First Captains

[Brother Styphus]

Wasn't Astalan first captain of the Dark Angels as he was the Commander of the first before The Lion was found.

No, as there were Terrans that outranked him on Caliban.

[Arminius_Warbringer]

Gherith Arendi, commander of Corax's "Shadow Warden" bodyguard is probably the best candidate for the Raven Guard. When Corax planned to commit suicide and go down fighting with the Vlka Fenryka he formally planned to name Arendi his successor. Agipito and his brother Commander Bran are other options but I think Arendi is probably the best fit.

[Commander Nicky]

The thing is that the legions' chain of command and command structure changed as their primarch was discovered and inserted as Legion Master. They impose those changes they saw fit, and redelegated resposebility to those astartes they had the greatest trust in.

 

I would also refraime from useing the "1st captain" as a synonym for "second-in-command". It seems almost delivery that the primarch did not keep an direct chain of command as who was number 1, number 2, number 3 and so on in the chain-of-command. It must be so that the officers where dependent on their primarch favor to keep their position in the "food chain".

 

It is also important to point out that:

 

"By the time of the outbreak of inter-Legionary hostilities during the Istvaan III Atrocity, the command and organisational structure of a Space Marine Legion was often more a mirror of the character and preferences of its Primarch and its abiding culture than formal writ.

 

While certain formations and features were common as an outgrowth of practical manners such as deployment and logistics, their organisation and use was far from standardised. During the Great Crusade there were numerous terms for the internal constituent units of a Space Marine Legion, from largest to smallest: Great Companies, Regiments, Chapters, Battalions, Cohorts, Demi-Chapters, Companies, Squads and Maniples."

 

It seems to me for example in the Emperor's Children (EC), White Scars (WS), Iron Hand (IS), Word Bearers (WB) and Alpha Legion (AL) it seem that the legion was divided first into chapter size formation each lead by a chaper master/lord commander but where there is a 1st Captain who either had seniority over the other captains and/or over the chapter masters. It all depended on the primarch. It seems here, that in the EC (Kaesoron), WS (Qin Xi) and AL (Ingo Pech) belonged to the former organisation and IS (Santor) and WB (Kor Pharon) belong to the later. In the EC, WS, and AL it seems to be Eidolon, Hasik and someone (Kel Silonius for a time) who was the favored theatre commander and thereby second-in-command to their primarch in these legions.

It also seems that the 1st captain in these legions where the "best" line commander while the chapter master/lord commander was a theatre commander who was to oversee the mission/operations while the captains/khans took care of planing and directing the battle and that the chapter master/lord commander only took to the battle when wishing so...

 

In the Iron Warriors (IW), Space Wolves (SW), Ultramarines (UM), Death Guard (DG), Thousand Sons (TS) and Salamander legion (SL) they also (like EC, WS and so on) contained a structure where the legions where divided into Chapters like formations and then subdivided into companies lead by a captains, but where the 1st Captain are also the chapter master of the first chapter are the same. In this case there is a clear second-in-command to the primarch (Gunnar Gunnhilt) ..

 

The last case is Imperial Fists (IF), Night Lords (NL), Blood Angels (BA) and Sons of Horus (SH) had a structure where there where no Chapter size formations and the Compaines was the standard formations. Here the 1st captain is again the second-in-command.

 

The Dark Angels (DA) had two command structures and command hierarchy and represent how the legion was divided in two: The one on Caliban where Luther was Grand Master (legion master on Caliban) and Astelan First Master (second-in-command or 1st captain on Caliban) and the one on crusade where The lion is in legion master and Corswain is second-in-command (and somewhere between a commander and equarry to the Lion). This clearly illustrate the different and the wrife between the Lion and Luther. They are now in command of two different forces...

The Raven Guard (RG) seems to belong to either the same category UM if you ask me. It could also belong to the category which the DA is in as Corax despaced some of the Terran elements to the outer darkness and reorganised his legion following the Battle of Gate Forty-Two.
 

The last is the World Eaters (WE) whose command structure seems to have degraded after Angron arrival... I don't know how this force was commanded...

