First win with the new codex

[xenomortis]

I played my first 8th edition codex game this weekend and scored a win against a local tournament winning tau list at 2k points. The tau list is a brigade consisting of commander, ethereal, longstrike, fireblade, approx 60 infantry, 2 ghostkeels, riptide, 2 hammerheads and a few other bits and pieces. 

 

My list was:

 

Deathwatch battalion:

 

HQ

 

Watchmaster (Warlord with Lord of the Hidden Knowledge and the Tome of Ectoclades)

Librarian (Force sword / bolt pistol) (Veil of Time and Might of Heroes)

 

Troops

 

Fortis kill team 1 

5 intercessors (bolt rifles, bolt pistols, aux grenade launcher)

5 hellblasters (plasma incinerators)

 

Fortis kill team 2

5 intercessors (auto bolt rifles, bolt pistols, aux grenade launcher)

3 aggressors (auto boltstorm gauntlets, fragstrom grenade launchers)

2 reivers (bolt carbines, heavy bolt pistols)

 

Deathwach kill team (5 vets)

Sgt (combi plasma / power sword)

2 frag cannons

Boltgun / chainsword

Boltgun / storm shield

 

Heavy support

 

Mortis dreadnought (2 twin lascannons)

 

Relic leviathan dreadnought (2 heavy flamers, storm cannon array, leviathan siege drill, meltagun)

 

Transport

 

Razorback (twin lascannon)

 

Astra militarum battalion:

 

HQ

 

Tempestor prime (command rod)

 

Lord commissar (plasma pistol / power sword) (Kurovs aquila)

 

Troops

 

5 scions (Sgt plasma pistol / chainsword, 2 meltas, 2 hotshot lasguns, 1 hotshot laspistol, vox caster)

 

5 scions (Sgt plasma pistol / chainsword, 2 plasma guns, 2 hotshot lasguns, 1 hotshot laspistol, vox caster)

 

5 scions (Sgt bolt pistol / power first, 2 hotshot volleyguns, 2 hotshot lasguns)

 

Transport

 

Taurox prime (gatling cannon, 2 hotshot volleyguns, storm bolter)

 

I paid a command point to take Kurovs Aquila on the lord commissar letting me regen command points on a 5+ (both mine and my opponents).

 

We played the 'Sealed orders' mission from Chapter Approved which you have to draw 6 cards initially, keep them secret and you can't draw new cards until you have achieved all of them. Alternatively you can pay 1cp to discard 3 cards. 

 

I paid 3cp to hold my watchmaster, leviathan dread and fortis kill team 1 in reserve. I also held 2 scion squads and the tempestor prime in reserve (47 power level in reserve, 54 on the table). 

 

The anti infantry scions rode in the taurox, the veteran kill team and librarian in the razorback.

 

I knew first turn was a must for me as I had very little on the board to take 2 turns of intense tau shooting. I lost the roll but managed to sieze 

 

Turn 1 was uneventful, killed some drones and stripped some wounds off a ghostkeel. I then took an inevitable beating and my razorback was left on 1 wound, the taurox on 4 wounds, a couple of wounds stripped off the mortis dread but nothing died.

 

Turn 2 I brought on my watchmaster, leviathan dread and fortis kill team 1 in a bubble. They were all within 9" - 12" of 2 hammerheads and ghostkeel. I used the tome of ectoclades and enabled the malleus tactic. I overcharged and rapid fired the 5 hellblasters into long strike and scored 18 unsaved wounds!! The leviathan melta'd and storm cannoned another hammerhead again killing it in 1 turn of shooting. The veteran kill team had bailed out of the razorback and smited and frag cannoned a ghostkeel again killing it. My mortis dread pumped some lascannon shots into the other ghostkeel taking it down to 2 wounds. Fortis kill team 2 moved up and killed a few infantry.

 

Tau turn 2 I lost the taurox prime and the full squad of fortis kill team 2 were focus fired off the board.

 

By this point I think I was 6-4 up on objectives.

 

Turn 3 I finished off the ghostkeel and killed the third hammerhead. I did however lose 2 hellblasters to overheating plasma. I brought all my scions on and camped them on an objective which I needed to defend. 

