Advice versus Admech

[Captain Incompetence]

Greetings fellow commanders!

 

I've been running into some problems playing against a friend of mine at the shop who plays AdMech. In essence, the issue I have are with his blocks of Kastelan robots supported by Cawl. These things are chewing up not just my infantry squads, but chimera's, hellhounds, armoured sentinels and even do decent damage against my leman russ tanks. I've tried shooting the things off the table with Leman Russ battle tanks, but have found this to be unreliable with his 4 to 5+ invul saves, even using the overlapping fields of fire strategem. Another issue is that if I don't try to clear his dunecrawlers and Warglaives, my tanks don't seem to live that long with their -4 ap guns.

 

So, how do you guys deal with shooty AdMech lists and invul saves in general? I was thinking I should perhaps try spamming smite on them, but I'm not exactly sure that's viable with the Guard. The tip I got from my opponent and other AdMech players in the shop was to simply charge the Kastelans and lock them in combat, but even a sacrificial chimera with a bullgryn squad can't seem reach the target. Am I just being true to my name and missing something obvious? Or are there other people struggling with this matchup aswell?

[Halfpint100]

I havent played cawl and his robots before. But if you need to get in close. Maybe try a valkyrie with bullgryns?

 

Or if your tanks are getting shot off, try and tallarn detatchment and outflank and bunch of stuff? should be simple if he is castling. 3 russes, 1 company commander and 30 infantry showing up on a flank will be a pain. Especially if the rest of your army is pushing up as well. 

 

Other point, what range are his robots? I know the dunecrawlers are long range, but is it possible to outrange him?

[WarriorFish]

Sounds tough, but if you're hoping to lock down a shooty unit you'll likely need more than a single unit trying. Invulnerable saves are annoying, but spam fire accounts for them well enough. Numbers is always key for Guard, so try to get as many units on the table as you can so you can throw more dice and take more hits.

 

AdMech are a strong shooty army, so with Guard being shooting focused you'll need to play to your strengths as much as you can. What sort of points are you playing at, and what units do you take?

[FallenSoldiers]

The best thing you have is that you can seriously out range those robots. The Crawlers will have you in range, so exploit LoS blocking terrain. Don’t count on any single unit taking robots out. You’ll need to focus them down, or they’ll likely start to repair.

 

Cawl makes things a bitch since he will heal them D3 per turn, if you start to wound one either finish it off or, if you can’t, focus on something else you CAN kill, otherwise you’re wasting shots that he will likely repair.

 

Close Combat is risky since Cawl will have them rerolling all overwatch shots too. I’d say range is your biggest friend here. If they anchor to shoot twice they can’t move, so out maneuver them!

[Thorakitai]

The best thing you have is that you can seriously out range those robots. The Crawlers will have you in range, so exploit LoS blocking terrain. Don’t count on any single unit taking robots out. You’ll need to focus them down, or they’ll likely start to repair.

 

Cawl makes things a bitch since he will heal them D3 per turn, if you start to wound one either finish it off or, if you can’t, focus on something else you CAN kill, otherwise you’re wasting shots that he will likely repair.

 

Close Combat is risky since Cawl will have them rerolling all overwatch shots too. I’d say range is your biggest friend here. If they anchor to shoot twice they can’t move, so out maneuver them!

Cawl's buff applies only in the shooting phase, so no rerolls in overwatch.

 

I've used the Cawl Wall fairly extensively, usually allied with my guard, over about 30 games, when I lose the robots, it's usually to fast flying close combat units with high strength multidamage weapons and good AP. For example, there was one time a Bloodthirster that got loose behind my lines. I've only lost the entire unit to shooting once, to an index Dark Angels list with Azrael and some lascannon razorbacks. The guard codex is conspicuously lacking is the above type of CC units, but can bring the pain with lascannons like no other army.

 

Your best tactic (imho) is to either force them to keep moving to stay in range, or park some Annihilators 37" away after they change modes. Bring some psykers and techpriests for support, and a take commander or two for strike and shroud. Screen well (as usual) and shoot straight, and you'll have a chance.

