Sons of Horus - needing a little start up advice.

[Ranulf]

Greetings all!

 

I thought I'd pick a few brains before jumping into the process of putting together models for a 30K force. I'm essentially starting from the ground up - I was an avid 40K gamer during 2nd and 3rd edition and then took a 10 year leave of absence from the hobby, effectively missing the launch of the 30K game system and fiction releases.

 

I'm slowly catching up on the reading and have picked up a whole bunch (60-odd) of MKIII & MKIV dudes on sprue along with some Cataphractii and a few FW bits and pieces. (Praetors, torsos, heads, transfers) 

 

Despite always running with Imperials, i've decided to give the traitorous Sons of Horus a crack in 30K - based on one of the pictures from an early IA article, (a sea-green SoH) the first five books in the HH series and of course, the Warmaster himself. I'm very much a narrative gamer at heart, so i'd like any lists I put together to reflect how the Legion operated. 

 

As to specifics:

 

#1 - I'd like the army to represent one of the unnamed and unmentioned Battalions within a Chapter, effectively making it DIY in terms of leaders/history etc. The problem is that I like both the rules and colour scheme of the Justaerin Terminators over the standard - were they a force that operated solely under Abaddon as a part of the 1st Company or is there evidence of them being placed under the command of other leaders outside of the 1st? 

 

#2 - After reading HH: Betrayal, I came across lots of references to the SoH favouring the deployment and use of Tactical Squads - do most people see the SOH as an infantry-heavy army? How effective are large squads of Tacticals with an attached Apothecary - the 7th ed rules aren't that dissimilar to the 3rd ed I remember with regard to armour saves, so i'm assuming that big MEQ squads are fairly resilient? 

 

#3 - How are Rapier Weapon Batteries seen in relation to the SoH? I quite like the idea of the the Thudd gun, but I'm unsure on how cumbersome foot artillery fits in with the 'shock and awe' vibe of the SoH.

 

#4 - Dreadclaw Drop Pods - If i decide not to run Cataphractii in a Land Raider how effective in people's experience are the pods? A worthwhile investment to get them into the fray or should I stick with a trusty Land Raider for transport/anti-tank?

 

#5 - Rites of War - Currently I'm leaning towards Pride of the Legion because of the lack of limitations and the ability to included Vet Squads as Troops. (In Rhinos to form a mobile force with the Drop Pod/Land Raider mounted Cataphractii) Can anyone shed some light on the other options? 

 

#6 - I'm unsure whether to run with Predators or Sicarans for armour. The Sicaran tanks (standard, Venator and Omega) look the part and are a nice step away from the 40K aesthetic but how do they stack up against the cheaper Predators?

 

#7 - Fast attack choices - Love the look of the Scimitar jetbikes and Javelin Attack Speeders - any tips on load-outs?

 

#8 - Leviathan Dreadnought - a must have for me. The question is: Twin Storm Cannon or Grav-Flux and Siege Claw? Also, does anyone use the Phosphex Discharger and if so, is it any good for murdering stuff?

 

...and a final question:

 

Does anyone know where I can beg/buy/barter/steal/smuggle Lupercal Green and Sons of Horus Green? I ordered a pot of each a few months back and then missed the 'last call' when they cut off supply. So far it's my favourite shade of green on test minis (over both Kabalite/Sybarite and USMC Tank Crew)

 

Thanks in advance for any help brothers!

 

-Ran

[Marshal Loss]

#1 - The first company was quite small in number and made up of two formations - the Catulan Reavers and the Justaerin Terminators, both with their own captain (Kalus Ekaddon and Falkus Kibre respectively), under the overall command of Abaddon. But not all Justaerin entered combat as Terminators, and we've seen small detachments of them seconded to other captains in various novels. Additionally, the Sons of Horus were incredibly idiosyncratic when it came to their colour scheme and organisation, so there's no reason you couldn't do a pure force of first company under the command of a line captain/chieftain (delegated by Abaddon for example). Remember that the original Sons of Horus back in the 20th century were black, not green, so there's no reason you can't do an all black army anyway if that's what you're after. So far the only time we've seen them used in whats appears to be their entirety was on Molech (500 Terminators). 