 

It gets a little blurry from then on in but I ended up winning 12-8 when the game ended after turn 5. If it had continued I would have probably been tabled as I only had the veteran squad and librarian, half of fortis kill team 1, the watch master and leviathan dread on 6 wounds. My opponent had 30+ infantry, a commander and a riptide. 

 

It was a really good game and I'm happy on the whole with the codex. In hindsight I probably went a little too much anti armour and could do with a little more anti infantry. Fortis kill team 2 didn't do much but I did advance them into a huge tau infantry blob which was a mistake!

 

Take aways:

• Leviathan dreads are amazing (especially combined with might of heroes)
• Hellblasters can be devastating with the right buffs 
• Standard bolt rifles at 36" range ap-2 should not be discounted
• 2 battalions is the way to go as we are a CP heavy army
• I need to try and fit my corvus into the list
• Don't advance a squad into rapid fire range of 30+ fire warriors

[leth]

Yeah, the bolt rifles on primaris just seem so good compared to the other weapons(especially since the other ones cost more). Rapid fire at 18, or keeping the 12 if they use vengence rounds is huge. 

[Aothaine]

Well done!

[SnakeChisler]

Leviathan dreads are gonna be big for us I'm thinking dual storm cannon array but the fist sounds cool might of heroes on it as well !

[Prot]

I rarely, if ever , get to use Forgeworld pieces why is the Leviathan such a hit specifically for Deathwatch?

[Qui-Gon]

Look at its stats and what it can do and then let us know if you think its good.

[Prot]

 Aside from 'look it up' can anyone else tell me why Deathwatch players specifically are attracted to that Dreadnaught variant?

[Cap'm Heckus]

It’s tough and puts out a ridiculous amount of dakka.

[Aothaine]

 Aside from 'look it up' can anyone else tell me why Deathwatch players specifically are attracted to that Dreadnaught variant?

 

It really isn't specific to Deathwatch. The Leviathan Dreadnought with double storm cannon array is way undercosted for what it does. What it does is provide a massive amount of S7 fire support. To be honest it is a crutch and should not be focused on. The new Deathwatch codex is amazingly good with Fortis Kill Teams and the older kill teams in the same army. 

 

The Leviathan Dreadnought is useful in every Space Marine army right now because of it being undercosted but I'm not sure we'll see it fixed. Right now the best setups I'm seeing are like this..

 

Heavy Support Detachment

 

Techmarine

 

Mortis Dread (Double Autocannon) x2

Levi Dread (Double Storm Cannon Array) x2

 

The fire-power in this detachment is ridiculous and you have plenty of points left to fill out a battalion of troops and chaff to protect them. 

 

Edit: They also do not require a lot of CPs as they have so many shots that missing one-two doesn't really matter. This leaves you a bunch of CPs for more risky or CP heavy units like scouts with a heavy bolter.

[Moostick]

Leviathan is especially good because it can deepstrike with DW. I think we are one of the few (if not only?) SM factions that can DS him into perfect range of its weapons.

 

I personally prefer to DS other dreads, but that's my guess. I don't like the Leviathan's look much.

[Aothaine]

Leviathan is especially good because it can deepstrike with DW. I think we are one of the few (if not only?) SM factions that can DS him into perfect range of its weapons.

 

I personally prefer to DS other dreads, but that's my guess. I don't like the Leviathan's look much.

 

Ohhh wow.. that is a very valid point. Deep Striking Leviathans is just silly strong. I imagine this is going to change come the next Big FAQ.

[Prot]

Interesting. Here I was thinking that I might actually get decent use out of my Redemptor with tons of dakka with +1 to wound. And deepstrike. I guess this uses the strats even better.

 

Funny I faced a list with two Forgeworld dreads in an ITC early round matchup, but I wasn’t impressed. Maybe he had the wrong variant.

 

I am guessing here but perhaps it is the S8 as much as anything? I struggle in my lists to fill that gap.

