Typical Space Marine career path

[Indefragable]

Looking through the Force Organization charts across Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Dark Angels, and Coded: Blood Angels and it got me wondering what the "typical" career path is for an Astartes? Of course that is a loaded question since multiple chapters have multiple rites processes, traditions, etc... not to mention war tends to wreak havoc on nicely linear trajectories.

 

That being said, I am curious where the forks in the road are for certain paths in the life of an Astartes, mainly

 

1. Veterans

2. Commanders

3. Specialists

 

 

0. Basic

I think it's safe to say that this is a pretty standard path for most Marines in most Chapters (proclivities unique to each Chapter excepted, of course)

 

Aspirant > Initiate > Neophyte > Scout  > Devastator Marine > Assault Marine > Tactical Marine

 

 

The terms may very, but this is essentially how I have defined things:

Hidden Content

 

 

Aspirant: "normal" human who is accepted into the various trials/tests of each Chapter

 

Initiate: an Aspirant who has successfully completed the trials/tests and been accepted into the Chapter and enters basic training. Bear in mind that, lore-wise, these dudes are basically the top 10-50 BAMF's on the entire planet at this point, so even though they are early in SM training, they are pretty capable fellas already.

 

Neophyte: this is a "Zero Level" Space Marine: someone who is technically part of the Chapter, but is undergoing the biological upgrades and intense physical/mental/spiritual training necessary to "hack it" as an Astartes

 

Scout: the first stage of an Astartes life where they are deployable into combat, though they may have not yet completed all of the biological/training to make them a full Astartes. Nearly all Chapters (sensibly) require members to taste actual combat of some sort before they go any further.

 

After the Scout companies, SM are then "full" Space Marines in Power armor and such and their career path is more a matter of role and experience than any sort of biological enhancement.

 

 

...but this is where things get a bit muddy for me.

 

1. Veteran Path

Where do Veterans and Sgts of all stripes come from?

 

Tactical Marine > Company Veteran?

Tactical Marine > Sgt > Company Veteran?

Tactical Marine > Company Veteran > Sgt?

Tactical Marine > Vanguard Veteran/Sternguard Veteran > Company Veteran?

Tactical Marine > Assault Sgt > Devastator Sgt > Tactical Sgt?

 

Put another way, are 1st company veterans handpicked from Company Veterans and are Veterans (Company Vets and 1st Company) all former Sgts?

 

Of course there will be as many different iterations and backstories as there are hormagaunts in a hive fleet, but I'm just looking for as "typical" a path as possible.

 

 

2. Command Path:

I think the following part is safe to guess:

 

Lieutenant > Captain > First Captain > Chapter Master*

 

...but where do Lieutenants come from? Does it go:

 

Sgt > LT > Captain?

or

Sgt > Veteran Sgt > LT > Captain?

 

Again, I'm curious how important it is for a Captain or LT to have been a Veteran of some sort first.

 

 

*obviously Chapter Master is a whole other thing where there's rarely a clear cut indicator to this role beyond either First Captain or "last guy left in your Chapter"

 

 

3. Specialist Path:

 

Due to their Warpy-nature, Librarians are picked out pretty early on (even at the Neophyte stage) and have their own supplemental training almost immediately.

 

As for the other "main" Specialists of Chaplains, Apothecaries, and Techmarines, do they all go through the typical ASM > Dev > Tactical Marine path first?

 

 

This is GW we're talking about, and 40k on top of that, so I know things will be muddy before we even get into 1000 different chapters each with their own traditions. What got me thinking is how in most real-world militaries, there are typically (again, that keep that word in mind) Enlisted paths and Officer paths, and then there are sub branches with Specialization vs Command. I.e. in the US Army a rank of E-8 can either be Master Sgt ( a specialist for a particular system, technique, job family, etc...) or a First Sergeant (a command path that is the more stereotypical "barking orders" type of role seen in movies/books/games etc...).

 

Trying to wrap my head around how the Adeptes Astartes do it since there is no West Point for Space Marines, so to speak.

