The (Knight) Best Fit For Mechanicus

[Prot]

I’ve seen some of the leaks but I’ve been so busy I haven’t had much 40k time since I overdosed on my recent tournament. But I know you guys probably know the scoop on all the Mechanicus house rules.

 

I thought maybe this would be a good time and place to break down the respective Mechanicum Houses that may be a better fit for AdMech Allies.

 

For example, is there a house that’s going to fit in with AdMech repair strategems, or should the new building be considered?

 

What if your AdMech feature CC Walkers, and you want a great ranged house? Perhaps the opposite appeals?

[Mushkilla]

The new building is underwhelming/terrible. As you sacrifice a turn of movement, shooting and assaulting. It's really hard to justify using it. It does provide terrain and cover, and might have some niche use with a gallant but even then that's questionable.

My understanding is knights only get access to households if you have at least three of them. As the house hold rules specifically apply to super heavy detachments and not auxiliary super heavy detachments. This means if you want house rules at a minimum you need to run 3 armigers, or a questoris/dominus and two armigers.

The mechanicus knights houses are great, from memory:

Krast: re-roll to hits in close combat when charging, being charged and heroic intervention. Re-roll hits in the right phase all the time against titanic vehicles.

Krast stratagem 1CP: exploding 6s in the fight phase, 6s to hit become 2 hits, 3 hits against units with the chaos keyword.

Taranis: 6+ FNP against all wounds that are not mortal wounds.

Taranis stratagem 2CP: when a knight model is destroyed but does not explode at the end of the phase on a 4+ it gets back up with d3 wounds.

Vulker: re-roll 1s when resolving shooting attacks against the closest target.

Vulker stratagem 1CP: exploding 6s, 6s to hit in the shooting phase count as 2 hits.

Raven: when advancing all heavy weapons count as assault, assault weapons do not suffer the penalty to hit for advancing.

Raven stratagem 2CP: re-roll all 1s in the shooting phase: number of hits, hit rolls, wound rolls, damage rolls.

Hope that helps.

[Heliomanes]

I think there's a very good argument to be made for the following alternatives;

Dominus Castelan - which always will want to use the "Wrath of Cawl" relic, which is Mechanicus only . He will want to overcharge it, so access to rerolling 1s is very good for him - for instance the Raven stratagem, or through Knight of the Cog and access to Canticles, but this is less reliable. Because of the Dominus chassis' only has access to a very expensive "rotate ion shields", the 4++ warlord trait seems like a good fit for them.

Knight Gallant. He's cheap, has access to tons of incredible stratagems - and Traditions, Relics and Warlord traits that can boost his survivability, mobility and combat output. Tons of fun and interesting synergies to be made. You can stack advance and charge bonuses, and pop the advance + charge stratagem to get a turn 1 charge, and go ape.

Knight Warden. Preferably with the fist and the gatling gun, perhaps with the stormspear pod as well, depending on points and chosen Tradition. House Raven will always want to move, advance, shoot and charge. The fist can use the Death Grip aka Squish stratagem to destroy pretty much anything, especially if you use Knight of the Cog to up the strength through canticles. You'll always want to take the relic gatling gun, and a warlord trait that boosts survivability.

I'm not sure if the other options are all there. I really want to like the armigers, but...

[Mushkilla]

I'm loving house Raven Crusaders.

 

In some ways house raven get two stratagems. The stratagem "Full Tilt" which lets you charge after advancing is a huge trade off for other households (outside of knight gallants) as you effectively sacrifice a shooting phase when you advance. Knights are big expensive units, sacrificing your shooting phase on one of these models is not something you want to do lightly. Raven don't have to make that trade off. 

 

In addition to this, house raven knights really mess with your opponents threat zones as they effectively can add d6" to their threat range. They can also advance and charge with no penalties, making their assault threat range more unpredictable too. Combine this with the "Landstrider" warlord trait and you get +2 to your advances/charges. This makes Raven knights blazingly fast when they advance, 15-20" movement (great for flanking, scoring objectives and outmanoeuvring your opponent), 18-36" assault threat range when using "Full Tilt".

 

Finally, the Raven stratagem is fantastic on crusaders, as it lets you re-roll all 1s in the shooting phase. I cannot stress how much more dangerous this makes your shooting phase.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Did someone mention the terribad shrine? Because I thought I heard someone the terribad shrine. Gonna reiterate how absolutely terribad it is. I'll pretend this is useful info to you all, and not just me venting because I wanted it to be good

 

The shrine is a steaming pile of TERRIBAD. The benefits are extremely minor and the costs gigantic, sacrificing the complete damage output of a knight for 1 turn and having it stay put.

 

The only way this could be remotely valuable is if your knight this turn can't do any damage output anyway. A Gallant getting a next turn movement boost for instance, gives up very little shooting and presumably couldn't charge now anyway if you're opting to give him a speed boost next turn. A crusader maximizing the number of hits next turn is only benefitting you on average if you can't actually fire at anything this turn. On average you'll do more damage shooting twice so it can only really appeal to people who area really risk-adverse otherwise. Finally getting 1-3 wounds back on your 24+ wound not-quite a-titan while forgoing its offense for a turn is, again, only really worth it if you can't utilize said offense anyway.

