First Captains

[Badaboom]

 Hello people!

 

 I am looking for information about the Legions' First Captains, both loyalists and traitor, to do a fan art series depicting them, or the closest character I can information about (such Eidolon for the Emperor's Children if there's no other known character of similar rank). If you could provide the names, I could to the rest of the research myself.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[Fenbain]

Dark Angels - Unclear as far as I can tell

 

Emperor's Children - Julius Kaesoron

 

Iron Warriors - Kydomor Forrix

 

White Scars - Command structure is different, but the closest would probably be Qin Xa

 

Space Wolves - Gunnar Gunnhilt

 

Imperial Fists - Sigismund

 

Night Lords - Jago Sevatarion

 

Blood Angels - Raldoron

 

Iron Hands - Gabriel Santor/Gabriel Santar (spelling is inconsistent)

 

World Eaters - as far as I can tell, they don't have one after Angron is found, as he kills most of the command structure and no one is promoted to take up the role.

 

Ultramarines - Marius Gage

 

Death Guard - Calas Typhon

 

Thousand Sons - Ahzek Ahriman

 

Sons of Horus - Ezekyle Abaddon

 

Word Bearers - Kor Phaeron

 

Salamanders - Artellus Numeon

 

Raven Guard - Command structure appears to be different, with four Legion Commanders of equal rank.

 

Alpha Legion - Ingo Pech

[Dreagher]

For the XII it is definitely Khârn, he may theoretically only be the captain of the 8th company, but practically he is the highest member after Angron himself.

[Kelborn]

Wouldn't Luther or rather Corswain count as first captain due to their rank as Seneschals?

[bluntblade]

Qin Xa is more the Khan's bodyguard than First Captain. Jubal Khan is the closest thing during the Heresy, but not before then. The Scars don't rank their Khans or companies.

 

Corswain was a Paladin, if I recall, and Alajos was the effective First Captain at the Heresy's outbreak.

Edited June 3, 2018 by bluntblade

[b1soul]

Yes...Qin Xa is more like Grimnir Blackblood or Azkaellon

 

I also think Legion chapter masters or lord commanders might outrank "first captains"...in some legions, it's quite confusing

 

For example I'm not sure whether Marius Gage is more senior than the Tetrachs

[Fenbain]

That's what I meant re: Qin Xa, seeing as the Khans are technically of equal rank. Guess it depends on who you see as being in charge/having more influence later on like you say.

 

They may, but that's not what the OP asked. I think Lord Commanders within the EC have more power and influence than the First Captain (though I could well be wrong about that), but Marius Gage is definitely 100% more senior than the Tetrarchs. He's second in command to Roboute Guilliman when it comes to the Legion's command structure. Similarly, Ingo Pech is the First Captain of the Alpha Legion, but often overridden in terms of control by the current Harrowmaster.

 

I couldn't even guess at the Dark Angels'...

[Corswain]

Luther is the Dark Angels First Captain, he held the role even after being sent back to Caliban.

[Gorgoff]

INGO PECH?!?

Hahaha for a german that sounds hilarious. :D

[Kelborn]

Luther is the Dark Angels First Captain, he held the role even after being sent back to Caliban.

I would agree but I'm currently reading Angels of Caliban in which Luther is told by Belath that Corswain has become the Lion's seneschal. Luther then says that he's not surprised about the Lion selecting a new second in command.

[D3L]

seneschal is not first captain, just as Khârn is the primarch's equerry, not first captain

[Sandlemad]

They may, but that's not what the OP asked. I think Lord Commanders within the EC have more power and influence than the First Captain (though I could well be wrong about that), but Marius Gage is definitely 100% more senior than the Tetrarchs. He's second in command to Roboute Guilliman when it comes to the Legion's command structure. Similarly, Ingo Pech is the First Captain of the Alpha Legion, but often overridden in terms of control by the current Harrowmaster.