 

 

EDIT: corrected Scout to Tactical path to better reflect Codex chapters

[Kinstryfe]

Your initial path from aspirant to tactical marine is pretty spot on. I think I've read, but can't remember where, that Devastator and Assault Sergeants are basically drawn from tactical marines with a particular gift for those talents. There are also some ambiguities with veterancy, since veterans are basically sergeants in profile, as to where they fall in the command structure, but I think they're often sort of extra Marines when company veterans, and not necessarily part of the formal command. So the 4th company would have 6 Tactical Squads, 2 Assault Squads, 2 Devastator Squads, a Captain, 2 Lieutenants, and a variable number of veterans to act as command staff and other positions. Presumably they're 1st company ready, but either without positions open in the 1st company or sticking around for other reasons. So, I don't think that they are necessarily acting Sergeants, but being a veteran probably necessitates having acted as a Sergeant or at least combat squad leader somewhere along the way. Ever been in a job where everyone says you're too good but there just aren't any open positions to apply for at the moment? Those are your veterans.

 

Captains are depicted as almost always having a secondary set of chapter responsibilities, so I don't think it's a cut and dry as the 4th Captain outranks the 6th and so on. While being 1st Captain is almost always a prestigious position, I also don't think it's a shoe in for Chapter Master. The Captain of the 5th is traditionally the Master of Marches, and may have served as such for 175 years with accolades and distinction, and is used to overseeing large scale ground deployments. He may thus be regarded more highly than the 4th Company Captain, Master of the Fleet, who oversees the Chapter's ships but has been a Captain for a scant decade. If an opening comes up for Chapter Master, the Captain of the 5th would likely trump the Captain of the 4th, even though for ceremonial purposes he would be "outranked". I think there was some fluff about this and the Ultramarines, with Sicarus being especially disliked by the Captain of the 1st Company because he was considered a favorite to succeed Calgar as Chapter Master.

 

And specialists. I'm pretty sure aspirants with talents for a specialist role are trained as normal, but will receive appropriate training in advance to prepare them for a specialist role once they show an aptitude for it. If Brother Robert is an ace in every training about equipment maintenance, he'll likely be flagged as a potential techmarine, even if just a lowly scout. Same for those with an aptitude for biology or healing and the Apothecarion. Those skills are always in demand, and any recruit with a natural aptitude for them will likely be earmarked for the position unless they're even more impressive at something else.

[Beta galactosidase]

It most likely is possible to become captain without ever being a captain, or possibly even a tactical marine. Even though everyone is a battle brother, brother sergeant, captain, etc, it doesn't mean they have the same job or require the same experience. 

 

You're right about an E8 grade including two equal ranks, and its good to ask about west point. When someone gets out of west point, ocs, rotc, etc, what is the path to becoming a colonel? It's not just a question of putting time in and being good enough. They have to have the right assignments to get the relevant experience to be promoted. The assignment they have and the unit they go to make a big difference, a lieutenant has very different career prospects depending on, three years in, if they have been in a staff attache assignment, in an elite combat unit, or in a less distinguished unit. If a marine has the chops to become an officer at some point, its very possible that within a very short time, while they're still in the reserve companies, they'd serve in a company command squad to assist the captain, and/or be promoted to sergeant of a very junior squad. Keep in mind, basic sergeants are essentially another squad member, one who has leadership potential and training.  In-game they have usually had the same profile as a basic marine, and is one of the ten members of the squad, unlike a captain who is not one of the 100 marines in a company. Veteran sergeants are a separate designation in a number of places, and this only makes sense because there are some sergeants who just command a single squad in a large battle, and then there will need to be other sergeants who oversee more complex missions.

 

Then probably more important than that is the assignment progression, marines actually progress between companies from devastator company to assault to tactical, not devastator marine to assault to tactical. Battle company marines have very likely served in all three types of reserve company, including the battle company assault and devastator squads. The jobs a battle company assault squad does are different than a reserve assault squad, they're so integrated with the rest of the company. To work so closely with tactical marines, most battle company assault marines will need to have gone through service in the tactical reserves. 

 

 

Most senior enlisted and officer positions in the  military don't require someone to have a ranger tab. Most special operators are going to be very distinguished as special operators without ever becoming very senior. You even point out that there is a distinction between master sergeant and first sergeant, and at other times in the military there have been other specialist ranks that allowed someone to go up in grade without having much supervisory responsibility.  The space marines definitely have lots of champion, company veteran, and honor guard type of positions.

