Will Slaanesh get an update like other gods?

[Panzer]

*Doomrider

 

Yeah I'd love that. Doomrider > Fulgrim and Lucius. :D

[Kite Senet]

Personally, I could almost imagine the new Sisters of Slaughter, Melusai Blood Sisters, and/or Khinerai Heartrenders models immigrating to 40k as some Slaaneshi "disposable" forces to reinforce the Emperor's Children. While it has some cross-universe dissonance, the models could be painted to fit quite well, and disregarding their AoS fluff, it makes about as much sense as the Thousand Sons being buddy-buddy with our bird-goats. A lot of that is, however, because I really get the impression that GW is trying to push AoS immigrants into 40k armies in a desperate attempt to awaken AoS from its coma--after all, what's your excuse as a 40k player not to get into AoS also if you already have the majority of a Daughters of Khaine or Tzaangor army?

[Panzer]

Nah, that's extremely unlikely.

I know people like to say GW is lazy but that would be too much no matter how lazy they might be. That's like expecting Stormcast to immigrate to 40k as Custodes. I also disagree that it'd be similar to the Tzaangor thing. That one makes a LOT more sense.

There's literally zero overlapping between AoS and 40k models apart from Daemons and Tzaangors (who could be just as well half-daemons if they had the daemon keyword). AoS also doesn't need any reawakening like that. The new edition and GW fleshing out the fluff is already doing plenty in that regard. However this is the wrong forum to talk about that.

[Kite Senet]

Were Tzaangors an active part of the 40k lore before the Tzaangor release for the Thousand Sons? I was under the impression that Gors in general were just distant, probably retconned Rogue Trader era background fluff at the time that the Tzaangors were released. I wouldn't be surprised to hear if exactly that same argument was leveled against the possibility of Tzaangors too.

 

It would indeed be lazy, but that also is my impression of the Tzaangors, so to me it does not seem unusual for GW.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Not a chance for the Melusai, they are pathetically obvious as "elves" and I can't really see them being shoehorned into 40k as part of the EC faction, Tzaangors porting over was the "oh finally, why didn't they just do that to begin with?" because it was painfully obvious that they *should* have been in both from release day. 

 

Those Tzaangor models when FIRST previewed made me go "what the heck? why arent they in Wrath of Magnus???!?!?"  The only thing I was shocked with when looking at the 1k sons codex release for 8th was the Mutalith, that's basically it, as it was unexpected. (neat addition to be fair, as its basically a gigantic spawn) 

 

I think that what I said earlier will be the direction they go, Death guard got the "special" treatment (if your into all the snap fit stuff) because they are in the starter set, so they got tons of extra little releases, most of which are 100% superfluous to have tinier kits with a unit or so in them, or as gateway for starter kits (the "know no fear" starter kit as an example, just a scaled down dark imperium) 

 

From my perspective at least the list I gave earlier makes absolute sense. Could GW "Cheap out" and drop Noise marines, Fulgrim, Lucius, and thats it? I mean they *could* but I personally don't see it happening.... we have 2 legions fully fleshed out as playable factions...... I don't see them skipping WE or EC having something similar, especially with a fair bit of money on the table to be made from Legion fans (Which I assume MOST chaos players are)

[Panzer]

Were Tzaangors an active part of the 40k lore before the Tzaangor release for the Thousand Sons? I was under the impression that Gors in general were just distant, probably retconned Rogue Trader era background fluff at the time that the Tzaangors were released. I wouldn't be surprised to hear if exactly that same argument was leveled against the possibility of Tzaangors too.

 

It would indeed be lazy, but that also is my impression of the Tzaangors, so to me it does not seem unusual for GW.

 

Gors were part of some old fluff, yes. However TSons and AoS got the Tzaangor models at the same time, just that AoS got more while TSons had to wait for their 8e Codex to get access to all the Tzaangor units that got released when TSons got their 7e Codex.

[Kite Senet]

I am aware.

