Bikes vs. Stormbolters

[Prot]

Kind of an odd question or observation but what I was hoping to get some really good use out of is the plethora of bikes I have sitting around largely doing nothing. (Actually same goes for terminators.).

 

Anyway, I was thinking how nice it would be to field these units in some tough games. I'm wondering if anyone is going to bother with the advent of Stormbolter SIA and Deep striking. Mostly the SIA seems really good.

[Moostick]

I've tried a 4 biker, 1 VV unit and they have been pretty terrible for the times I've used them. T5 really didn't make that much of a difference against most weaponry, and they're not very good assault units either. Survivability is an issue without VVs with SS, but that takes up too many spots in a unit. Nothing justified the 33% increase in cost compared to SB Vet.

 

Their main advantage is their movement to capture objectives, but I don't believe we should be playing objective holding as DW to begin with. A DW army has a much easier time just outright trying to table the opponent or getting the purge/annihilation objectives.

 

Terminators are "better" because their simple presence is considered a threat to the opponent that they must deal with. Plus, they can actually survive more than a turn if they're focused on.

 

TL;dr, Bikers still aren't good.

[Prot]

Ah darn. Was hoping to hear otherwise. So I guess we’re back to vanilla squads. I hope the Primaris truly do work out. Otherwise I may find the lack of scope a little too confining for me personally.

 

But very good to hear about the Terminators. I loved mine, but they have multiple assault cannons.

[Delta.Skies]

Yea I stumbled across some cheap bikes on Ebay, and figured why not. And will be using them to capture objectives. I'm using AM as allies for my gun line. So bikes on one end vanguard on the other. And if they get wiped out, dropping in scions. But yea I will be using them as objective holders

[Finkmilkana]

Bikers are kinda the middle ground between vets and Primaris (per point). They do more damage than primaris (4 shots at 29 is more than 2 shots at 20) and are more durable than SB vets (twice the wounds and T5 for 9 more points). But they deal less damage than SB vets and are less durable than primaris. Added to this, they are faster.

 

Personally, I prefer bikers over primaris for grabbing objectives. Veterans are still the best offensively.

[Inquisitor Red]

I gotta disagree with you guys I think our bikes are actually really solid. If your trying to run them in a kill team unit then yeah they're trash. But as a solo 3 man squad I think they're really solid. 

 

For a mere 87 points (3 man unit) your getting 6 T5 wound models that are immune to moral, moving fast, and pumping out x12 SIA shots when within rapid fire range. They make for great objective grabbers, and for clearing any screens. 

[leth]

I plan to run a bike/vets unit 5 and 5. 2-3 vets will have storm shields. Basically it’s 40 shots, T5, 2-3 bullet catchers bikes take small arms, vets take multi-wound. Seems like the best way to balance out the unit/compare to primaris survivability.

 

Also if you are running the 3 man bike squads, give the SGT a Storm Bolter so the unit puts out 16 shots.

[Vel'Cona]

The problem I have with Bikers vs. Veterans is that while Bikers are more durable with extra wounds/mobility, pretty much all they can do is spam SIA TL Bolters.  You could upgrade them for melee with some Power Weapons, but without special weapon or heavy weapon options Veterans ultimately offer immensely higher levels of flexibility and take up compulsory slots in our all-important Battalions.  As others have mentioned, pure Bikers' advantages are roughly countered by the vast amount of firepower available in 8th edition (especially of the multi-damage variety), so at the end of the day they die about as easily as their footslogging counterparts.

 

Now, when slid into a Kill Team there's a bit more credibility for Bikers but unfortunately this limits us to Corvus Blackstars for transport or soaking up those critical Teleportarium slots.  Unless OFC you like the idea of your expensive mixed Kill Teams walking (driving?) to battle . . .

[Finkmilkana]

The problem I have with Bikers vs. Veterans is that while Bikers are more durable with extra wounds/mobility, pretty much all they can do is spam SIA TL Bolters.

The sergeant in a 3 man squad can actually take the same items as a normal veteran in addition to the combi Bolter (including Melta gun, plasma gun or storm shield). A ratio of 2 guys with (effectively) a SB to one guy with special weapon and SB seems generally a good idea if you want anything else than more SB. Besides, SB with SIA are so good, they are pretty much the best weapon for anything but dedicated anti tank (which simply is not the role of bikers). So just SB and Stormshield on the sergeant for a 96 point squad that has 16 SIA shots in rapid fire range and has one model with 3++ save seems really strong. Not overpowered, but certainly better in most situations than for example a 5 man primaris squad.

[Mobius0288]

I'm on the fence with bikers at the moment. I didn't really like them before but I'm starting to see some synergy, at least in my army. They especially have synergy if you plan to run several razorbacks, rhinos and/or blackstars. Are they worth trying to use as a kill team or an intercessor unit for holding objectives? Not for me. They are purely a harasser unit against infantry, so that's how I use them; pepper infantry with bullets and pave the way for my infantry unit.

 

It didn't get a chance to use the 3 bikes/2 VV w/ storm shields because they were smited off the board first thing, but a regular squad of 3 and storm bolter did pretty decent damage AND managed to tie up some units (and psychic powers) while my other units did work else where.

 

Should they be taken over a 5-7 man veteran squad with storm bolters and storm shields? No, definitely not... but I also don't spam storm bolters. I've simply added a few extra into squads (Sgt's, etc). You can deep strike your storm bolter squad, stick them in a pod or blackstar with another unit and dish out better damage then deep striking bikes. Bikes with storm bolter and chainswords are cheaper, however, compared to a 5 man storm bolter squad plus add in some storm shields (and a termie for good measure?)

[leth]

IMO Deathwatch are too expensive to start any meaningful units on the table.  I run two units of 10 and a Watch Master in deep strike, the rest is cheap units/allies to keep the power level on the table up/meet that third troop choice.  You need every model to hit hard.  Every model that is not shooting hard is driving up your points per shot. 

[Vel'Cona]

IMO Deathwatch are too expensive to start any meaningful units on the table.

 

Probably another reason allies are sort of necessary.  We need to get some bodies on the table to give us enough clout for deep strike, and you really don't want to be wasting expensive Veterans (or Primaris) for this role.

[vigitant]

Using a couple of cheap bike units to clear a section of screen turn 1 is pretty solid.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm looking at a 10 man squad with 5 bikers to be combat squadded into fast objective grabbers. The other half will turtle on another objective.

[leth]

I'm looking at a 10 man squad with 5 bikers to be combat squadded into fast objective grabbers. The other half will turtle on another objective.

That is my plan as well, although I don’t see myself combat squaring often just because both units lose out on a lot of survivability as a result. Regular marines lose the additional wounds and toughness from bikes, and bikes lose the storm shields/ q wound bodies from heavier fire.