 

The marines also track their careers very closely. If you need to fill a spot in a battle company assault squad, there are many resources to draw on. Chaplains are a kind of HR officer, and if you're considering bringing in a marine from another company, you have at least two chaplains and two captains involved.  You could pick a marine from another squad in the company, you could pick a marine who has been very senior in the eighth company for sixteen years and never went into the tactical reserves.

[Elzender]

I would say that most promotions in a Chapter are the result of reorganizations that happen during a campaign or after it finishes. Let's say the 3rd Battle company of a chapter has undertaken a campaign with support elements from a tactical reserve company. Two of the 3rd Co tactical squads have suffered casualties, and there are 8 marines left from both units, including one sergeant. The Chapter decides to transfer two tactical squads from the reserve company that has been supporting the 3rd, since they have already been under the command of the 3rd Co Captain, and to avoid separating members from the same squad, since they are used to fight together. The remaining marines from the original tactical squads, having served for several campaigns in the 3rd Co, are promoted to Company veterans. Moreover, one of the reassigned tactical squads has lost the sergeant, so one of the newly promoted veterans, who showed leadership skills during the campaign, is assigned as the sergeant of that squad to test whether he is ready to assume command.

In another campaign, some decades down the line, the captain of the 3rd Company dies in battle, and is substituted by his right hand man, one of the members of his command squad. The sergeant from the Company veterans is promoted to Lieutenant, in order to assist the new Captain while he gets used to his new responsabilities. Maybe the veteran sergeant will still be directing his squad while acting as a Lieutenant, or maybe he appoints one of his subordinates as the new sergeant of the squad.

 

As I see it, Company veterans are usually hardened marines that have survived several campaigns and have been granted access to better equipment. However, sometimes individual marines that stand out may be promoted as to test them and to closely watch them. Company veterans may also serve as a pool to refill officer casualties such as sergeants or even Captains, as they will be familiar with the tactics and fighting style of the company, and will have fought with the marines they will be commanding, allowing a better compatibility.

 

The First company is a bit more undefined. Some marines might be ascended to the First company for exceptional feats, in order to monitorize their potential as a leader/hero. Other members might just possess great martial prowess. Some might just be Company veterans transferred from the Battle companies due to casualties on the First company, or even to make space in the Battle companies because a new wave of scouts has been promoted to battle brothers, causing multiple organizational changes and promotions. Generally, the First company is just a selection of the best marines in the Chapter, and thus it is also an important pool of potential sergeants and Captains for the other companies.

 

I see Lieutenants as a bit of an ad hoc position, usually when a Company has to deploy in two or more positions, and a sergeant or a command squad member is assigned command of one of the combat groups. Obviously, some Chapters might have dedicated Lieutenants, or one of the Company sergeants might hold the title as the second highest ranking officer and he always acts as the commander of the company/combat group in the abscence of the Captain.

 

About sternguard/vanguard veteran squads I am not so sure, but if I recall correctly they are usually First company veterans that specialize in a specific combat style. I guess they could also be Company Veterans, depending on the chapter.

 

Regarding techmarines/apothecaries, as far as I know they start receiving additional training as soon as they show an affinity for machinery/weaponsmith or medical assistance/biology, and will be promoted when they reach the adequate proficiency or if there is a casualty in their corresponding field.

 

I think either Azrael or Belial are pretty good examples of marine progression, as I think one of them progressed through different officer positions, including in the First Company (I may be mixing both of them, as their progression kinda overlaps).

[shandwen]

In what I've seen from the newest addition to the fluff, lt's might very well have replaced command squads in the organization. So it might go tactical->veteran->sergeant (Sgt and vet interchangeable)->lt->captain

[Kinstryfe]

Aptitude and particular skills probably play a great deal into it too. Brother Ephesius may be an absolute monster in combat, but never reach the 1st company because he's significantly below average at operating in Tactical Dreadnaught Armour, and so will never progress beyond a company veteran for practical reasons. Brother Michaelian may take to TDA like he was born to it on his first attempt, and may be fast tracked to the 1st company simply because he's a more valuable commodity there than being a competent but average tactical squad member, so may not even be a veteran by most conventional standards.