 

My opinion is, however, that goatmen categorically feel shoe'd into an army based around soulless automata and sorcery, regardless of the original release date and army availability of the models on offer. And this would be very much akin to them shoeing Daughters of Khaine models in as Emperor's Children models; except I would argue that a harem of scantily clad elves would, in actuality, fit much better in an army revolving around a god of sensuality with deep connections to Elves In Space, than do a horde of pesky chattering goats in an army themed around occult scholarship.

 

Mind you it would be a major development if Fulgrim were able to convince Slaanesh to not immediately eat an Eldar's soul, and for the EC to find, enslave, brainwash and/or seduce enough Eldar to make it a force with any numbers, but you would expect some major developments to occur with the return of a Daemon Primarch anyway. Nonetheless it is unlikely, but it is the only plausible way I currently see a specialized Emperor's Children codex being released within the lifespan of 8th edition. 9-12 brand new specialized EC kits is, in my opinion, essentially a pipe dream.

[Panzer]

Yeah no I disagree completely.

It's neither similar from a fluff point of view nor from a AoS to 40k model transfer or whatever point of view. Daughters of Khaine are their own thing and 100% AoS in fluff as well as in models. Tzaangors existed in 40k before and didn't get introduced as AoS army and later to 40k, they got introduced as AoS and as 40k models at the same time.

 

I feel you're trying to desperately find arguments supporting your idea which simply aren't there.

[Panzer]

Also what do you mean with "within the lifespan of 8th edition". 8th edition isn't going anywhere anytime soon. GW deliberately designed 8th edition in a way so they can keep adding and adjusting stuff without having to release a whole new edition. Better expect for 8th edition to stick around for a while and perhaps even seeing some factions getting more than one Codex within its lifespan.

[Kite Senet]

So, you legitimately are of the opinion that it actually makes sense for illiterate, squabbling goatmen of all things to take up residence in an army of soulless automatons based around sorcery and occult knowledge? I can understand disagreeing about the Daughters of Khaine, but actually defending Codex: Tzaangors as a legitimate embodiment of the 15th Legion? If so, then more power to you, I suppose.

 

Frankly, the AoS fluff is irrelevant. We're putting some plastic sprues in a new box, not transporting Morathi's forces through a hole in spacetime into the 40k universe. And I personally wouldn't be surprised if GW did just that and put some plastic sprues in a new box and wrote a bit of fluff in a new book to jam it into another army, because that's exactly what they did with the Tzaangors when they released Wrath of Magnus.

 

And I'm not even saying this is optimal. It would suck to have Codex: Emperor's Children turn out to be Codex: not-Daughters-of-Khaine just as much as it sucked for us to discover Codex: Thousand Sons was Codex: Tzaangors. It may not even be probable that GW would port the Daughters over to 40k at all. What I am saying is that the only way I can see any incarnation of Codex: Emperor's Children hitting the shelves within the next 3-7 years (i.e. within 8th edition's lifespan) is with some sort of AoS model migration, and the Daughters of Khaine are simply the flashy, new, (very) vaguely Slaaneshi models that I could personally see making up that codex's AoS port lineup. But, more than anything, don't bet on getting a wave of 17 brand new kits comparable to the Death Guard. Let's at least be realistic here and admit to ourselves that the Death Guard indeed have been receiving special treatment above and beyond what any other (non-Primaris) army can reasonably expect to receive.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Personally, I could almost imagine the new Sisters of Slaughter, Melusai Blood Sisters, and/or Khinerai Heartrenders models immigrating to 40k as some Slaaneshi "disposable" forces to reinforce the Emperor's Children. While it has some cross-universe dissonance, the models could be painted to fit quite well, and disregarding their AoS fluff, it makes about as much sense as the Thousand Sons being buddy-buddy with our bird-goats. A lot of that is, however, because I really get the impression that GW is trying to push AoS immigrants into 40k armies in a desperate attempt to awaken AoS from its coma--after all, what's your excuse as a 40k player not to get into AoS also if you already have the majority of a Daughters of Khaine or Tzaangor army?