[FallenSoldiers]

You’re right, my bad I was thinking of Bobby.

[Tallarn Commander]

Against Admech I've had good results outflanking and then charging a horsie squad, a captain, and 3 line infantry squads. It harasses the Admech playee and gives you a bit more breathing room.

 

These days you can't try this tactic til Turn 2 though.

[crimsondave]

I haven't played Admech, but have you tried Scions if you have them? If you could keep out of range turn 1 where they had to move he might not keep a screen enough to keep you beyond 12" turn 2. Drop in a TP with command rod, a squad with 2 plasmas, and a command squad with 4 plasma. Use the re-roll 1's order on them both and, if they are vehicles or monsters, you can give the Scion order for a command point to re-roll wounds. If you can take them in their own detachment you could generate extra plasma hits with 6+ to hit rolls. More hits seem to be the way to deal with inv saves.

[Captain Incompetence]

 

The best thing you have is that you can seriously out range those robots. The Crawlers will have you in range, so exploit LoS blocking terrain. Don’t count on any single unit taking robots out. You’ll need to focus them down, or they’ll likely start to repair.

 

Cawl makes things a bitch since he will heal them D3 per turn, if you start to wound one either finish it off or, if you can’t, focus on something else you CAN kill, otherwise you’re wasting shots that he will likely repair.

 

Close Combat is risky since Cawl will have them rerolling all overwatch shots too. I’d say range is your biggest friend here. If they anchor to shoot twice they can’t move, so out maneuver them!

Cawl's buff applies only in the shooting phase, so no rerolls in overwatch.

 

I've used the Cawl Wall fairly extensively, usually allied with my guard, over about 30 games, when I lose the robots, it's usually to fast flying close combat units with high strength multidamage weapons and good AP. For example, there was one time a Bloodthirster that got loose behind my lines. I've only lost the entire unit to shooting once, to an index Dark Angels list with Azrael and some lascannon razorbacks. The guard codex is conspicuously lacking is the above type of CC units, but can bring the pain with lascannons like no other army.

 

Your best tactic (imho) is to either force them to keep moving to stay in range, or park some Annihilators 37" away after they change modes. Bring some psykers and techpriests for support, and a take commander or two for strike and shroud. Screen well (as usual) and shoot straight, and you'll have a chance.

 

 

I did not know Cawl's buff did not apply in overwatch, interesting stuff! I think you're probably right that I should try and outrange them, but it's hard to keep objectives secured on the map without being in range of them. Do you think it's worth ignoring the kastellans in the first turn to try and take down the dunecrawlers and warglaives so his threat towards my tanks is reduced? Or do you find it better to take out the kastellans asap?

 

I haven't played Admech, but have you tried Scions if you have them? If you could keep out of range turn 1 where they had to move he might not keep a screen enough to keep you beyond 12" turn 2. Drop in a TP with command rod, a squad with 2 plasmas, and a command squad with 4 plasma. Use the re-roll 1's order on them both and, if they are vehicles or monsters, you can give the Scion order for a command point to re-roll wounds. If you can take them in their own detachment you could generate extra plasma hits with 6+ to hit rolls. More hits seem to be the way to deal with inv saves.

 

I have tried scions, but not as a seperate detachment. The one to two squads I bring tend to die the round after they drop in though, but perhaps I should be a bit more conservative with them instead of suicide dropping them into 12" range to try and blast a target off the table with overcharged plasma shots. I also hadn't actually considered you could take a patrol detachment with just 1 regular squad, a command squad and the tempestor prime for the maximum amount of plasma, thanks for pointing that out to me. Seems quite powerful for the pointcost.

[Bluflash]

Triple tank commanders (and/or Pask) with battle cannons can often outrange the shooty bots. With lascannons and plasma cannons they tend to do very solid damage at 48" and 36" as well. Once he locks the bots in place, outrange them.

[Weaselfish]

Couple catachan units with stracken, a priest, and an Inquisitor to deny overwatch? Or use said Inquisitor to have Cawl attack his own unit like the dirty heretic he is.

[bigmic66]

I'm using dual vostroyan shadowswords. Will eat bots.