 

I imagine that Astartes are nothing if not pragmatic, and seek to place each brother in the position where he is most effective. Thus you may have brilliant commanders who are average combatants who advance no further than company command squads, Assault Marines that are subpar shots who never progress past the reserve companies, and likewise the odd Ultramarine who rides a bike like a White Scar and simply stays in the reserve companies because it's what he does best, and a few really sneaky Astartes who return to the scout company once they're fully trained because they can hide like it's nobody's business. Granted, being there worst shot or combatant in an Astartes chapter is still being leaps and bounds above your average Guardsmen, but I'd imagine that having at the most 10-20 men under your direct command means that they'll know their brothers' talents inside and out.

[Dracos]

Lieutenants are typically young officers. It is unusual for an enlisted non-comm to be promoted into the officer corp. Not saying it hasn’t happened or that in our sci-fi setting it might be prevalent, but it feels wrong. Most non-comms prefer their duties and don’t want the responsibilities of a commissioned officer

 

In my opinion

 

Lieutenants Are younger Astartes who have been evaluated as having not only potential leadership ability but also the acumen to lead on a more strategic level while Sgts and Vet Sgts (ie Master Chief/Sergeants) are better suited to lead at the tactical level. IMO :)

[Felix Antipodes]

Lieutenants are typically young officers. It is unusual for an enlisted non-comm to be promoted into the officer corp. Not saying it hasn’t happened or that in our sci-fi setting it might be prevalent, but it feels wrong. Most non-comms prefer their duties and don’t want the responsibilities of a commissioned officer

In my opinion

Lieutenants Are younger Astartes who have been evaluated as having not only potential leadership ability but also the acumen to lead on a more strategic level while Sgts and Vet Sgts (ie Master Chief/Sergeants) are better suited to lead at the tactical level. IMO :)

This is all well and good in a standard, peacetime force, but Chapters operate in a world of continuous warfare. As such there will be a much higher rate of 'battlefield promotions' than contemporary military.

[StraightSilver]

Didn't Uriel Ventris become captain via battlefield promotion?

[The Unseen]

Since most captains die while active on the field, at least temporary promotions to fill the chain of command are probably incredibly common, decided by chapter specific choices.

some may pick the most veteran sergeant to lead until time allows a more nuanced promotion.

Others may have a designated second as their favored successor, or maybe a nearby librarian/chaplain takes over a force till the battle is over, etc.

 

And just a note, the initial progression in most chapters is scout->devestator (boltgun wielders)-> devestator heavy weapon users->assault->tactical->etc.

 

I make that note because the Blood Angels specifically put their recently promoted scouts into the assault squads, as basically a "master the thirst or die" testing ground, and their dev squads are full of more veteran battle brothers who have proven they can control themselves, which the BA codex calls out as one of their divergences to normal chapters.

[StraightSilver]

Since most captains die while active on the field, at least temporary promotions to fill the chain of command are probably incredibly common, decided by chapter specific choices.

some may pick the most veteran sergeant to lead until time allows a more nuanced promotion.

Others may have a designated second as their favored successor, or maybe a nearby librarian/chaplain takes over a force till the battle is over, etc.

 

And just a note, the initial progression in most chapters is scout->devestator (boltgun wielders)-> devestator heavy weapon users->assault->tactical->etc.

 

I make that note because the Blood Angels specifically put their recently promoted scouts into the assault squads, as basically a "master the thirst or die" testing ground, and their dev squads are full of more veteran battle brothers who have proven they can control themselves, which the BA codex calls out as one of their divergences to normal chapters.

Following on from the idea of a designated second the Primaris marines have this.

 

Or at least Ultramarines Primaris do - the red starburst within a squad is to denote the designated second for a sergeant and the gold starburst seen on a lieutenant is to designate a captain "in waiting".