 

You... get the impression that GW is trying to push AoS "immigrants" in a "desperate attempt to awaken AoS from its coma"... based on a single kit that has existed in the fluff previously? Dude, your anti-AoS bias is showing extremely heavily.

Tzaangors were definitely a thing back in the old Realm of Chaos days, with the Planet of Sorcerors being heavily populated by them, and the Thousand Sons using them as slave labour and cannon fodder. Let's also not forget that people have no issues including illiterate, squabbling human cultists within a Thousand Sons army, so why should this be particularly any different?

 

If there are any AoS crossovers, they'll be with the AoS Slaanesh release that will happen around the same time that the 40k one occurs, exactly like what occurred with the Tzeentch and Nurgle releases. There has been absolutely no evidence of cross-faction units between the two systems, so saying "GW using the same Tzeentch unit that has existed in both 40k and Fantasy in the background for decades is absolute proof that they'll release Elf models as Emperors Children because AoS is dying!" is, well, a little weird.

If anything, I could see them introducing Slaangor, the same way there's been references to the old Pestigor, I believe. Bring back all the old mutant models. Loyalists get a jillion different codexes for every other Chapter that exists, Chaos can have all the weird and wonderful stuff that's been forgotten in favour of focusing purely on Chaos Marines.

 

EDIT: To put it another way, I am legitimately of the opinion that the 15th Legion, manipulators that they are, are capable of recognising that they are one of the smallest Legions in terms of numbers, and that their fluff has always stated that their new home planet, the Planet of Sorcerors, is populated by beastmen (also known as Tzaangors). Said manipulators would be capable of looking upon these teeming, unwashed masses that they care nothing for, then at their valued Rubric Marines, then back at the braying hordes, and making a rational decision about which one they'd prefer getting shot.

 

Just because the Chaos codices have pushed a theme of "All Astartes, All The Time" doesn't change that these things have existed in the background for decades, and that I'm personally glad that they're getting expanded upon rather than just being a single unit of "cultists". Sure, the Thousand Sons themselves are scholars and sorcerors, whereas the Tzaangors are not, but neither are the Chaos Spawn, which people have no issue with.

 

Is it a shame that the current state of the game make the Tzaangors more useful than they were perhaps intended? Yes. However, that's not an issue unique to the Tzaangors themselves, and definitely not something that GW were intending to push. Marines in general are in a bad place right now, across the board. Just look at the number of people saying Loyalists should take Scouts over Tacticals. Just look at the massive thread in Amicus Aedes about whether Marines are the wrong baseline, or what changes need to be made to make them worthwhile. All marines are oddly priced, with cheap horde-style infantry being "worth" more. Blaming this on GW trying to "force AoS into 40k" makes no sense, unless Scouts are being moved into being Stormcast units at the same time, given that they're a far more common unit, being taken more often in far more armies than just the Thousand Sons, who aren't exactly the most popular army out there.

 

So if you want to peddle conspiracy theories, please come up with something far better than something that's explained by a far wider meta shift as part of the teething problems of the new edition, fueled only by your dislike of AoS, and that even taken at face value lacks evidence of a wider trend.

[Panzer]

So, you legitimately are of the opinion that it actually makes sense for illiterate, squabbling goatmen of all things to take up residence in an army of soulless automatons based around sorcery and occult knowledge? I can understand disagreeing about the Daughters of Khaine, but actually defending Codex: Tzaangors as a legitimate embodiment of the 15th Legion? If so, then more power to you, I suppose.

 

Frankly, the AoS fluff is irrelevant. We're putting some plastic sprues in a new box, not transporting Morathi's forces through a hole in spacetime into the 40k universe. And I personally wouldn't be surprised if GW did just that and put some plastic sprues in a new box and wrote a bit of fluff in a new book to jam it into another army, because that's exactly what they did with the Tzaangors when they released Wrath of Magnus.