[Indefragable]

You have:

 

-first captains: the captains of the 1st Company. Usually, but not always a position of at least peer-respect as “the first” of anything in any military culture has some prestige (“the Big Red One,” et al).

 

-First Captains: a rank denoting the more-than-equals status of a captain who most often—but not always—commanded the 1st Company. The 1st Company in term is often The Elite unit of the Legion, but not always (see below).

 

-Equerry: the right-hand of the Primarch, his chosen representative and ambassador representing his authority whenever he could not personally attend. While not a command rank in and of itself, it has undeniable de facto power by it’s very nature, not unlike a Chief of Staff to a current world leader.

 

-”Guard” Captain: the commander of a Primarch’s personal guard unit (whether a formal Guard or not). Similar to the Equerry, by their very nature these leaders have an air of authority and wise commanders take their word under advisement at the least. That being said, their role does not automatically designate them as 2nd in Command.

 

-The Elite: many Legions have an (or a few) Elite units separate from Terminators/Vets etc... most often these fit into the 1st Company or the Guard units, but not always.

 

-The Dragon: a particularly fearsome or skilled warrior/commander that does not fit into any of the above. Amit or Khârn or Alexis Pollus would fit into this category, at least to start.

 

********

Abbadon of the SoH and Raldoron of the BA are probably the easiest examples since they simultaneously tick off almost all of the above, though Abaddon was not Equerry and Ral was not commander of a particular Elite/Guard unit. Sigismund of the IF would also be one who ticks off the most buttons at once, although he also did not command a Guard unit: Elite (Templars), yes, but the IF also had Huscarls which were Dorn’s bodyguard unit.

 

As mentioned by others, the World Eaters break away from the above b/c Khârn is basically the one guy everyone listens to besides Angry Daddy. Even though he is technically 8th Capt, he is de facto all of the above. Interestingly, the WE’s Elite/Guard unit is almost an anti-Elite, since the Devourers became Angron’s punching bags and he mocked the very concept. As such it became more of a punishment than a reward.

 

Likewise, the Iron Warriors blow the above out of the water too. They have the Trident which is 3 commanders that advise Perturabo (or more he pretends to listen to them and belittles them). They have a First Captain, but it is a far cry from the above.

They have specialized units that are elite (Tyrant Siege Terminators, Havocs, Stor-Bezashk) at what they do, but not necessarily The Elite that many other Legions have. Perturabo also famously has the Iron Circle robots as his bodyguard since he trusts no man with the role.

 

**********

TL;DR: if you are confused you’re in the right place. Pick the guy you think best reps what characteristics/features you want for a Legion and run with it.

[JeffJedi]

Great breakdown Indefragable.

 

Its further confusing since Forgeworld books used a whole different set of names for many command ranks.

[Cloud Runner]

@Jeffjedi - surely that's the wonder of it all - the mystery and clandestine nature of the legions!

[b1soul]

Is there an example of a First Captain who didn't command the 1st Company of his Legion? Sigismund?

 

So applied to the WS, I'd say...

 

1. Yesugei = Equerry

2. Qin Xa = Chief Bodyguard/Dragon

3. Jubal = Dragon

4. First Captain = I'd say the most senior Noyan Khan...likely Hasik

 

I think it get confusing when a legion has a First Captain like Julius Kaesoron and then a Lord Commander Primus like Eidolon.

 

Or a First Chapter Master like Marius Gage and then Tetrarchs (who each rule roughly a quarter of Ultramar below only Guilliman) who seem to outrank him.

[bluntblade]

Is there an example of a First Captain who didn't command the 1st Company of his Legion? Sigismund?

 

So applied to the WS, I'd say...

 

1. Yesugei = Equerry

2. Qin Xa = Chief Bodyguard/Dragon

3. Jubal = Dragon

4. First Captain = I'd say the most senior Noyan Khan...likely Hasik

 

I think it get confusing when a legion has a First Captain like Julius Kaesoron and then a Lord Commander Primus like Eidolon.