 

The UM are weird as the Tetrarchs are as much (more?) military governors as they are astartes officers. They're not out on crusade and seem to be part of a separate chain of command, with a much wider remit than leading an expeditionary fleet. I'm not sure seniority is the most useful way to look comparing them to Marius Gage, they're a different beast. They report directly to Guilliman as well on managing Ultramar.

 

You make an interesting point about influence and importance. The command structure differs so much between legions that a lot of these dudes are difficult to meaningfully compare, even if that's getting away from the simple list the OP asked for. I think you're right about Kaesareon's role as EC first captain putting him below the lord commanders in seniority (so maybe Eidolon as lord commander primus is a better fit, despite the name?) but Fulgrim still turns to him as a useful hatchetman. Contrast that with Sigismund or Abbadon, both of whom lead elite forces and are the most senior officers in their legions.

 

You get the same comparing primarchs' bodyguards/elite units. Some just use their first companies (Horus and Abaddon's justaerin, Manus and Clan Avernii), others have their own units that run parallel to the other legion elites (Dorn's huscarls vs. the first company Templars). It's not quite apples and oranges but maybe apples and... pears?

[bluntblade]

seneschal is not first captain, just as Khârn is the primarch's equerry, not first captain

Do we know who was the actual First? Khârn was de facto First/would have been in a Legion which cared for the formality.

 

Re Chapter Masters and Lord Commanders, it depends on the Legion. The Sons of Horus never had Chapter Masters (Horus favoured a less rigid command structure,so Abaddon might lead Targhost and Sedirae in one battle and Horus Aximand lead one of them in the next), so instead captains held varying levels of seniority.

 

Abaddon, Sigismund and Sevatar are on par with Raldoran and Eidolon, for example.

Edited June 4, 2018 by bluntblade

[Vykes]

@ bluntblade, I seem to recall in Betrayer that the World Eater's ''Legion Master' was Lhorke at one point, then he was interred and his successor was killed by Angron when he awoke on the Conqueror.  The position never seemed to be filled after that and Khârrn became equerry. 

 

Bang on what I recall of The Sons of Horus, they just had a weirdly fluid system of seniority that took into account everything from company numeration to titles and previous precedent of command. 

 

Seems that a lot of legion command structures weren't quite so fixed, but various individuals had spheres of influence over certain facets of the legion (least from how I read it). 

[Marshal Loss]

 

Re Chapter Masters and Lord Commanders, it depends on the Legion. The Sons of Horus never had Chapter Masters (Horus favoured a less rigid command structure,so Abaddon might lead Targhost and Sedirae in one battle and Horus Aximand lead one of them in the next), so instead captains held varying levels of seniority.

 

They did have actually have Chapter Masters/Chapters, etc, but this extra layer of organisation had "eroded over time and was largely academic by the time of their transition to the Sons of Horus."

[Supe robot gangster #1]

Each legion would have had a “first captain” Being the captain of the first company, but a lot of legions would have had ranks that supersede that, for example Julius karsoron of the emperors children would be superceded by one of the seven lord commanders, who would then be superceded by Eidolon, being the primarch equirry, the role of equirry isn’t necessarily filled by the first captain, and vice-versa, it also doesn’t help that every legions command structure is different, from the highly structured command of the ultramarines and emperors children to the highly fluid structure of the thousand sons (whose second in command isn’t even a captain, but is a librarian). So unless it’s specified anywhere who the second in command of any given legion is, it is impossible to tell just by rank alone, as each legion varies wildly in its composition.

[sarabando]

That's what I meant re: Qin Xa, seeing as the Khans are technically of equal rank. Guess it depends on who you see as being in charge/having more influence later on like you say.

 

They may, but that's not what the OP asked. I think Lord Commanders within the EC have more power and influence than the First Captain (though I could well be wrong about that), but Marius Gage is definitely 100% more senior than the Tetrarchs. He's second in command to Roboute Guilliman when it comes to the Legion's command structure. Similarly, Ingo Pech is the First Captain of the Alpha Legion, but often overridden in terms of control by the current Harrowmaster.