 

And I'm not even saying this is optimal. It would suck to have Codex: Emperor's Children turn out to be Codex: not-Daughters-of-Khaine just as much as it sucked for us to discover Codex: Thousand Sons was Codex: Tzaangors. It may not even be probable that GW would port the Daughters over to 40k at all. What I am saying is that the only way I can see any incarnation of Codex: Emperor's Children hitting the shelves within the next 3-7 years (i.e. within 8th edition's lifespan) is with some sort of AoS model migration, and the Daughters of Khaine are simply the flashy, new, (very) vaguely Slaaneshi models that I could personally see making up that codex's AoS port lineup. But, more than anything, don't bet on getting a wave of 17 brand new kits comparable to the Death Guard. Let's at least be realistic here and admit to ourselves that the Death Guard indeed have been receiving special treatment above and beyond what any other (non-Primaris) army can reasonably expect to receive.

 

Oh wow NOW I see where you're coming from. You seem to be one of those people who are upset that Tzaangors are a bit more competetive than Marines and can't seem to understand that the 8e TSons Codes is NOT Codex: Legion Thousand Sons. Codex: Thousand Sons is more than just the Legion just like Codex: CSM is more than just the Marines. It seems pretty hard to accept that Tzaangors, the original residents of the Planet of Sorcerers, the half bird half man guys, the ones who got used as slaves by the TSons thousands of years ago, now follow those very TSons and the god of sorcerers who has literally bird daemons under his command. Yeah, totally farfetched and ridiculous ... not.

Also calling it Codex Tzaangors just because 8th edition favours hordes over Marines is just laughable. There are literally just 3 Tzaangor units and 7+ Marine units in the codex.

 

And why should it be so impossible for GW to release a whole EC range without using existing models within the next 3-7 years? You might have missed it but GW is constantly producing and releasing new models currently. Last year DG and Nurgle Daemons and Primaris, this year more Imperial Knights, Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin and this/next month Nighthaunt + another Stormcast subfaction.

 

So far I haven't seen even just one proper argument to support your idea and all I've seen is some weird anti-AoS and anti-Tzaangor bias.

[Kinstryfe]

Given that the AoS fluff is marching slowly toward the return of Slaanesh, I think it's quite likely that there will be an AoS Slaanesh release at some point. If there is to be a special cultist level unit for Emperor's Children, my guess is it will likely be a new kit for a new unit that can be used in both systems. Who knows if it'll be Slaangors, drug fueled berserker slaves, or whatever, but I doubt they'll reuse the Daughters of Khaine in that role. Given old fluff that Khaine is an aspect of Khorne, there's a stronger argument to be made that they would end up in a World Eaters codex, and I think that just has a very low chance of happening.

[Sonoftherubric21]

So, you legitimately are of the opinion that it actually makes sense for illiterate, squabbling goatmen of all things to take up residence in an army of soulless automatons based around sorcery and occult knowledge? I can understand disagreeing about the Daughters of Khaine, but actually defending Codex: Tzaangors as a legitimate embodiment of the 15th Legion? If so, then more power to you, I suppose.

 

Frankly, the AoS fluff is irrelevant. We're putting some plastic sprues in a new box, not transporting Morathi's forces through a hole in spacetime into the 40k universe. And I personally wouldn't be surprised if GW did just that and put some plastic sprues in a new box and wrote a bit of fluff in a new book to jam it into another army, because that's exactly what they did with the Tzaangors when they released Wrath of Magnus.

 

And I'm not even saying this is optimal. It would suck to have Codex: Emperor's Children turn out to be Codex: not-Daughters-of-Khaine just as much as it sucked for us to discover Codex: Thousand Sons was Codex: Tzaangors. It may not even be probable that GW would port the Daughters over to 40k at all. What I am saying is that the only way I can see any incarnation of Codex: Emperor's Children hitting the shelves within the next 3-7 years (i.e. within 8th edition's lifespan) is with some sort of AoS model migration, and the Daughters of Khaine are simply the flashy, new, (very) vaguely Slaaneshi models that I could personally see making up that codex's AoS port lineup. But, more than anything, don't bet on getting a wave of 17 brand new kits comparable to the Death Guard. Let's at least be realistic here and admit to ourselves that the Death Guard indeed have been receiving special treatment above and beyond what any other (non-Primaris) army can reasonably expect to receive.

