Knight Helverins- The Superior Firbase for us?

[Aothaine]

 

That's probably true as well. A Knight would have to replace one of our own heavy hitters like a DC/SG unit + support or a Stormraven etc. since it can't replace something like line troops.

That won't stop me from taking one for our semi-competetive games in my group tho. They are cool after all and it's not like I have DC or SG in my Primaris army so the only thing it could replace would be a Repulsor or Redemptor.

 

 

Ohhhh! That is actually a really good point. I wasn't thinking about using them as allies for Primaris Only forces. That is actually a really good idea. Take like 3 10-man units of Intercessors with like two Primaris Librarians. Then take like 1 knight and 2-3 helverins. Some of the lists cropping up right now are using the IG to fill out that troop roll but I honestly think you could get away with Primaris Blood Angels or possibly Dark Angels as they are really hard to move off of a objective point.

 

Something to look into for sure. 

 

But with saying that... I honestly think Primaris are best with Deathwatch at this point. The special ammo and Fortis Kill Team are just amazing. Almost feels like Primaris were designed specifically for Deathwatch.

[Panzer]

Yeah Deathwatch Primaris are sick. You don't even need anything else beside Intercessors thanks to SIA. Wrong subforum AND wrong thread for that tho. :P

[Are Verlo]

If I was to compare the armiger to one of our units (BA),

I think the golden standard would be the sicaran venator.

 

The armigers are better at busting ork trukks and similar models. When it comes to busting heavy tanks the venator is better, and it gets rerolls from captains/chapter masters/lieutenants.

[Arkhanist]

For the big stuff you have the warglaives - 30" assault D3 multimelta stats equivalent. Plus the 4A with the chain knife thingy that's only 1S less than a dreadnought CCW. Plus that 14" move.

 

Or one of their big brothers, of course. The venator is kick ass at what it does, but the armigers aren't really competing for that role. Forgeworld points can go massively up just as easily as they come down (see the poor superheavies!) so I wouldn't count on it being so cheap forever. Plus, you can buy 4 armigers for the real money cost of a venator...

 

I finally compared on the helverin vs the predator point and spec wise, and I agree that basically there's not much competitive reason to take a dakka pred (autocannon + 2 heavy bolters) when the helverin is available; it's faster, a better shot when moving, has effectively 2 longer range predator autocannons and is harder to kill for a few points difference. Killshot just isn't enough for me. Decent CC dreads such as the contemptor (or librarian) arguably have the edge over the warglaive with our chapter tactic (and the contemptor 5++) - but slower, with a worse gun and easier to bog down with infantry now warglaives also get the sweep attack mode. Some of the knight stratagems are brutal for CC, too.

 

Fortunately I have a ton of infantry to paint yet before i need to decide on what armour. I think my old dreads are a lot less likely to get stripped and refurbished though.

[Aothaine]

For the big stuff you have the warglaives - 30" assault D3 multimelta stats equivalent. Plus the 4A with the chain knife thingy that's only 1S less than a dreadnought CCW. Plus that 14" move.

 

Or one of their big brothers, of course. The venator is kick ass at what it does, but the armigers aren't really competing for that role. Forgeworld points can go massively up just as easily as they come down (see the poor superheavies!) so I wouldn't count on it being so cheap forever. Plus, you can buy 4 armigers for the real money cost of a venator...

 

I finally compared on the helverin vs the predator point and spec wise, and I agree that basically there's not much competitive reason to take a dakka pred (autocannon + 2 heavy bolters) when the helverin is available; it's faster, a better shot when moving, has effectively 2 longer range predator autocannons and is harder to kill for a few points difference. Killshot just isn't enough for me. Decent CC dreads such as the contemptor (or librarian) arguably have the edge over the warglaive with our chapter tactic (and the contemptor 5++) - but slower, with a worse gun and easier to bog down with infantry now warglaives also get the sweep attack mode. Some of the knight stratagems are brutal for CC, too.

 

Fortunately I have a ton of infantry to paint yet before i need to decide on what armour. I think my old dreads are a lot less likely to get stripped and refurbished though.

 

But why would we ever take a dakka predator when we could just take our forgotten Baal Predator? Just doesn't make any sense to me. 

 

When I field Predators there are there to shred heavies. Quad Lascannon pretty much on every single one. Then you throw Kill Shot out to wound 95% of targets on a 2+. 

 

To each his own though. The Armiger is good. But it doesn't really fit with Marines except Deathwatch imho. Just too many points and I'd rather have something that benefits from my chapter tactics or is entirely focused on Anti-Tank like the Quad-Lascannon Predators.

[Felstone]

To confirm a point, Armigers DO give you CP, you just need to take 3 of them in a Super Heavy Detachment, they just don't get any household rules when doing so (which isn't so big).

 

To be honest i'd rather sinks the CP and gain the keywords, doing so also means you don't have any characters meaning you can't equip relics ect (i believe).