[D3L]

I was under the very strong impression it's only

scout -> Assault Marine -> Devastator -> tactical in Blood angels and their succesors

in other more codex chapters I believe it's 

scout -> reserve company bolter toting devastator-> reserve company heavy toting devastator -> reserve company assault marine -> reserve company tactical marine ->  battle company -> squad of previous proficiency 

[Indefragable]

Good catch on the Devastator > Assault Marine part. Clearly had BA stuck on my mind :)

 

I guess the part that interests me is the "First Sgt vs Master Sgt" type divergence and where it starts...aka are Sgts all Vets and/or are Vets all former Sgts, etc...

 

The way I am sort of wrapping my head around it is that those in the Command path would typically* go Sgt > Lieutenant > Captain > Captain+ (whatever comes after Captain). On the other hand, skilled Astartes with little interest/aptitude for Command become Company Vets and then end up in the 1st Company.

[Elzender]

Another consideration is that chapters do not appear to have a officers academy or training centre, so the promotions are mostly based on natural aptitude shown during the training or in the reserve companies, and the selected marines may just receive specific training and leadership hypnoindoctrination (or maybe they take lessons during the dreaded "free time" hour that some chapters have ). Maybe in some chapters full scout units are ascended to battle brothers at once, and the one scout with more leadership aptitudes is designed as the squad sergeant and given further training. Some chapters might already have some veterans assigned as sergeants in the reserve companies, and they command the newly ascended marines while monitorizing their potential (a bit like Telion in the Ultramarine's 10th company).

 

I would say there is no completely described process, and it varies greatly from one chapter to another. Moreover, most examples in the lore or the BL novels show marines being  ascended due to impressive deeds and/or their superior officer dying, and most senior officers are just there due to decades/centuries of experience or are great heroes from famed battles.

[Colonel Bindoff]

 

 

I would say there is no completely described process, and it varies greatly from one chapter to another. Moreover, most examples in the lore or the BL novels show marines being ascended due to impressive deeds and/or their superior officer dying, and most senior officers are just there due to decades/centuries of experience or are great heroes from famed battles.

I think this pretty much sums up what is known.

 

Progression from scout to tactical marine is well known and although I don’t recall the source for starting in reserve companies then moving to battle companies this makes some sense.

 

The problem with equating Astartes promotion through the ranks to modern military is one of timespans. If they live as long as the fluff says (not say as long as they do in close combat with berserkers) then ranks will be occupied; veteran squads look likely to form a ‘pool’ of potential future sergeants, lieutenants etc.

The specialists are outside this; it takes a special level of zeal to become a chaplain after all.

 

I think it helps to remember that Astartes are not human infantry; they are warrior monks and therefore likely organise their promotions according to concensus, obvious talent shining through, and the patronage of superiors that they have impressed in battle.

[Kinstryfe]

 

Since most captains die while active on the field, at least temporary promotions to fill the chain of command are probably incredibly common, decided by chapter specific choices.

some may pick the most veteran sergeant to lead until time allows a more nuanced promotion.

Others may have a designated second as their favored successor, or maybe a nearby librarian/chaplain takes over a force till the battle is over, etc.

And just a note, the initial progression in most chapters is scout->devestator (boltgun wielders)-> devestator heavy weapon users->assault->tactical->etc.

I make that note because the Blood Angels specifically put their recently promoted scouts into the assault squads, as basically a "master the thirst or die" testing ground, and their dev squads are full of more veteran battle brothers who have proven they can control themselves, which the BA codex calls out as one of their divergences to normal chapters.

 

Following on from the idea of a designated second the Primaris marines have this.

Or at least Ultramarines Primaris do - the red starburst within a squad is to denote the designated second for a sergeant and the gold starburst seen on a lieutenant is to designate a captain "in waiting".

That's actually quite an old bit of fluff for the Codex Astartes. The Iron Halo (red star) denotes the second in command, who would be leader in the event the squad splits into two combat squads. Your typical tactical squad will therefore have 1 Sergeant, 1 Squad Leader, 1 Special Weapon Specialist, 1 Heavy Weapon Specialist, and 6 Tactical Marines.