 

#2 - It depends on your local meta, but overall large squads of tacticals with apothecaries aren't particularly good on their own. Killing massed marines is very easy in 30k. Some areas play variants which encourage using all infantry armies ('Centurion mode') however. I've never seen the Sons of Horus as being particularly infantry heavy though, rather that they always had a core of flexible troops able to do whatever role was required of them, but they're a reasonably large legion, so concentrate on whatever aspect you like.

 

#3 - Again, they're a large legion that was proud of their ability to do anything and also the best equipped thanks to the Warmaster's patronage. They always had the equipment needed to get the job done. If you like thudd guns, use them.

 

#4 - Dreadclaws are brilliant. Not only are they very fluffy and look awesome, they allow you to potentially drop down Terminators with combi-weapons on turn 1, allowing you to get the lethal Death Dealers bonus as soon as possible. I'd almost always use them or a (Kharybdis) over a Land Raider.

 

#5 - Rites of War - The Long March is my favourite for the Sons of Horus because it gives you a wide variety of little bonuses without any real restrictions (it's quite good for massed infantry too, which might suit you). PoTL is great for them though because they really suit an elite army. Black Reaving is fun, but not very competitive because the restrictions are too significant. Note that if you include Maloghurst, you can run Veterans and Reavers as troops - he's an absolutely amazing HQ that is an auto-include in any SoH army, if you don't mind using special characters, imo, because he basically lets you merge two Rites of War into one: an army of Land Raiders and Veterans, Drop Pods and Veterans, etc. On the occasions where you include both Horus and Maloghurst, you get Veterans, Reavers and Justaerin as troops in addition to the usual choices. Lots of flexibility!

 

#6 - Others may be able to shed more light here, as I've never used Predators in 30k. I think Sicarans are more fun to use and fit the SoH theme better (speedy and shiny new technology that other Legions wouldn't be able to get their hands on as easily), and most Sicarans are reasonably powerful on the tabletop.

 

#7 - Remember that Jetbikes unfortunately do not get the 'Merciless Fighters' outnumbering bonus. Never really used them much though. Javelin Speeders are absolutely brilliant - give them missile launchers and two hunter-killer missiles for a fast unit that can slam 4 S8 missiles into enemy side armour.

 

#8 - The Phosphex Discharger is definitely good at murdering stuff. I'd go with the grav-flux over the stormcannon every time.

 

EDIT: as for the green, there is a small chance that it might be coming back - the FW staff have asked GW whether this can be done, but it's early stages. Your best bet is to go onto the Facebook Heresy trading groups and looking for people that are happy to part with their pots. Honestly I'd just mix your own colour though, it's what I do, and you're not going to be in danger of not matching FW's colour long-term if they don'[t bring it back.

[bluntblade]

FW books talk about the SoH transitioning to viridian and black from their sea green colours, and that does show in some of the Legionary pics they have.

[Marshal Loss]

There's slightly more to it than that, as I spoke to Bligh about this: Betrayal specifically notes a green-black (so it gets darker, a black green, not black and green). Black armour panels were used in both the Luna Wolves and the Sons of Horus as a sign of status, so it was already a trend prior to the heresy, and only the 1st company wore all black and red in the current iteration. Given their 'cult of personality' tendencies it's totally appropriate to come up with your own system of differentiation, though, it's one of the great strengths of having such an idiosyncratic legion. It may seem a minor distinction though, but the black panels are part of an overarching trend that is distinct to the darkening of their armour, which was put in to represent their descent into evil and allow for variation between armies because of the difficulty inherent in replicating the art.

 

I'll post my notes with all of the SoH nuggets he gave me sometime. God that man was brilliant.

 

e: punctuation

[bluntblade]

There's slightly more to it than that, as I spoke to Bligh about this: Betrayal specifically notes a green-black (so it gets darker, a black green, not black and green). Black armour panels were used in both the Luna Wolves and the Sons of Horus as a sign of status, so it was already a trend prior to the heresy, and only the 1st company wore all black and red in the current iteration. Given their 'cult of personality' tendencies it's totally appropriate to come up with your own system of differentiation, though, it's one of the great strengths of having such an idiosyncratic legion. It may seem a minor distinction though, but the black panels are part of an overarching trend that is distinct to the darkening of their armour, which was put in to represent their descent into evil and allow for variation between armies because of the difficulty inherent in replicating the art.

