Tigurius overcosted or Ahriman undercosted?

[Kallas]

Might of Heroes, Veil of Time, and Psychic Fortress are all AMAZING powers. Nullzone, whilst situational can be game changing, and Psychic Scourge also has a place as a targetable Smite.

 

The only really awful power is Fury of the Ancients.

Might is good with a good target for it, something like a Land Raider, Irina's

Ironclad/Leviathan, or another centerpiece type model. With just generic stuff it's not particularly incredible.

 

Veil is mediocre at best. Striking first only really matters in your opponent's turn and vanilla Marines don't have particularly good melee units.

 

Psychic Fortress is good, if you're facing massive psychic power on the other side, otherwise it's basically pointless.

 

Null Zone, as you said, is situational. The very short range makes it difficult to actually apply and the high Warp Charge value makes it hard to get off in the first place.

 

Psychic Scourge is ok, but it's an average of two Mortal Wounds with a significant chance of failure (manifestation and the roll off, as well as an actually low yield). It's not utterly trash, but it definitely isn't anything to write home about.

 

And Fury...urgh. So bad.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

The problem lies with the psychic powers available to Marines, not with Tigarius.

 

To put it bluntly, they are trash, some are utterly mediocre at best.

 

You're better off bringing a Culexus for psychic defence.

I'd strongly disagree with that statement. 

 

Might of Heroes, Veil of Time, and Psychic Fortress are all AMAZING powers.  Nullzone, whilst situational can be game changing, and Psychic Scourge also has a place as a targetable Smite.

 

The only really awful power is Fury of the Ancients.

 

 

QFT. These are all rock solid. I will also include Null Zone which can be a game winner.

[Captain Idaho]

I don't like Null Zone. There are too many points of failure in place to make it worthwhile. High Warp Charge, short range and then you got to hope the opponent doesn't Deny it, all the while a squishy Librarian needing to be up close to use the thing.

 

If you pull it off it can be game breaking of course. It's just too unreliable.

[Cruor Vault]

I don't like Null Zone. There are too many points of failure in place to make it worthwhile. High Warp Charge, short range and then you got to hope the opponent doesn't Deny it, all the while a squishy Librarian needing to be up close to use the thing.

 

If you pull it off it can be game breaking of course. It's just too unreliable.

 

I usually don't bring it for exactly those reasons, but sometimes I'll use Tigurius' 3rd slot just to make people afraid I might cast it.  I've had inexperienced players at tournaments get psyched out and be less aggressive towards my castle just because I chose it. 

 

At least with Tigurius the odds go up to ~2/3 to get it off.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I always run Tiggy who can reliably cast it with a CP. It’s a zone not one enemy unit. One game pretty much tabled Harlequins and another game killed Magnus and Mortarion.

[Ishagu]

Null Zone involves a psyker with no resiliency or invul save moving into close range to enemy units. Risky power with slim chance of casting. Tiggy is the only one that has a decent chance to cast it and even then you are risking the unit. Chaos' death hex is a far superior and more useful power with the same effect and no risk.

 

Astra Militarum, Eldar, Harlequins, Nids, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Chaos Marines and Blood Angels all have superior psychic disciplines.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You don’t charge the caster into combat - smart opponent will interrupt and kill Librarian. Like I said it’s been a game winner for me. We don’t have the best ones but we definite have some good ones though.

[Aothaine]

Null Zone involves a psyker with no resiliency or invul save moving into close range to enemy units. Risky power with slim chance of casting. Tiggy is the only one that has a decent chance to cast it and even then you are risking the unit. Chaos' death hex is a far superior and more useful power with the same effect and no risk.

 

Astra Militarum, Eldar, Harlequins, Nids, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Chaos Marines and Blood Angels all have superior psychic disciplines.

 

One thing you can do is try and cast it before moving/advancing. So you know if the zone is going off before you move him up into "The Danger Zone" by Kenny Loggins.

[Cruor Vault]

 

Null Zone involves a psyker with no resiliency or invul save moving into close range to enemy units. Risky power with slim chance of casting. Tiggy is the only one that has a decent chance to cast it and even then you are risking the unit. Chaos' death hex is a far superior and more useful power with the same effect and no risk.

 

Astra Militarum, Eldar, Harlequins, Nids, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Chaos Marines and Blood Angels all have superior psychic disciplines.

 

One thing you can do is try and cast it before moving/advancing. So you know if the zone is going off before you move him up into "The Danger Zone" by Kenny Loggins.

 

 

Psychic Phase is after the movement phase.

[Ishagu]

Exactly. You move him in then could fail.

[Tamiel]

I don't know if this has been said already (I haven't read the whole thread), but I don't think similar characters from diffirent codices are supposed to be equivalent in points. Some codices favour psykers more, so they're going to get better deals for pskyers than us Ultramrines will. This is just to encourage those psyker codices to take nice psykers like Ahriman.

If Ultramarine psykers were as cost effective as Ahriman, that would sort of step on the toes of the thousand sons codex. 

What I'm trying to say is that, if you look at them just as individual characters, then yeah, it's not fair. But if you compare the the codices, it makes sense that the thousand sons codex would be more cost efficient when it came to psykers.

[Aothaine]

 

 

Psychic Phase is after the movement phase.

 

 

I really should stop trying to suggest things without my book lol. Goodness. Thank you for the correction. I don't know why I thought it was psychic then movement..... it clearly isn't otherwise you would not be able to deep strike then cast psychic powers....

[Daigo Cannon]

One thing I would change on Tigurius aside from the know problems from the disciplines, it will be he could get a jump pack his lack of movility is a pain in the ass.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

He needs a melta flamer too .

[Ishagu]

If he gets better powers he'll be more worthwhile. I've not run a Marine librarian in months now.

[Prot]

If he gets better powers he'll be more worthwhile. I've not run a Marine librarian in months now.

I think this is a very meta specific statement. I haven’t run an Astartes list without one for a very long time. It would be far too punishing for me not to.

 

Just my opinion: ( this is a VERY Astartes specific rule I live by) - the difference between running 1 and none is massive. The difference between running 1 and 2 is negligible.

 

The short reason is the ability to make your Psyker heavy opponent contemplate and commit to his powers based on the chance of one denial or zero is considerable in more ways than one; positioning, order of operation, and commitment to getting the power off ALL come into play with one denial.

 

Add in Tigurius’ ability to point at an ailing Repulsor/Landraider or Guilliman who you know is about to be targeted by Oath Breaker Missile System, and making that threat -1 to hit is really worth it for him. I find it not only can affect the obvious results of shots fired but can change your opponent’s targeting sequence substantially.

[Ishagu]

I often run a Culexus assasin for power protection, but I don't feel our Librarians are worth it.

 

They aren't particularly cheap, and aside from Tigarius offer limited utility compared to similar psyker in other armies.