 

The chain of command must be missing a whole bunch of relativistic ranks or grading systems. Take a typical pre-Primaris Chapter. At the minimum, at full strength, with a full compliment of Tactical Dreadnaught Armour, a Codex Compliant Chapter will have:

 

1 Chapter Master

10 Company Captains

20 Company Lieutenants

10+ Chaplains

110 Sergeants

80 Squad Leaders

 

So 231 out of 1043 Astartes (22%) are, if not officers, in some sort of command role within a chapter. Having only a few ranks sounds like arguments could get really messy, especially if veterans retain any rank they may have earned previously.

[D3L]

 

 

Since most captains die while active on the field, at least temporary promotions to fill the chain of command are probably incredibly common, decided by chapter specific choices.

some may pick the most veteran sergeant to lead until time allows a more nuanced promotion.

Others may have a designated second as their favored successor, or maybe a nearby librarian/chaplain takes over a force till the battle is over, etc.

And just a note, the initial progression in most chapters is scout->devestator (boltgun wielders)-> devestator heavy weapon users->assault->tactical->etc.

I make that note because the Blood Angels specifically put their recently promoted scouts into the assault squads, as basically a "master the thirst or die" testing ground, and their dev squads are full of more veteran battle brothers who have proven they can control themselves, which the BA codex calls out as one of their divergences to normal chapters.

Following on from the idea of a designated second the Primaris marines have this.

Or at least Ultramarines Primaris do - the red starburst within a squad is to denote the designated second for a sergeant and the gold starburst seen on a lieutenant is to designate a captain "in waiting".

That's actually quite an old bit of fluff for the Codex Astartes. The Iron Halo (red star) denotes the second in command, who would be leader in the event the squad splits into two combat squads. Your typical tactical squad will therefore have 1 Sergeant, 1 Squad Leader, 1 Special Weapon Specialist, 1 Heavy Weapon Specialist, and 6 Tactical Marines.

 

The chain of command must be missing a whole bunch of relativistic ranks or grading systems. Take a typical pre-Primaris Chapter. At the minimum, at full strength, with a full compliment of Tactical Dreadnaught Armour, a Codex Compliant Chapter will have:

 

1 Chapter Master

10 Company Captains

20 Company Lieutenants

10+ Chaplains

110 Sergeants

80 Squad Leaders

 

So 231 out of 1043 Astartes (22%) are, if not officers, in some sort of command role within a chapter. Having only a few ranks sounds like arguments could get really messy, especially if veterans retain any rank they may have earned previously.

 

it doesnt have to get messy

 

it could be as simple as the roman legion format, seniority amongst equivalent ranks is denoted by numerical position, so 

 

V Coy-4th squad sergeant is above V Coy-5th squad sergeant, while III Coy-6th squad sergeant outranks them both

 

first squad, 1st coy is the most senior sergeant in the chapter

 

numerical seniority, KISS

[Beta galactosidase]

The chain of command must be missing a whole bunch of relativistic ranks or grading systems.

...

1 Chapter Master

10 Company Captains

20 Company Lieutenants

10+ Chaplains

110 Sergeants

80 Squad Leaders

 

The third edition codex also shows, in addition to the ten normal sergeants in a company’s squads, five veteran sergeants per company. There weren’t any lieutenants at the time, so one of these must be designated first in succession.

 

[wuote]the Iron Halo (red star) denotes the second in command, who would be leader in the event the squad splits into two combat squads.

It may be possible sometimes that a squad veteran, another name for squad leader, is a man re experienced marine than the sergeant. This may also not be necessary because for space marines being a veteran seems like more of a personality trait than an indicator of experience.

[SickSix]

I don't think all Veterans have to be Sergeants. If I am promoted to Captain and I know some good marines that I have fought with before, I may pull them into my company vet/command squad regardless of them being a sergeant or not. Maybe Bob is just the best damn plasma gunner in the company and Steve is a helluva beast with a chain sword and I want to award him a power sword and have him watch my back.

 

As far as succession, the Silver Skulls short stories and second novel clearly demonstrate how their line of succession works. Gileas Urten was the most veteran sergeant of his company and was chosen by the company to lead them after the death of their Captain. But, that was only temporary until the Chapter leadership approved of a new Captain. As fate would play out, the Prognosticators decdided Urten wasn't ready and picked a different guy to captain the 8th company. Urten and his team did a stint with the 1st company only to end up back in the 8th.