 

I just had a pretty convincing loss against Necrons with a ton of invulnerable saves that simply hacked me apart. Maybe that’s why I’m leaning towards dakka. Plus the tournament was half spam and half Astra parking lot. Really forcing diversity in shooting.

[xenomortis]

Leviathan dreads were a decent pre-codex option but unless you took a Dreadnought drop pod struggled with a delivery method. You basically had to foot slog across the board and it's ranged weapons are pretty short ranged:

 

Storm cannon array: 24" Heavy 10 S7 AP-2 D2

Cyclonic melta lance: 18" Heavy 2D3 S9 AP-4 DD6 (melta)

Grav flux bombard: 18" Heavy D3 S9 AP-5 D2 (Straight D5 vs MONSTERS, VEHICLES and TITANIC. Also D3 shots for every 5 models in target unit)

 

For this reason (pre-codex) I always went with the storm cannon array and grav flux bombard, also accompanied by a watchmaster and screened with a unit of veterans. 

 

Now that we have the teleportarium stratagem the leviathans melee weapons can really come into their own and we can instantly get into range with all of the above ranged options.

 

The siege drill is S16 AP-4 D4 with 3 attacks (if taken with a ranged weapon as the other arm) and comes with an inbuilt meltagun.

 

They have a WS and BS of 2+ also so when accompanied by a watchmaster rarely miss. Combine this with mission tactics and doctrines and you can also get +1 to wound, rerolling 1s. 

 

With a stat line of T8 (buffed to T9 with might of heroes), 2+ 4++ and 14W they take some serious shifting. They also have 2 heavy flamers so don't tend to get charged too often by units of chaff.

 

They went from being a solid choice pre-codex to (in my opinion) brillilant now. 

[Vel'Cona]

Indeed, Leviathan Dreadnoughts are one of the few units that made it through GW's huge points adjustment on FW's early under-pricing relatively unscathed.  I have a feeling CA 2018 will address this handily, but for the moment they're an excellent choice for almost all SM armies though this is especially true with DW's innate flexibility in terms of special rules (Mission Tactics), Strategems (Doctrines and Teleportarium) and inexpensive support synergy (Captains, Watch Masters).

 

That being said, I don't think that other forms of Dreadnought are pants, not by any stretch.  Being able to DS up to 3 Dreadnoughts is massive for DW and I've been considering dropping 3 lower-priced standard Dreads as an armoured spearhead for larger games.

[leth]

Its because most FW is not undercosted.  

[xenomortis]

The loadout I took in this game was 341 points. They're fairly costed in my opinion

[Finkmilkana]

Yeah, I also think they are strong but fine. At most 20 points or so undercosted. Purely on dealt wounds per point they are already behind plasma vets. Which is not to say GW might not decide to bring them in line with the rest of the overcosted dreadnoughts.

[leth]

They are literally ONLY potentially undercosted for us.  Against everyone else they can easily die before firing a shot. 

[Aothaine]

They are literally ONLY potentially undercosted for us.  Against everyone else they can easily die before firing a shot. 

 

Not sure if I agree here at all. Double Stormcannon Arrays and you have a beast of a dreadnought shooting 20 S7 AP-2 D2 attacks. That is crazy and better than the Avenger Gatling Cannon that everyone is raving about in the new Knight dex. They are hands down better with Deathwatch because you can deep strike them though and by doing so you insure that they are protected from the first round of shooting if you don't get first turn. But after that they have 2+ / 4++ save. These things are beasts and can almost equal the output of Knights which is crazy.

 

But, I apologize for taking the topic off course. Great job on the first win xenomortis!

[leth]

Sure and a melta gun is awesome if you ignore one key thing: range.

 

But yes, I incorporated your thoughts into my current list ideas. Very awesome!

[Prot]

I’m just going to be honest here... I think Deathwatch -need- a unit like this to work very well. Let’s face it there’s still a good chance in competitive games you’re going to get one good round out of that Dread.

 

I’m finding my Deathwatch really do need this type of unit and there are a few options that are all pretty much in the Dreadnought category.

 

There’s one thing else though that my Death Guard remind me of.... Combi melta. I think this is a little underutilized. We can do it without expensive te mine armour and it’s very potent at 12” combined with an Aura and the appropriate Strategem. The fac5 we can DS a vet unit just opens up some great tools.

