DW Terminators

[Delta.Skies]

Just looking through peoples list, and builds I notice there are not too many units of terminators in the mix. And i may only see 1 or 2 sprinkled into the mix. I myself dont like traditional terminator models, but heroes in terminator armor or the GK terminators just stand out more. So im curious, do you have a spot in your army for DW Terminators as a unit, maybe for fluff purposes or just in a Kill Team. Do you keep them vanilla, cause I really feel like whats the point when you can get a vet with stormshield and stormbolter, specially if you keep them Vanilla. I feel like im missing something when it comes to them. I wanted to do a unit of loaded Terminators to where each one looks like his own hero ( im debating cause i can get carried away and next thing you know 80 bucks for 5 termies, I think i put in about close to 60 - 80 kitbashing a unit of VV and Vets to do a possible large Kill Team ) Even with hq, I do not see them in termie armor in anybody's list. So im just asking for tips, reasons, explanations on using and why not on Termies / HQ Termies. 

 

Appreciate your time in reading, and possibly responding.

[Shas Oh Dear]

In all honesty they're overcosted just as they have been previously. The 2+ save is nice but for the most part your average enemy will have plenty of options to deal with them. They don't really do anything that a power armored alternative wouldn't do as well but they cost twice as much.

[Inquisitor Red]

For competitive play yeah they're not the best use of points. If your just wanting to have fun then yeah run em. I run a x5 man termie squad all with thunder hammer storm shield, accompanied by a Chaplain in Termie Armor. Again its really pricey but they do have a really good fun factor, just deep strike down and smash. As far as the default termie build goes I think your right Storm Bolter/Pfist build isn't totally trash with SIA on the storm bolter. Also keep in mind we can mix and match the weapon loadouts in our termie squads unlike our reg SM brothers so if you just want to have fun with termies you have tons of options. 

[Felstone]

They really need to do something about the point efficiency. Terminators of every variety aren't very competitive, i think the only ones who come close are blight lords and even then i don't see them in many lists.

[Chris521]

The only use I have for terminators is putting one into a large kill team for that 2+.  Beyond that, they are just too expensive.

[vigitant]

The only use I have for terminators is putting one into a large kill team for that 2+.  Beyond that, they are just too expensive.

 

This.

I sometimes put 2 termies PS/SB with 3 SS vets if im running frag cannons.  that gets expensive, though.  Less value now that its competing with Helblaster KT's and Aggressor/inceptor KT's as well as 4pt storm bolters.

[Moostick]

Terminator are too cool not to include.

 

And I need an elite slot filled.

[Delta.Skies]

Yea I saw some dope conversion of termies. (Because I can not stress this enough, i really dislike troop termies models) that made we want to put em in my army. But all kitted out. (Saw the BA captain termie and won that bid and thought about converting him for my killteam. They are very cool looking when modeled right. Just wanted to see what were there place in you guys army. As far as heavy weapons go I think I'm good on that because they suffer so much being played like the only option you do have is DS and either charging hard or shooting in a circle. But what about for hq purposes. Dont really hear too much about them being utilized, why?

[Mobius0288]

Terminator are too cool not to include.

 

And I need an elite slot filled.

 

Aggressors or Apothecary if you're just filling a slot

[Prot]

Honestly I've been putting 5 man squads in my army. They don't do much at all, and my last game they got wiped by Wraiths in one charge. But again, so cool. (Not the getting wiped part!)

[Moostick]

 

 

Terminator are too cool not to include.

 

And I need an elite slot filled.

Aggressors or Apothecary if you're just filling a slot

Not cool enough.

 

The worst thing about terminators are they are severely dependent on their deployment. You dropped them in too far and they're pretty much done for the game. Drop them in too deep and they're dead. They definitely need that 5 pt drop, which I am still convinced GW made a mistake on like the inferno pistols, but they refuse to touch points in FAQs anymore.

[Delta.Skies]

Is putting them in a land raider still a thing? Hehe

[Mobius0288]

Also since we're talking terminators, what about taking 5 vets and 5 terminators? Storm shields and bolter/storm bolters for the vets, storm bolters and power weapon for the termies. Ya it's more expensive... but I could totally see them being sent down the middle doing decent damage and being a really big distraction.

[leth]

For me the hardest part of terminators is that I want 5 buo3s for the toughness 5. Which increases survivability against most weapons. If I was not taking 5 bikes? Would totally work in 1-2 terminators. The survivability per point against certain shots is very high.

[FuriousBlackShield]

I really like a couple of Termies with Assault Cannons in my big squad with a few SS/BG, and a few Frag Cannons. They get to zap over to the Termie Capt who has teleported in, then later get zapped back to the teleport homer in the backfield. Very handy.

 

Also, 5 Stalker Vets and 5 Mixed Termies, can either Combat squad before the game to teleport in, or after deployment with 1cp... Obsec Terminators FTF!

[Prot]

I think after my latest game tonight I may be pulling the plug in the old Termies. I really don’t want to but I am getting very little mileage out of them.

 

I think the reality is the army is so expensive to field in the first place it just feels like ‘elite’ choices have to be exceptional or don’t bother. So I’m seeing I get one turn out of them typically before they get wiped by a hard hitting unit...this time it was Oblits. Yet at the same time the 2+ save just doesn’t mean anything. Add in that storm Bolters are accessible by a simple vet and the can be deep striking, it’s really hard to justify.

