Knight Household Army, Thoughts?

[ProsperoStands]

Greetings fellow Heresy fans!

 

I am parting with my 15th Legion force for not an insignificant sum in order to make room for my next project. I am moving onto Warhound Titan ownership but I have been considering adding a few Knights to my collection of two. With that said, what are peoples experiences with pure Knight armies in 30k? Are they considered broken, unfair or OP at all?

 

Thank you.

[1ncarnadine]

They're definitely considered all of the above. It can be very challenging to play against mono Knights in 30k, at least for Legions. The issue is mostly that you're presenting your opponent with a mono-vehicle force. The Armoured Breakthrough mass-tank rite can be just as tricky.

 

Don't let that stop you, though! If it's an idea that has you inspired, run with it and do what you want. You can still achieve good games through house rules. If your opponent doesn't have enough anti-vehicle weaponry, then it might be a good idea to propose scenarios that work heavily in your opponent's favor, inflate the points costs of your units, or just allow your opponents to run more points in their army than yourself.

It can be tough to run in tournaments and campaigns, but your event organizers will hopefully pit you against armies that stand a better chance, and will also often set up balancing house rules akin to the ideas I've mentioned.

[Dreagher]

I would definitely talk to your opponent before the game and let him know to take a few more anti-tank weapons than usual.

[carlisimo]

I think it makes it difficult to have a close game. You’ll often win big or lose big, and it usually won’t be a surprise after seeing what your opponent has.

[Noserenda]

It depends a lot on your meta tbh, ours is a lot of land raiders so knights come across without too many problems usually but then ive fielded infantry heavy lists that just had to stand on objectives and try not to die...

Knights aaaare cool model though!

[Elzender]

Hummm, about the balancing issues for unprepared lists, I was thinking that maybe some weapon enplacements in terrain pieces scattered across the battlefield could be a way to provide infantty units that would normally be unable to hurt knights with the means to do it (ie: an icarus lascannon battery on the roof of a ruines building so that a tactical squad can man it against the knights).

[Hesh Kadesh]

Just wait until Adeptus Titanicus is released. You'll likely have more people to play against you with Battletech-lite, rather than sinking a bucket load of pounds into a bunch of units which entirely invalidate any anti infantry, and anti-air in an opponents army, making your opponent face you with probably 40% less points than you do, or rosm going up against a list dedicsted to shonking knights, invalidating them.

 

All Knights aren't fun. A pair of Knights taken as allies aren't bad (especially if you prevent yourself from taking the - 35pt cost troop Rank).

[Spiritual Liege]

Just wait until Adeptus Titanicus is released. You'll likely have more people to play against you with Battletech-lite, rather than sinking a bucket load of pounds into a bunch of units which entirely invalidate any anti infantry, and anti-air in an opponents army, making your opponent face you with probably 40% less points than you do, or rosm going up against a list dedicsted to shonking knights, invalidating them.

 

But big robots are cooler than small robots. Adeptus Titanicus looks nice, but there's just something about having an army of Knights in the 28mm scale.

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

 

Just wait until Adeptus Titanicus is released. You'll likely have more people to play against you with Battletech-lite, rather than sinking a bucket load of pounds into a bunch of units which entirely invalidate any anti infantry, and anti-air in an opponents army, making your opponent face you with probably 40% less points than you do, or rosm going up against a list dedicsted to shonking knights, invalidating them.

 

But big robots are cooler than small robots. Adeptus Titanicus looks nice, but there's just something about having an army of Knights in the 28mm scale.

If you can get someone to play you as their army is rendered around 60% pointless, and/or don't mind consistently getting battered by armies designed with Countering them in particular.

 

Balanced armies are far more fun than repeatedly VSing all high AV, all MC, or all Flyer armies.

 

What is the point in having an army that never gets played?

[Lord Blackwood]

I disagree. 

<rest of post deleted> 

[Hesh Kadesh]

I disagree. 

 

<rest of post deleted> 

You're entitled to be wrong, but I'm curious as to why that is ;)

[mechadryad]

 

I disagree. 

 

<rest of post deleted> 

You're entitled to be wrong, but I'm curious as to why that is

 

I believe he redacted his opinion because from your opinion shown in this thread and others there seems to be no point.

 

You come across as hating the fact that knights even exist. Your response the Lord Blackwood doesn't help you look any more reasonable

[Hesh Kadesh]

Well you seem to have a fun personality. Lighten up bru.

 

Most armies:

- Mix infantry, mix flyers, mix tanks

 

Knights

- immune to most anti infantry firepower, immune to most anti flyer gear, more HP and excellent resistance against many AT weapons.

 

Imagine I have a 2.4K army built to take all comers. Lets make it dead easy, and call it a 33% split between AT, AI, and AA. Against knights, 66% of units can't do anything using that make up, leaving only 33% useful.

 

If you think that 800pts of Anti tank without tailoring specifically to hulk out Knights can take down 2400pts of knights, I'm gonna have to laugh at you.

 

My typical 2400pt list is based around ten 1st turn Haywire Blasts and a trio of medusa, and even that struggles to take on a pure Knight household list. Any more and I began to lack oomph elsewhere depending on the build. My other 1400pts are full of anti infantry chewers, and objective holders. Those 1400pts have to twiddle thumbs and hope that the enemy rolls badly enough that they stay alive until the end of the game.

