strong players are adapting fast and learning to counter our obvious strength and net list.  

 

So I taking a different approach, using what I have tried out on the table and one of less seen builds in my area. The dark creed, I jumped on as soon the I got the codex and haven't look back, taking notes from each and W and L and seeing what weakness need addressing. 

 

As of now playing the LD game, has few major draw backs, IG tank list, Nid list with synaptic range bubble. Some buffet Ork list with LD modifiers, dark angle builds or mixed in bubble for hellblaster abuse and few other not seen to often, So if your meta is filled with that, the LD game might not work out to well. But we adding the right tools, they can be counter. 

 

Right now my list center on wracks 5man strong 2 in a raider w/ PGL and GT this maxing out the -3 before PGL shoots, and the GT when it works hurts , the mantory 2 hemy. Cheap builds, relics either the pistol and vector mask or the helm of spite. Depending on the how the rest of list is build.

6 toalos 2x3 tried out different builds haven't make decision on finale load out.

3 void raven bombers, yes razorwings are less points, I just prefer bombers, I guess its JTAC in me like dropping hate from high altitude. When someone gets cute and runs max squad of hellblaster, dropping void mine on them is hurts, more so when you double or triple drop depending on what else needs to eat a warhead . Also there sold AT, and not easily counter.  

Point fillers, mandrakes while cool don't  sync well with LD game, they don't offer something I'm missing, same with Incubi. 

Scourges, cheap and effective and augment where I'm weak. I like shredders, great for hordes and W2 things. 

Tantalus i used for rule of cool and as a rap train, when i leave the bombers at home. But I holding off until i see what the FAQ and updates bring. 

 

For CW stuff, the only stuff  I looked at was shadow spectors with their Phoenix lord, cool and somewhat fluffy but heavy point drop, and not overall benefiting the list, loosing to much. I know about the other LD stuff but I not going to sacrifice the look of my DE just to try and score a win. 

 

Harlequins, the 41MM version of ICP, Once the leaks came out with silent shrouds, they look like great addition to playing the LD game and not loosing the sick and twisted look of my army, and fit the fluff and rule of cool. They can shutdown the Overwatch, paired with vector mask, means tau are crying and everything els gets there feeling hurts. 

I just don't know too much about their  individual units, and what to run as what. Got the codex coming, I know about death jester LD and shaowseer lD spells so they need to be in. Giving their one of highest PPM armies out there, adding anything and choosing the detachment is where I'm struggling. 

 

I starting to get tunnel vision when writing up list, so need some outside perspective.

 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Using leadership debuff lists certainly depends on the meta. For local games it may work but for any large competitive event I think it is going to struggle. In addition to the army archetypes you listed there are many other lists that don't care about leadership. Many lists are centered on strong single-model units like demon princes or Banana captains. Plenty of meta armies have ways of ignoring leadership.

 

You can certainly build in leadership debuffs but your list has to do other things well or you're going to have a hard time. The leadership debuff should add spice to the list, not be the list. Grotesques and Talos really seem to be competitive as well. Using them in your debuff soup is one way to be competitive with a debuff "spice".

 

CWE and Harlequins definitely have units that will compliment your ideas for leadership debuffs. And generally fill some holes in our lists.

 

Tantalus works well with the Dark Creed stratagem. But I expect it gets FAQ'ed at some point (the guys are FLG said as much in a podcast). And although I am amused by the image of calling the Tantalus a "rap train" (all of the occupants free-styling rap) I expect you meant another term, "crush train". One which we shouldn't be using. As men let's do better. After all there are much better terms to call the slaughter which we want our toy soldiers to commit. "Murder make" is my favorite for my Wolves.

 

Edit: looks like the filters changed that other quoted term. Well done B&C, you are woke as heck.

[Lord_Caerolion]

On the Dark City forums, there used to be a tactica for the leadership-bomb style armies, the Freakshow. It used to be quite nasty, especially combined with some of the various psychic powers, especially a Harlequin one where the target had to keep taking leadership tests until they passed, taking a wound each time they failed. With enough support, you could get it to the point that it became an insta-kill power.

 

The only problem, personally, is that while the theme certainly fits my Archon, my Coven are much more "survive at all costs" than "feed on their fear". 

 

As for a term to replace "rap train", we're based on the fae. Let's use that. Let's bring the Wild Hunt down on the poor Mon-Keigh who happen to be in our path.

[shaun03]

On grander level LD game will fail as pointed out by you guys, local  meta it's ok, some of my choices so far aren't super competitive so tweaking it is need.  Solid point about adding it augment the list not being the focus of the list, thats were my tunnel vision came in and I got wrapped up looking to one dimensional at the list.

 

I'm look at running 9 talos 3x3, Which i may end up doing, than thats not much room for grots or other things. On the other hand if you go grot heavy than not much room for talos to be effective. I think running the meat mountain of grots is going to depend on how bad the tantalus gets hit the nerf bat, point cost now is in the tough decision field. If jumps up than hit the life decision level. It might not be worth tossing them in it, so far its nasty combo, but again trying to plan when there looming FAQ coming is tough. 

 

In new harlequin codex, theres not powers that play on the LD game, the one has lower it -1 and take d3 MW. I believe they were rewritten as the other one is just roll a d6 and if you win they take 1MW do this until you lose the roll of D6. 

 

I'm going to toy around with 3x3 talos in list and see if to much of investment in points.