 

Chances are though, if you're not able to utilize the offense of your knight, you should be rethinking his positioning

 

I might still get a shrine though because I like the concept of it and it's cheap on the wallet. Maybe I can make like a mini diorama out of it or something. Doubtful it'll ever see use on an actual battlefield though.

[MagicHat]

Against an army that mostly deepstrikes and hides the rest of their army outside LoS... A valiant in a shrine at the middle of the board could be fun.

Still Extremely niche.

[Charlo]

You need a SHD (3 LoW) minimum to unlock Household traits. This could be 3 Armigers, a Knight and two Armigers or 3 Big Knights etc.

 

HOWEVER you only get the 3CP from the SHD if you bring three Questoris/ Dominus knights (read: Not Armigers).So one Knight is not enough anymore. The good news however is that Armigers are Dirt Cheap and thus amazing now!

 

Personally, looking at the helpful list Mushkilla has provided, Ad Mech stand to benefit a lot from Krast:

 

A Gallant and two Warglaives pushing forward are a huge distraction and now very affordable for the power they bring. Re-rolling hits keeps them very effective in assault and the Relic Thunderstrike is downright nasty on a 2+ re-rolling to hit Knight.

 

If you want to go the balanced or shooty route though a Crusader and some Helverins will lay down some serious S7 AP-1 firepower, the likes that Ad Mech are lacking in (outside of Kastellan Phorphor which is similar in power, but slow and inaccurate, better used for Wrath of Mars for Mortal Wounds).

[sneakybamsen]

If you want ranged firepower, I'd suggest you to go with House Raven as Mushkilla mentioned. I'm considering it myself, but my plan for 2K includes two gallants, a warden, castigator and two helverines (they better make sure armigers can grant CP) in 2 detachments, so my list is not optimized for House raven. I would like to be able to fit a crusader, but that will cost on CP's, as I'll need to discard a helverine, and I'm pretty sure that's not worth it.

[Heliomanes]

The shrine is terrible and should be repurposed as scenery.

I'm not feeling the Crusader. Mushkilla is right about the House Raven bonuses, but they are so expensive. And now that you need a relic to upgrade a gun to become more powerful, the secondary option becomes more underwhelming than it already was. The battle cannon is just overcosted for what it does, even if you somehow choose the relic upgrade for that one instead of the gatling. Wardens with gatlings and fists just seem like so much more value for the points.

I think Charlo is right about House Krast. If you want to go with 2 melee focused knights and 1 shooty one, then they are a good flat upgrade. Still, having access to the House Raven stratagem is just so good...

[Karhedron]

I'm not feeling the Crusader. Mushkilla is right about the House Raven bonuses, but they are so expensive. And now that you need a relic to upgrade a gun to become more powerful, the secondary option becomes more underwhelming than it already was. The battle cannon is just overcosted for what it does, even if you somehow choose the relic upgrade for that one instead of the gatling. Wardens with gatlings and fists just seem like so much more value for the points.

One point in favour of the RFBC is that if you are popping the Raven strat, you can also reroll 1s for your number of shots, this compensates somewhat for the swinginess of the RFBC. A Fist is nice though as that "Squish" stratagem looks fun for dealing with tough targets. You just have to remember to say "I find your lack of faith..... disturbing!" every time you use it.

[Charlo]

Deathgrip (and some points woes) has single-handedly (heh!) made me reevaluate the possibility of including a Gallant in my Doubles list...

[LucidNinja]

So I'm planning on 2 style of ally (yeah I'll do a whole house also soon) first is the Castellan, cawls wrath relic and krast WL trait. Reroll 1s on that supercharged plasma and all the other dakka it's putting out.

The other idea is 2 warglave and a gallant. Gallant with super fist and iron strider. Pop full tilt and a turn 1 charge is very achievable, had the warglaves advance up and support some melta with their assault guns. The gallant is essentially a 19-36" bs2+ 15shot battle cannon or 5 shot s16 ap-4 8d flying fist

[Frostglaive]

I'm fairly certain that both the improvements on the Gallant and the Darth Vader Stratagem (I agree, you must say "I find your lack of faith disturbing" at all times this strat is popped)  has made the Gallant an auto-include in my Knight army from now on.

 

Now I just need to repaint his gauntlet black to make it the Vader glove.....

[Vel'Cona]

While I like the melee potential of Krast and the mobility of Raven (hard to beat), my personal pick is Taranis simply because anything that will keep your expensive Knights on the table longer is a good thing.  With 12-28 Wounds per model, that's a lot of chances to pull some clutch 6s and every little bit helps.  Also consider Taranis' Strategem to pull a lategame save on an expensive Dominus-class or Crusader; while it's a 50/50 shot Command Re-Rolls are a thing and for another bargain 1 CP we can bring that formerly crippled Knight to full functionality, and there's next to nothing our opponent can do to stop it (though be wary of Dark Eldar!).