 

However, if I know that I am facing a list which is mono-knights, then rather than taking any sort of useless unit, I'll take units who might be able to do something.

 

The strength of a Knight list comes only from the fact that is a counter meta pick. However its own counterplay is overcentralizing and bad for the game: i.e, not being able to leave home without needing to take 2400pts of Anti Knight Firepower.

 

Hence the only way the Knights are useable is if you have an opponent who is not only happy having any all comers army list have their none-anti tank units invalid, but also, you've got to be happy if they turn around, roll out an entire army worth of heavy anti tank to take out the Knights.

 

Wanna know what a decent go between? Using then as an allied list. Exactly as I suggested, and exactly as they were used in the majority of conflicts in the heresy. Alternatively the army is a set of paperweights, or a vanity project, in which case knock yourself out.

 

If you just want to play with knights and/or titans, you could wait until the Adeptus Titanicus game is released, because then you'll not only be playing with knights or titans, but you'll be able to do so in a way that you won't be invalidating someone elses collection, or be gimped by FW's inability to write rules properly.

 

But hey, yeah, come actually try and discourse and tell me where I'm wrong, and how my experiences playing with and against Knights are seemingly incorrect.

 

Because I distinctly remember the number of times of saying to my opponents 'hey sucks that your 60 Bolter Armed Marines can't do anything, by the way I' m just gonna use my Sweep Attack/3 Shot S6 AP3 Large Blast weapon and remove 14 models, and then do it another 4 times this turn against the models that can actually do something against me'.

 

You're correct. I hate that Knights exist as a Primary Detachment Army. As a Lord of War only, or taxed behind having to buy 2 as an allied list, sure. But as a Primary Detachment in a fun, balanced game? Nah.

[ProsperoStands]

Thank you for the feed back on this folks!

I am looking at expanding my Luna Wolves a bit more as an all Knight army does seem a tad OP based on reading their rules and just overall reaction from some opnion polls I have done in my group as well as on line haha.

Leaning towards picking up one more knight and then putting together an Armored Spear head.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Thank you for the feed back on this folks!

I am looking at expanding my Luna Wolves a bit more as an all Knight army does seem a tad OP based on reading their rules and just overall reaction from some opnion polls I have done in my group as well as on line haha.

 

Leaning towards picking up one more knight and then putting together an Armored Spear head.

What is it abiut the Armoured Spearhead that appeals to you where a Super Heavy, 3x3 Squadrons of Predators, a half dozen or more Rhino borne Tac Squads, and up to 4 Land Raider Terminator Squads can't provide.

 

All of the stuff that applies to a Knights only also applies to Armoured Spearhead, and you can play AS without beeding to run an actual Armoured Spearhead, and the Dreadnought Rite of War. No need to ever run a list solely made of 75pt AV13 Scoring Tank hulls as anything more than a gimmick list.

 

Don't be a douche, or give your opponents a heads up that you want to play a list the invalidates a standard list. If you're okay having your opponents use count as to run as much AT as possible and counter pick to your list, then go for it.

[ProsperoStands]

Honestly A few dedicated transport Land raiders would not be out of place. I rather like having multiple RoW at my disposal. I have four rhinos wo realisticly it would be 3 or 4 land raiders full of vets and tacs in Rhinos. Maybe a spartan for big games.

[Spiritual Liege]

He mistook Armoured Spearhead for Armoured Breakthrough.

[Hesh Kadesh]

My bad. The similarity in its name is enough of a reason to ignore Breakthrough ever happened. And Spearhead (Land raider transports and +1 to Ram, ooh goody) is that crap it might as well not exist.

 

Roll on HH 2nd Ed.

[Beren]

Wanna know what a decent go between? Using then as an allied list. Exactly as I suggested, and exactly as they were used in the majority of conflicts in the heresy.

I don't know much about rules, but I will contest this particular point. Although Knight houses were allies in the sense that they fought on the same battlefields and in the same campaigns as other imperial forces (just like said Imperials themselves) they often appear to have been fielded in independent groupings and they certainly weren't universally parceled out as pairs or individuals to small sections of other armies.

[Spiritual Liege]

 

Wanna know what a decent go between? Using then as an allied list. Exactly as I suggested, and exactly as they were used in the majority of conflicts in the heresy.

I don't know much about rules, but I will contest this particular point. Although Knight houses were allies in the sense that they fought on the same battlefields and in the same campaigns as other imperial forces (just like said Imperials themselves) they often appear to have been fielded in independent groupings and they certainly weren't universally parceled out as pairs or individuals to small sections of other armies.

 

But the battles on the tabletop are not a 100% accurate representation of the battles in the universe. The scale is completely different, and a 3000pt game on the tabletop could represent thousands of Marines fighting in the universe. Thus, a Knight or two allied to a 2000pt Legion strike force could be a whole detachment of Knights fighting alongside a complete Legion company in the universe.

[Beren]

This is my personal perspective, but that doesn't make muchsense for me. I always just saw games as representing snapshots and turning points of larger battles. Or maybe I'm taking ten tacs actually equals a hundred tacs too literally.