[Delta.Skies]

I’m just going to be honest here... I think Deathwatch -need- a unit like this to work very well. Let’s face it there’s still a good chance in competitive games you’re going to get one good round out of that Dread.

 

I’m finding my Deathwatch really do need this type of unit and there are a few options that are all pretty much in the Dreadnought category.

 

There’s one thing else though that my Death Guard remind me of.... Combi melta. I think this is a little underutilized. We can do it without expensive te mine armour and it’s very potent at 12” combined with an Aura and the appropriate Strategem. The fac5 we can DS a vet unit just opens up some great tools.

I was thinking that too. Didnt have the points for combis though so I'm going with 4 stormbolters (blackshield included) 2 combis 2 stormshields and vv with powerlances and chainswords. To at least last 2 turns on the DS. But yea leviathan from what I seen and heard is a beast. Paired with might of heroes, watch master and tactics. Formidable. But nice to hear about your win. All these youtube batreps I've seen we are always losing and taking heavy losses by turn 2.

[ashc]

Your game is a good example of how Deathwatch can work really well if treated properly Xenomortis, well done!

 

I really do think that the teleportarium strategem is the most useful spend of CP in the codex and really allows Deathwatch to play as Deathwatch should - surgical strike teams that can hit in turn 2 and then obliterate your opponent's key units. It's not surprising that your footslogging fortis team 2 were focus-fired off the board comparatively early - would you still field them in the future as a turn 1 drop or do you think something else could have been a better spend of points?

[xenomortis]

Your game is a good example of how Deathwatch can work really well if treated properly Xenomortis, well done!

 

I really do think that the teleportarium strategem is the most useful spend of CP in the codex and really allows Deathwatch to play as Deathwatch should - surgical strike teams that can hit in turn 2 and then obliterate your opponent's key units. It's not surprising that your footslogging fortis team 2 were focus-fired off the board comparatively early - would you still field them in the future as a turn 1 drop or do you think something else could have been a better spend of points?

 

Thanks mate!

 

I would definitely try them again. It was an error on my part to isolate them and advance them into rapid fire range of 30+ fire warriors. 

 

The saving grace is that it took all of those fire warriors plus the commander and riptide to put them down. My opponent pretty much committed a full round of shooting at that point into killing that unit which allowed me another turn of maneuvering / shooting with everything else. It wasn't a cheap squad though (>250 points). I also removed the intercessors first which gave me a majority Toughness 5 with the 3 aggressors left on the board which made them even more resilient. 

 

Next time I will be a little more cautious with them. They were surprisingly quick being able to move, advance and still pump out 14 shots at 30" and on average 41 shots at 18". 

[leth]

 

Your game is a good example of how Deathwatch can work really well if treated properly Xenomortis, well done!

 

I really do think that the teleportarium strategem is the most useful spend of CP in the codex and really allows Deathwatch to play as Deathwatch should - surgical strike teams that can hit in turn 2 and then obliterate your opponent's key units. It's not surprising that your footslogging fortis team 2 were focus-fired off the board comparatively early - would you still field them in the future as a turn 1 drop or do you think something else could have been a better spend of points?

 

Thanks mate!

 

I would definitely try them again. It was an error on my part to isolate them and advance them into rapid fire range of 30+ fire warriors. 

 

The saving grace is that it took all of those fire warriors plus the commander and riptide to put them down. My opponent pretty much committed a full round of shooting at that point into killing that unit which allowed me another turn of maneuvering / shooting with everything else. It wasn't a cheap squad though (>250 points). I also removed the intercessors first which gave me a majority Toughness 5 with the 3 aggressors left on the board which made them even more resilient. 

 

Next time I will be a little more cautious with them. They were surprisingly quick being able to move, advance and still pump out 14 shots at 30" and on average 41 shots at 18". 

 

 

Yep, T5 is such a significant survivability boost that all my units are either 5 bikes, or 4 aggressors/1 inceptor.  Which sucks because I want to work terminators into my veterans squads but its just not worth it.