 

Or a First Chapter Master like Marius Gage and then Tetrarchs (who each rule roughly a quarter of Ultramar below only Guilliman) who seem to outrank him.

I thought the Templars were First Company, just never referred to as such.

 

Tetrarchs are separate from the Chapter Masters. I'd say each is equal to Gage but with a different role.

 

The relationship between Chapter Master and Captain is something I'd like to see more of, actually.

Edited August 26, 2020 by bluntblade

[Elzender]

According to Extermination, the Templars are "Nominally the First Company of the Imperial Fists [...] and their members were drawn from veterans across the Legion." So yeah, Sigismund was First Captain as the Captain of the First Company, so I guess in the case of the Imperial Fists that title comes attached to command of the First Company.

Funnily enough, they were created as the guardians of the Temple of Oaths inside the Phalanx, giving them in theory a more defensive or guarding role than what we normally associate with them due to their 40K descendants.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Elzender

[bluntblade]

According to Extermination, the Templars are "Nominally the First Company of the Imperial Fists [...] and their members were drawn from veterans across the Legion." So yeah, Sigismund was First Captain as the Captain of the First Company, so I guess in the case of the Imperial Fists that title comes attached to command of the First Company.

Funnily enough, they were created as the guardians of the Temple of Oaths inside the Phalanx, giving them in theory a more defensive or guarding role than what we normally associate with them due to their 40K descendants.

This comes up in Templar, actually. The Temple of Oaths is barred to anyone but the Fists, except for those who Dorn invites in. 

[Indefragable]

 

 

According to Extermination, the Templars are "Nominally the First Company of the Imperial Fists [...] and their members were drawn from veterans across the Legion." So yeah, Sigismund was First Captain as the Captain of the First Company, so I guess in the case of the Imperial Fists that title comes attached to command of the First Company.

Funnily enough, they were created as the guardians of the Temple of Oaths inside the Phalanx, giving them in theory a more defensive or guarding role than what we normally associate with them due to their 40K descendants.

This comes up in Templar, actually. The Temple of Oaths is barred to anyone but the Fists, except for those who Dorn invites in.

The Knights Templar, the historical military order that...never mind if I have to tell you who they are then this is pointless...

 

...any hoo, the historical Knights Templar got their name from the fact that their first piece of land and HQ was the Temple on the Mount (believed to be over the Temple of Solomon) in Jerusalem. “Templar” is essentially a contraction meaning “the guys from the Temple” meaning the “Temple of Solomon” (you can look up their official long form name).

 

So in that context, the VII Legion’s Templar fit precisely in that same vein. The Temple of Oaths is a sacred/special place. Whereas other Legionaries go home to a barracks, the Templars “home” is that most sacred of places. A high honor indeed. So it does fit in with them being zealous as well.

[bluntblade]

 

 

According to Extermination, the Templars are "Nominally the First Company of the Imperial Fists [...] and their members were drawn from veterans across the Legion." So yeah, Sigismund was First Captain as the Captain of the First Company, so I guess in the case of the Imperial Fists that title comes attached to command of the First Company.

Funnily enough, they were created as the guardians of the Temple of Oaths inside the Phalanx, giving them in theory a more defensive or guarding role than what we normally associate with them due to their 40K descendants.

This comes up in Templar, actually. The Temple of Oaths is barred to anyone but the Fists, except for those who Dorn invites in.

The Knights Templar, the historical military order that...never mind if I have to tell you who they are then this is pointless...

 

...any hoo, the historical Knights Templar got their name from the fact that their first piece of land and HQ was the Temple on the Mount (believed to be over the Temple of Solomon) in Jerusalem. “Templar” is essentially a contraction meaning “the guys from the Temple” meaning the “Temple of Solomon” (you can look up their official long form name).

 

So in that context, the VII Legion’s Templar fit precisely in that same vein. The Temple of Oaths is a sacred/special place. Whereas other Legionaries go home to a barracks, the Templars “home” is that most sacred of places. A high honor indeed. So it does fit in with them being zealous as well.

 

Oh absolutely - and I should have remembered this from my Crusades module in uni.