[ashc]

I have no idea how GW think that loyalist terminators of any flavour are competitively priced - people just aren't using them.

 

The teleportarium stratagem pretty much nullifies the need for terminators in deathwatch - you can deploy more useful tools and more powerful units using it.

 

The only real place I see for them is if you have a few points spare and really think you need a 2+ save in a kill team and go bare bones power weapon and stormbolter - which isn't often.

[Vel'Cona]

I have no idea how GW think that loyalist terminators of any flavour are competitively priced - people just aren't using them.

 

It's strange too, because early into 8th it looked like Terminators would finally see a turnaround thanks to the doubled Wounds and improved Deep Strike rules.  Unfortunately, even with points breaks in many codexes Terminators are just overpriced and trying to do too many things at once (generally).  For DW, while we can splash them into Kill Teams the inflated points cost and free access to Invulnerable saves/Storm Bolters makes our Terminators largely redundant.  The fact that GW subtly passed up the opportunity to give our Terminators a unique Strategem is a shame, too.

[xenomortis]

I ran terminators quite a bit when they were an index option. Usually 3 x assault cannon/power sword and 2 x TH/SS. They were a good option to deepstrike and do a job.

 

Now we have the codex I can't realistically see me using them anytime soon. They are just too costly in points for their damage output and survivability. Also with us now having the Teleportarium strategem we have easier access to deep striking units. 

 

I think they could do with a points deduction and it would be much better if we could once again either take single terminators or squads of 3.

 

I have A LOT of terminator bits which I had plans for. Unfortunately they will be added to the pile of 'will do something with these later' sprues :( 

[SwashBuccaneer]

I have one in a veteran kill team. However, this has me wondering how the save throws work in mixed kill teams and with storm shields. Do I use the 2+ on the terminator for all saves and then remove a model of my choice for failed ones or does the Terminator die at that point?

[mjrwaud]

I have one in a veteran kill team. However, this has me wondering how the save throws work in mixed kill teams and with storm shields. Do I use the 2+ on the terminator for all saves and then remove a model of my choice for failed ones or does the Terminator die at that point?

 

The model whose save is used is the one that takes the wound, but you get to pick who takes the hit.

Therefore, If you use the terminator's 2+ save then he's the one that takes the wound.

[SwashBuccaneer]

 

I have one in a veteran kill team. However, this has me wondering how the save throws work in mixed kill teams and with storm shields. Do I use the 2+ on the terminator for all saves and then remove a model of my choice for failed ones or does the Terminator die at that point?

 

The model whose save is used is the one that takes the wound, but you get to pick who takes the hit.

Therefore, If you use the terminator's 2+ save then he's the one that takes the wound.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that would be the case but wasn't 100% sure.

[RogueApiary]

I've had several games where I run 1-2 SB/PSword termies on my 4 frag cannon kill team to great success. The extra durability against trash fire combined with the 3-4 Bolter/shield vets for high AP makes for an obnoxiously sticky unit that melts everything within 8" of it unless your opponent devotes significant resources to killing it.

[leth]

The biggest problem they have as solo units is that the types of guns that are super bad against them are obvious, the types of guns that are super effective against them are obvious. 

Per point? Terminators cant be beat against Single Damage no AP or -1 AP weapons. 

 

A terminator getting shot by a bolter is 4 times as survivable as a veteran. Against any single damage weapon they are more than twice as survivable as a veteran.  When we start getting into -2(spitballing) territory they are slightly less than twice as survivable as a veteran with a storm shield, but they are less than half the cost so its about the same. 

 

However, the second we start to get into multiple damage weapons, especially with negative armor save modifiers their survivability/point drops through the floor. 

 

 

Which is why I think Terminators are probably most points efficient in our mixed squads(and have a significant role to play in survivability) because they get to choose what hits they are taking. If you are NOT going for T5 with 5 bikes then 2 terminators is actually a pretty solid investment. One of the biggest weaknesses of elite marine armies is just dying to volume of fire.  Terminators mean that it takes twice as many shots per wound. 

[Delta.Skies]

The biggest problem they have as solo units is that the types of guns that are super bad against them are obvious, the types of guns that are super effective against them are obvious.

Per point? Terminators cant be beat against Single Damage no AP or -1 AP weapons.

 

A terminator getting shot by a bolter is 4 times as survivable as a veteran. Against any single damage weapon they are more than twice as survivable as a veteran. When we start getting into -2(spitballing) territory they are slightly less than twice as survivable as a veteran with a storm shield, but they are less than half the cost so its about the same.

 

However, the second we start to get into multiple damage weapons, especially with negative armor save modifiers their survivability/point drops through the floor.

 

 

Which is why I think Terminators are probably most points efficient in our mixed squads(and have a significant role to play in survivability) because they get to choose what hits they are taking. If you are NOT going for T5 with 5 bikes then 2 terminators is actually a pretty solid investment. One of the biggest weaknesses of elite marine armies is just dying to volume of fire. Terminators mean that it takes twice as many shots per wound.

Ok I have a deep striking unit with:

- 1 sarge w lance and stormbolter

- 1 black shield w lance and stormbolter

- 1 VV with chainsword and stormbolter

- 2 vets w lance and melta

- 2 vets w stormbolters and stormshields

 

would you still throw 2 termies in there on top of ss vets for increased survivability or replace vets with 2 termies?