 

I mean Talon of Horus made it quite clear, Beastmen are actually fairly valuable to Thousand Sons.  Bare in mind; "Illiterate" DOES NOT mean "stupid." In fact quite the opposite in the case of the Tzaangors. 

 

To me fluff matters a great deal, within the context of 40k, Khayon from Talon of Horus spoke at length about the beastmen (one of his flagship officers is a Tzaangor), they are strong, and relatively intelligent (Strong and cunning were the exact words used) and I concur with the above regarding the Numerical issues facing the thousand sons. Outside of the context of fluff were talking entirely about gameplay.....

 

For 8th edition; EVERY. SINGLE. MARINE. ARMY. suffers the same way, we are no exception.  Marines have issues this edition, it sucks, but its where every marine book finds itself.  That's not an issue with the Thousand Sons, that's an issue caused by the edition. Hordes are the edition; I GUARANTEE if Tzaangors were not in the book it would just be called "codex cultists with magic!" as the ridiculous monikers continue.  (let it be known I also don't play in hyper competitive tourney only Metas, in fact I refuse to play in that type of meta) So for me personally I actually use Rubrics 95% of games at least 1-2 squads usually more, though I understand some do not have this luxury. 

 

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

Given that the AoS fluff is marching slowly toward the return of Slaanesh, I think it's quite likely that there will be an AoS Slaanesh release at some point. If there is to be a special cultist level unit for Emperor's Children, my guess is it will likely be a new kit for a new unit that can be used in both systems. Who knows if it'll be Slaangors, drug fueled berserker slaves, or whatever, but I doubt they'll reuse the Daughters of Khaine in that role. Given old fluff that Khaine is an aspect of Khorne, there's a stronger argument to be made that they would end up in a World Eaters codex, and I think that just has a very low chance of happening.

 

Especially given the new edition of Age of Sigmar is called the Soul Wars, they're definitely building up to the release of Slaanesh, which is definitely going to see a parallel focus in 40k, given the previous trends of Tzeentch/Nurgle.

 

We've also had explicit mentions that Fulgrim is now active (and nothing on Angron, from memory), so they're definitely building up to the Emperors Children getting a release, no pun intended.

[Tokugawa]

Ultramarines is the Poster boyz of 40K, then GW made Nurgle the poster bad boyz. Sooo many plastic kits. Dark imperium box also boost the players base of Nurgle very much.

 

EC would very possible receive a TSons-like release in the next 2-3 years. But DG-like? No chance at all. Monster with 8 boobs is just, not suitable for the poster character role.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I mean, we’re basically guaranteed Fulgrim/Lucius/Noise Marines, and some sort of Lord and Terminator unit. On top of that, we’re likely to see a vehicle of some kind (sonic Hulbrute?), a cultist-equivalent (probably Slaangors), and a handful of other character models. Pure wishlisting is that we get an Apothecary kit that can also make Fabius Bile.

[Panzer]

Eh I wouldn't say they made DG poster boys. By that logic Daughters of Khaine, then Idoneth Deepkin and soon Nighthaunt are their poster boys as well. It was simply a big army release coupled with them being part of this editions starter box.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

=][= Age of Sigmar discussions are not board appropriate. Conversation about porting AoS models into 40K, sure, but let's leave the rest of it out please. =][=

[Panzer]

 

Given that the AoS fluff is marching slowly toward the return of Slaanesh, I think it's quite likely that there will be an AoS Slaanesh release at some point. If there is to be a special cultist level unit for Emperor's Children, my guess is it will likely be a new kit for a new unit that can be used in both systems. Who knows if it'll be Slaangors, drug fueled berserker slaves, or whatever, but I doubt they'll reuse the Daughters of Khaine in that role. Given old fluff that Khaine is an aspect of Khorne, there's a stronger argument to be made that they would end up in a World Eaters codex, and I think that just has a very low chance of happening.