 

I'll post my notes with all of the SoH nuggets he gave me sometime. God that man was brilliant.

i await with keen interest

[Ranulf]

Thanks for the response Marshal Loss, much appreciated (from a fellow Aussie no less )  

 

#1 - The first company was quite small in number and made up of two formations - the Catulan Reavers and the Justaerin Terminators, both with their own captain (Kalus Ekaddon and Falkus Kibre respectively), under the overall command of Abaddon. But not all Justaerin entered combat as Terminators, and we've seen small detachments of them seconded to other captains in various novels. Additionally, the Sons of Horus were incredibly idiosyncratic when it came to their colour scheme and organisation, so there's no reason you couldn't do a pure force of first company under the command of a line captain/chieftain (delegated by Abaddon for example). Remember that the original Sons of Horus back in the 20th century were black, not green, so there's no reason you can't do an all black army anyway if that's what you're after. So far the only time we've seen them used in whats appears to be their entirety was on Molech (500 Terminators). 

 

 

 

I guess there's room to slide a unit of Justaerin Terminators into my otherwise homogeneous company, perhaps with a Terminator-armoured Centurion/Praetor to represent Ekaddon or Kibre leading the squad - directed (or accompanied) by Abaddon to support a line company in an assault. 

 

To be clear - the company will be the standard green colour scheme - I just liked the look (and rules) of a single unit of black and red Cataphractii in the sea of green. 

 

Of course, I could always just run the standard Cataphractii and drop the saved points into something else... 

 

 

#4 - Dreadclaws are brilliant. Not only are they very fluffy and look awesome, they allow you to potentially drop down Terminators with combi-weapons on turn 1, allowing you to get the lethal Death Dealers bonus as soon as possible. I'd almost always use them or a (Kharybdis) over a Land Raider.

 

#5 - Rites of War - The Long March is my favourite for the Sons of Horus because it gives you a wide variety of little bonuses without any real restrictions (it's quite good for massed infantry too, which might suit you). PoTL is great for them though because they really suit an elite army. Black Reaving is fun, but not very competitive because the restrictions are too significant. Note that if you include Maloghurst, you can run Veterans and Reavers as troops - he's an absolutely amazing HQ that is an auto-include in any SoH army, if you don't mind using special characters, imo, because he basically lets you merge two Rites of War into one: an army of Land Raiders and Veterans, Drop Pods and Veterans, etc. On the occasions where you include both Horus and Maloghurst, you get Veterans, Reavers and Justaerin as troops in addition to the usual choices. Lots of flexibility!

 

I'm toying with the idea of eschewing vehicles and running the Orbital Assault RoW to run a type of force that's very different from what i've ever done before. I am a bit hesitant to drop all that coin on standard Pods (plus Dreadclaws and Kharybdis) to build a force that's infantry heavy with the majority of anti-tank stuck on Dreadnoughts. It could be fun though.

 

After looking at The Long March, I can see the advantages with regards to mobility - Crusader would work wonders against a gunline in the enemy deployment zone.

 

I'm probably not going to include named Characters at this point, although I'll probably crack when (if) I get the courage to try and paint Horus at some point.

 

 

 

#8 - The Phosphex Discharger is definitely good at murdering stuff. I'd go with the grav-flux over the stormcannon every time.

 

I'll be magnetizing anyway, so the Grav-flux will be a good starting point. 

 

 

 

EDIT: as for the green, there is a small chance that it might be coming back - the FW staff have asked GW whether this can be done, but it's early stages. Your best bet is to go onto the Facebook Heresy trading groups and looking for people that are happy to part with their pots. Honestly I'd just mix your own colour though, it's what I do, and you're not going to be in danger of not matching FW's colour long-term if they don'[t bring it back.

 

I had a quick look at your perpetually inactive blog for insights but couldn't find anything about the colour you use - is your avatar your own work? If so, you mind sharing the paints used?

