What ammo to pick and Boys versus Toys - Survivability

[leth]

Hello Everyone, I made two charts and I figured I would share them with everyone!

 

The first is which special issue ammo to select for any given target.  I made just so I can figureout what situations where it is best to use one round over another.  The second showcases survivability per point against a range of weapon types. 

 

Special Issue Ammo

 

The numbers in each cell represent how many shots are required to cause 1 unsaved wound on any given target. If the gun has a native -1 then treat the targets armor save as one less. 

 

The left column is without re-roll 1s to wound, the right is with re-roll 1s to wound. RR1 means Re-roll 1s to hit, RRA means re-roll all misses. (assumes no -1s to hit). 

 

So, for a Bolter(no re-rolls) to get an unsaved wound on a T3 target with a 3+ armor save would require 6.8 shots. 

 

 

The cells highlighted in green are the rounds that are the best for any specific target. 

 

 

 

Thats a lot of numbers! To simplify the takeaways.  

 

Against T3 and T4 - Vengence Rounds when the save is 4+ or better.  Hellfire if it is worse

Against T5+ Hellfire unless it is a 2+ save

Outside of T8+ Hellfire, always go for a round that can give you double shots. 

Although not covered in the chart, dragonfire efficiency goes up the more negative hit modifiers you have, dealing with those rangers in cover? Then it can help. 

 

 

Survivability

 

This chart shows how different models survive against different types of weapons.  Our veterans squads are one of the most customizable units in the game. When designing a unit it is super important to think about what it can do, and how we can get the most survivability out of a very expensive unit. One of the great things is that we can allocate wounds very easily based on whatever is coming at us.  Basic guns? Terminators and bikes, Multiple wounds? Veterans, High AP? Storm shields.  It means that our opponent doesnt really have any good weapons that can be optimized against our units. However, if we take upgrades on EVERY model, a lot of these benefits are lost.  Killing a 25 point veteran with multi damage weapon is just as good as killing an intercessor. 

 

So with that in mind I made the following chart.  The number in the cell represents how many points per hits of a given type, it will take to kill the target.  Lower numbers are better. I know this is a weird way to look at it, but I figured turning it into something tangible, instead of raw numbers, would be more helpful for people to absorb. 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/Z8sA3Gl.png?1

 

So a veteran with a bolter is shot by a Str 4, -1 weapon. So that wounds a veteran on a 4+ and results in the veteran taking a 4+ save. Looking at the chart we see that it is 4.3 points per hit required to kill.   

 

For the same gun firing on an intercessor we see that it requires 2.5 points per hit. So per point we can see that against that weapon type the intercessor is 72% more survivable. 

 

One thing this chart highlights is how quickly the primaris marines lose their points advantage against weapons with multiple damage. Against damage two, with the same profile, the intercessor drops to 5.0 points per hit. 

 

But now lets look at something that I see come up quite often - not taking stormbolters on everyone. 

 

So lets look at a veteran with a bolter versus a veteran with a storm bolter. 

 

Against a bolter, it requires 6 hits to kill either veteran. The bolter veteran requires 2.8 points per hit.  The Storm bolter vet is 3.3 points per hit.  For the points saved on 5 storm bolters you could get slightly less than 1 bolter veteran. Is that 1 wound worth losing 4-8 special issue shots per turn? I doubt it.

 

So on and so forth.

 

I hope this is kind of useful for the purposes of talking about unit composition and really thinking about what upgrades are worth it, and what upgrades are not. 

[Vel'Cona]

Wow, those are lovely graphs!  I'll have to muddle my slow, aging brain through these later but I do appreciate it all being laid out for me :D

 

TL:DR; Storm Bolters are as cash as we thought? :)

[Claws and Effect]

TL:DR; Storm Bolters are as cash as we thought? :)

 

Yep.

 

5 man squad costs an additional 20 points to give every one a storm bolter.

 

In rapid fire range that equates to 1 point per shot. I basically always use Hellfire unless the range dictates Kraken would be better.

 

But I'm usually shooting at a big Tyranid critter, so take with a grain of salt.

[leth]

Added in Terminators quick! 

 

But yeah, the math has me considering adding in a terminator. Sure the first volley of shots will be at T4, but once 2 marines die then its back up to T5. Against volley of fire they are almost twice as survivable for the points. More if you add in wargear to the other models in the unit. 

 

Next step will be making a macro for calculating survivability/point for all of them based on the stats of the gun being fired at them haha. So that we can see them in that exact situation all right next to each other instead of spread out. 

[Vel'Cona]

 

But I'm usually shooting at a big Tyranid critter, so take with a grain of salt.

 

Doing the Emperor's work, I'd say! :D