 

I couldn't even guess at the Dark Angels'...

Qin XA was the captain of the Khan's Keshig i dont think this would be what we would consider a first captain. I think that roll would have been closer to some one like the Noyan-Khans.

[Balthamal]

Numeon was leader of the Pyreguard irrc and wasn't in direct command of a company.

 

In addition Gage was a Chapter Master rather than a captain.

 

If we're talking the Primarch's #2 then it would look something like:

 

 

Dark Angels - Luther (Pre Heresy)/ Corswain (Heresy)

Emperor's Children - Eidolon or Vaspasian

Iron Warriors - Forrix

White Scars - Qin Xa later Jubal Khan

Space Wolves - Gunnar Gunhilt later Bjorn

Imperial Fists - Sigismund

Night Lords - Sevatar

Blood Angels - Raldoron

Iron Hands - Santar

World Eaters - Khârn

Ultramarines - Marius Gage

Death Guard - Calas Typhon

Thousand Sons - Ahriman

Word Bearers - Kor Phaeron

Salamanders - Numeon

Raven Guard - Agapito

Alpha Legion - Ingo Pech/Matthias Herzog/Kel Selonius (honestly it could be anyone)

[Checkmate]

I believe Numeon was Leader of the pyre guard, Vulkan's Equerry, and 1st captain of the salamanders. I'm not a huge fan of how the novels portray the legions command structure, but it appears that each member of the pyre guard were also the captain of a company.

Can't help with any of the other legions though I'm afraid.

[Saphrael]

Dark Angels - Luther (Pre Heresy)/ Corswain (Heresy)

Not quite correct.

 

Luther remained 'First Captain' all the way through to the Scouring. As far as we can tell, Corswain became Seneschal sometime after the events of Savage Weapons.

 

The function of the roles might be quite similar, but the rank is definitely different.

 

EDIT: Please disregard, I didn't see your comment about "Primarch's #2". Corswain is definitely The Lion's #2, but he's a 'Seneschal' not a 'First Captain'

Edited June 6, 2018 by Saphrael

[Laughingman]

I was under the impression Angron would basically direct his legion to butcher a planet then storm off and  leave the actual planning  and preparation to the remaining senior commanders  (I believe in Betrayer they were referred to as tribunes). 

[Supe robot gangster #1]

I was under the impression Angron would basically direct his legion to butcher a planet then storm off and leave the actual planning and preparation to the remaining senior commanders (I believe in Betrayer they were referred to as tribunes).

I don’t think so! Angron is quite tactically adept, however he just has trouble following said plans once the battle actually begins, I mean he had no trouble successfully leading a guerilla resistance (somewhat).

[Gorgoff]

 

I was under the impression Angron would basically direct his legion to butcher a planet then storm off and leave the actual planning and preparation to the remaining senior commanders (I believe in Betrayer they were referred to as tribunes).

I don’t think so! Angron is quite tactically adept, however he just has trouble following said plans once the battle actually begins, I mean he had no trouble successfully leading a guerilla resistance (somewhat).

In Betrayal he ordered an attack and then didn't gave a :cuss about planning.

[Sandlemad]

 

 

I was under the impression Angron would basically direct his legion to butcher a planet then storm off and leave the actual planning and preparation to the remaining senior commanders (I believe in Betrayer they were referred to as tribunes).

I don’t think so! Angron is quite tactically adept, however he just has trouble following said plans once the battle actually begins, I mean he had no trouble successfully leading a guerilla resistance (somewhat).

In Betrayal he ordered an attack and then didn't gave a about planning.

 

 

In fairness Lorgar does say that Angron had been getting worse over time, as the nails slowly killed him. His attack on the Brotherhood of Ruin, his first campaign as commander of the WE, is an example of a well-planned operation. Multiple waves of drop assaults with orbital coordination. Not very subtle but that played to their strengths.

[Leman Russ SW]

Wasn't Astalan first captain of the Dark Angels as he was the Commander of the first before The Lion was found.