 

Especially given the new edition of Age of Sigmar is called the Soul Wars, they're definitely building up to the release of Slaanesh, which is definitely going to see a parallel focus in 40k, given the previous trends of Tzeentch/Nurgle.

 

We've also had explicit mentions that Fulgrim is now active (and nothing on Angron, from memory), so they're definitely building up to the Emperors Children getting a release, no pun intended.

 

 

Soul Wars doesn't necessarily hint towards Slaanesh. The current narrative in AoS is all about the Death faction and there are a bunch of factions who have something with souls going on (Idoneth are soul thieves, Nighthaunts are basically souls and Stormcasts get parts of their souls stolen by Nagash when they get reforged).

So while a return of Slaanesh is definitely possible and GW indeed keeps mentioning Slaanesh, especially with the two new elve factions now, Soul Wars doesn't really have anything to do with that.

It's also just the name of the AoS 2.0 starter set.

 

I think the fact that Fulgrim and EC got mentioned in Gathering Storm multiple times and Angrons arrival gotten thwarted at Armageddon is much more of a reason to believe Slaanesh and EC will be the next thing to come. No need to look into AoS for that. ;)

[Gederas]

And moving on past the arguments about AoS, look at the new Rumour Mill photo:

 

 

June 5th, 2018

Oh look. ANOTHER Claw that's Slaaneshi-looking.

[Panzer]

And moving on past the arguments about AoS, look at the new Rumour Mill photo:

 

 

June 5th, 2018

Oh look. ANOTHER Claw that's Slaaneshi-looking.

 

 

Just take a look at the Rumour engine thread in the News&Rumours section. It's clearly a Genestealer Cult sword.

[Slave to Darkness]

Back when Epic was a thing Beastmen were in virtually every army.

[The Nephilim]

I, for one, hope for Slaangors. They would make such an amazing and beautiful edition to anyone's army. 

[Kite Senet]

It makes me genuinely sad that people have gone to such far lengths to misrepresent my comments here, as to invent quotes suggesting I argued something very much contrary to what I did actually state. (I never suggested they were trying to "force AoS into 40k" and directly rebutted this interpretation at least once.)

 

And I am disappointed that people have fixated so much on my poorly chosen example in the quasi-Slaaneshi elves as to generally neglect my point, that GW designs their rules in ways to maximize the demographic to which a given kit can sell, and does so especially with kits which would otherwise have very narrow markets (e.g. Tzaangors) -- even calling this a "conspiracy theory"!

 

But most of all, I'm disappointed in myself for lashing out irrationally against Tzaangors in a lame attempt to vent my frustration with others continually missing the point and/or contorting the intent of my comments---in actuality I don't hate the goats as my previous comment suggests---and not realizing that they are thematically tied to the T-Sons by the theme of mutation. (Even though the Spireguard's absence remains a sore spot.)

 

As my intended last, and hopefully much more constructive contribution to this thread, I would also like to correct my analysis of what might be reasonable based on more current info (since while I still hold that T-Sons got the short end of the stick in terms of unit variety, that is in fact old information and may be quite outdated; simply being another dedicated chaos legion does not make its statistics valid for extrapolation). In the below I count disjoint kits, not kits based on the same sprues, and only roughly estimate their scale and role:

• Idoneth Deepkin got: 4 characters, 2 large single models, 2 "troops", 1 "elites", and 2 massive Lord of War scale kits
• Daughters of Khaine got: 2 "elite" kits, 1 troop kit, and 2 Lord of War scale kits
• Maggotkin of Nurgle got: 4 characters, 1 troop kit, 2 large single models, 2 elites, and 1 Lord of War scale kit

Overall, there's a lot of variation between the release sizes and shapes of different armies, but the releases follow an approximate 5-7 major kits per release occasionally with a bunch of characters thrown in on top. This would form my (revised) expectations for the sizes of a non-AoS-linked Emperor's Children release. However, with the pairing of e.g. Slaangors from an AoS crossover, 9 or so kits would not be infeasible.