 

 

 

There's slightly more to it than that, as I spoke to Bligh about this: Betrayal specifically notes a green-black (so it gets darker, a black green, not black and green). Black armour panels were used in both the Luna Wolves and the Sons of Horus as a sign of status, so it was already a trend prior to the heresy, and only the 1st company wore all black and red in the current iteration. Given their 'cult of personality' tendencies it's totally appropriate to come up with your own system of differentiation, though, it's one of the great strengths of having such an idiosyncratic legion. It may seem a minor distinction though, but the black panels are part of an overarching trend that is distinct to the darkening of their armour, which was put in to represent their descent into evil and allow for variation between armies because of the difficulty inherent in replicating the art.

 

I was looking to bring in black panels to break up the green - faceplates, knees, gauntlets etc - and to denote veteran status. I'm looking at taking some cues from Christoffer's work over at the Dorn's Arrow blog.

 

Along with a darker green, prevalence of Cthonian gang glyphs, topknots and mohawks, it should mark my SoH as a Post-Istvaan force firmly rooted in their loyalties to the Warmaster.

 

 

 

I'll post my notes with all of the SoH nuggets he gave me sometime. God that man was brilliant.

 

Something I'd love to read.

 

- Ran

[Bluedoo]

There's slightly more to it than that, as I spoke to Bligh about this: Betrayal specifically notes a green-black (so it gets darker, a black green, not black and green). Black armour panels were used in both the Luna Wolves and the Sons of Horus as a sign of status, so it was already a trend prior to the heresy, and only the 1st company wore all black and red in the current iteration. Given their 'cult of personality' tendencies it's totally appropriate to come up with your own system of differentiation, though, it's one of the great strengths of having such an idiosyncratic legion. It may seem a minor distinction though, but the black panels are part of an overarching trend that is distinct to the darkening of their armour, which was put in to represent their descent into evil and allow for variation between armies because of the difficulty inherent in replicating the art.

 

I'll post my notes with all of the SoH nuggets he gave me sometime. God that man was brilliant.

 

e: punctuation

 

I'd love if you can find these as well. I often thought the FW mix they used for the display items on the website was spot on for a grey/green/blue color, that could be washed to make them as heretic/loyalist you'd like.

 

 

"Does anyone know where I can beg/buy/barter/steal/smuggle Lupercal Green and Sons of Horus Green? I ordered a pot of each a few months back and then missed the 'last call' when they cut off supply. So far it's my favourite shade of green on test minis (over both Kabalite/Sybarite and USMC Tank Crew)"

To respond to your question about the FW acrylic airbrush colors Lupercal Green and Sons of Horus Green, have no fear....

 

Lupercal Green =

Incubi Darkness, or Scurvy Green Vallejo Model Color. (Incubi Darkness is a little more blue, but Scurvy Green is a 99% match. Unnoticeable to the eye on my palette. )

 

Sons of Horus Green =

It sounds more complicated on paper. 1/4 Vallejo Basalt Grey, 1/4 Vallejo Green Sky, 1/4 Vallejo Deep Green, and 1/4 Vallejo Model Color Turquoise. Perfect match on my palette after many failures. 

 

The beauty of my Sons of Horus mix IMO, is it allows you to change the mix as you'd like. A little too green for your taste? A spot more turquoise. Too grey? More Green Sky. 

Sybarite is too light and green, Kabalite has a bit of blue but is too dark. The laziest closeness I came too was 60% Scale 75 Ardeness Green, 40% Caspian Blue. It was a close match, but not exact.

 

I really wish there was an off shelf for the Sons of Horus green, and I'm sorry that I never found it. For me and for you. However, the Vallejo bottles are droppers, making the mix simple and quick. The FW original paint scheme list marks Nurgling Green, Castellan Green, Dawnstone, and Sotek Green; but this combination didn't turn out at all the same color.

 

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions.

[Ranulf]

 

Lupercal Green =

Incubi Darkness, or Scurvy Green Vallejo Model Color. (Incubi Darkness is a little more blue, but Scurvy Green is a 99% match. Unnoticeable to the eye on my palette. )

 

Sons of Horus Green =

It sounds more complicated on paper. 1/4 Vallejo Basalt Grey, 1/4 Vallejo Green Sky, 1/4 Vallejo Deep Green, and 1/4 Vallejo Model Color Turquoise. Perfect match on my palette after many failures. 