[Karhedron]

Gallant with super fist and iron strider. Pop full tilt and a turn 1 charge is very achievable, had the warglaves advance up and support some melta with their assault guns. The gallant is essentially a 19-36" bs2+ 15shot battle cannon or 5 shot s16 ap-4 8d flying fist

Looks like Slamguinius just got a Turn 1 charge buddy!

 

What house do you think? Terryn would increase the reliability of your Advance and Charge moves. Or Krast for rerolls in CC?

[Aegir_Einarsson]

I’m a huge fan of 2+\4++ shooting nightshroud gallant

[Heliomanes]

If you're going the "Blood for the Omnissiah!"-route, you might actually consider going for the Questor Imperialis House Terryn. You'll want to throw them in the opponent's face anyway, so repair rolls aren't the biggest priority.

Their House Tradition lets you roll another dice and discard the lowest when advancing and charging, and they have access to a stratagem that lets you fight twice, ala Khorne Berzerkers. The Warlord trait that allow you to reroll charge range is also pretty good.

An example;

1 Knight Gallant, 4++ or landstrider as warlord trait, 2+ armor or 5++ in melee or obsec as relic.
2 Armiger Warglaives

Turn 1 you simply run, advance and charge a ridiculus range with yout Gallant via the full tilt stratagem, and attack twice. In the consequent turns even a warglaive can be pretty terrifying, since it gets 8 attacks using its sweep attack mode, and you can turn that to 16 with the stratagem... Not bad for what looks to be less than 700 points, which is managable enough to slot into a functional army.

I've also been pondering House Krast for more of a mixed force.

1 Castelan, reroll 1s to hit warlord trait, plasma relic
1 Knight Gallant, 4++ warlord trait, 2+ relic
1 Armiger Warglaive

I think this might be "small" enough to still allow me to use functional allies for something more than just CP generation, and offer a good mix of synergies. Shoot the gallant into the enemy with the appropriate stratagem, and keep him working at max efficiency through a mix of him rerolling to hit and the Machine Spirit Resurgent strat. Castelan shoots overcharged plasma with rerolls in comparative safety, while the Gallant claims their attention and tries to tank through it. If you have the points for it, upgrade the Armiger to a Gallant, but I find that difficult and like the specialized Gallant. You can only use the appropriate relics, warlord traits and stratagems once, after all.

[Karhedron]

I think the Gallant just became the new Distraction Carnifex.

[helterskelter]

If you're playing the board long ways if you take a shrine, wait with the gallant t1 parked in the shrine, then let him go, like when you used to charge up Sonics spin.

[Tiger9gamer]

Kinda sad to see my lone knight detachment won't be getting a household, but hey it's only around what, 858 points for a fully loaded crusader and two amigers (one edward gun hands, one melta guy) leaving me around 1142 points worth of mechanics to fit in (three dune crawlers with neutrons, 45 skitarii and 10 electropriests in a battalion, whooo! )

 

Make the thermal spear crusader a crast warlord with endless fury and rerolling ones, and I got a massive counter charging unit with tons of support)

[jeffersonian000]

I would say that there are no “losers” with the new Dex other than the terrain piece (garbage), and us as paying customers given the CP debacle we have with the Lance Formation.

 

The obvious stars are:

 

Gallants

Wardens

Castellans

Helverins

Warglaives

Any Knight with a Thunderstrike Gauntlet

 

I’d say the only Knights left behind are those with a RFBC, since 100 points for that weapons is still a bit too much.

 

SJ

[Tiger9gamer]

I would say that there are no “losers” with the new Dex other than the terrain piece (garbage), and us as paying customers given the CP debacle we have with the Lance Formation.

The obvious stars are:

Gallants

Wardens

Castellans

Helverins

Warglaives

Any Knight with a Thunderstrike Gauntlet

I’d say the only Knights left behind are those with a RFBC, since 100 points for that weapons is still a bit too much.

SJ

Yea, the lance formation is nutty. How the heck is spending at least 800 points for one warden and two helverins not worth at least a couple cp's? Heck, you can have 9 warglaives worth around 1,400 points and yet not get a single command point from it. Kinda silly.

 

Still, probably going to be running an aux detachment with my mechanicus anyways until I manage to get enough scratch for some warglaives and helverines

[jeffersonian000]

I’m pretty sure the CP adjustment for Brigades and Battalions occurred after the IK codex went to print, which is why the Knight Lance rules appear so tone deaf. If we do not see an errata correcting it, I’d be surprised.

 

Of course, GW is world renowned for their tone deafness.

 

SJ

[Cleon]

I can imagine a compromise coming in, that you get as many CPs as you have Questoris+Dominus in the Lance to a maximum of three.

[Vel'Cona]

I’d say the only Knights left behind are those with a RFBC, since 100 points for that weapons is still a bit too much.

 

FWIW the Terryn-unique Relic RFBC is much better, but being shorted into HAVING to play that House to get it really stinks.  It bothers me because I love the classic Paladin and it's the only Knight I currently have painted, but running him as a Freeblade (given how melee centric Freeblades are) is sub-optimal.