 

 

Cheers for that Bluedoo, I mostly use Vallejo and have all of the above apart from Scurvy Green - I'll chase it down and see how it goes. 

 

+++

 

So I've had a play around with the idea of a Orbital Assault force and came up with the following:

 

++  Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2497pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Praetor, Legion [372pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Paragon Blade, Volkite Charger

+ Master of the Legion

Terminator Command Squad, Legion: Cataphractii Terminator Armour

3 x Space Marine Chosen: Combi-Bolter, Power Fist

Space Marine Chosen: Chainfist, Combi-Bolter

Standard Bearer: Combi-bolter, Power Fist

 

Master of Signal [105pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, On Foot

Consul: Master of Signal

 

+ Elites +

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [305pts]

Contemptor Dreadnought: Dreadnought Drop Pod, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon

 

Veteran Tactical Squad, Legion [285pts]: Drop Pod, Veteran Tactics: Machine Killers

Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist

Veteran Space Marine w/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Meltagun

4 x Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade

4 x Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Combi-weapon: Meltagun

 

Veteran Tactical Squad, Legion [285pts]: Drop Pod, Veteran Tactics: Machine Killers

Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Fist

Veteran Space Marine w/ Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Meltagun

4 x Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword or Combat Blade

4 x Veteran Space Marines: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword or Combat Blade, Combi-weapon: Meltagun

 

+ Troops +

 

Tactical Squad, Legion [215pts]: Drop Pod, 9x Tactical Space Marines.

Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla, Legion

Standard Wargear: Bolters

Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Fist

 

Tactical Squad, Legion [215pts]: Drop Pod, 9x Tactical Space Marines.

Additional Wargear: Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades, Vexilla, Legion

Standard Wargear: Bolters

Tactical Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Power Fist

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Heavy Support Squad, Legion Volkite Culverin [300pts]: Drop Pod, Sergeant, 8x Space Marines, Volkite Culverin

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon [415pts]: Dreadnought Drop Pod

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought: Grav-flux Bombard, Leviathan Siege Claw, Phosphex Discharger, Twin-linked Volkite Caliver, Twin-linked Volkite Caliver

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Legion and Allegiance:   XVI: Sons of Horus, Traitor

 

Rite of War: Orbital Assault

 

+++

 

Now, if i've got this right...

 

Turn one - Seven Drop Pod units means that four (having rounded up) come down first turn - namely; Both Veteran Squads, Leviathan Dread and Heavy Support Squad with MoS attached. 

 

Turn two - Roll to bring in Deep-striking Praetor + Command Squad and remaining two Tactical Squads and Contemptor Dread.

 

I'm still toying with the idea of bringing a Nuncio-Vox for the Veteran Tactical Squads in order to able to pinpoint exactly where the Praetor and Cataphractii land as well as spotting for the MoS Ordnance Barrage if necessary. 

 

+ MoS is an expensive luxury that may not be worth the hefty points cost - although paired with the Volkite Culverin squad it'll be a case of hitting MEQ on 2+, wounding on 2+ and Deflagrate. Rough math tells me that i'm looking at around eight unsaved wounds before the additional Deflagrate automatic hits wounding on 2+ again. 

 

+ Praetor and Cataphractii are headhunters - probably need to get some Digital Lasers in there somehow to give the Praetor a killing edge versus his number on the other side. 

 

+ Veteran Squads are setup to delete whatever is closest to them when they land or hunt armour.

 

+ Dreads are Anti-tank.

 

+ Tactical Squads are a tax / backup assault force to help overwhelm.

 

Not sure on the tabletop effectiveness, but it feels like aggressive list that plays to some of the SoH strengths. 

 

-Ran

[Bluedoo]

Sounds good! I really love Scurvy Green as a color in general. PM me if you need assistance in the future. List looks fun to me, which is always a win in my book.

[Varyn]

Another way to go instead of the kheres contemptor would be a contemptor-cortus dreadnought with close combat weapon, chainfist and 2 grav-guns; very solid load out in a drop pod