How to deal with Dark Elder?

[Schwills]

Hey Guys, 

 

I recently have begun a campaign against dark elder and am really struggling to make an impact against them in games. Both of the "scout" missions we did I was utterly obliterated in, only killing a couple of models in the first game before getting boarded myself and while I did better in the second game, It did not stop me from getting tabled.

 

So I was wondering, are there any tactics or units with specific loadouts that would help me do better? Not looking to completely smash my opponent, just want to have a fleshed out game and put up a fight :D 

 

The only unit I'm thinking could work are razorbacks with assault cannons to keep my infantry safe and provide some fire support.

 

 

Thanks guys!

 

[Are Verlo]

Well, we/you need more info. What was your army, what was the mission, do you have proper terrain and what was your opponent´s army like.

When we know more, we can help. DE have great anti-infantry shooting and good cc, but they still have plenty of decent anti-tank/monster options.

[Schwills]

Well, we/you need more info. What was your army, what was the mission, do you have proper terrain and what was your opponent´s army like.

When we know more, we can help. DE have great anti-infantry shooting and good cc, but they still have plenty of decent anti-tank/monster options.

My army consisted of a 5 man scout squad, 10 tacs, a librarian and a land speeder. My opponent’s army consisted of a raider, 10 wyches, 5 helions, 3 reavers, an archon and a venom. We were playing 25pl.

 

My opponent seems to have quite a balanced force to kill marines efficiently (The meta round me is basically 75% power armour)

 

We have a descent amount of terrain, some ruins and such - not too much line of sight blocking terrain tho.

 

Like I said, the only hope I can think of is hiding is relatively cheap transport vehicles or in deep strike to try and hit him hard first turn - working at cracking the glass cannon style of dark elder.

 

This Sunday we are playing 45 PL

[Julius Firefocht]

Hmm... I play Drukhari as my main army now after putting aside my BA indefinitely. To be honest your opponent is not fielding the optimal units that the Drukhari codex has to offer, you should be able to beat him easily if you play around the terrain and use more jump-pack units along with Captain Slamguinius or Mephiston. 

 

So instead, I will offer a general idea of the biggest threats that you should be aware of when you fight the Drukhari. You might come across these things in the future since you are playing a campaign.

 

~~~~~

 

1) Kabal of the Black Heart Spearhead Detachment

 

Most often consists of 1 Archon with Writ of the Living Muse artifact, and 3 Ravagers armed with Disintegrator Cannons. This is a very powerful combination, the Archon allows the Ravagers to reroll 1s to hit and wound and each Ravager is capable of producing 9 S5 AP-3 D2 shots. Left unchecked this group of units will single-handedly wipe any power armored infantry units (maybe except Raven Guards) in very short order before starting to work on your tanks.

 

This Black Heart Speartip also grants access to....

 

2) Agents of Vect strategem (AoV) and Labyrinthine Cunning warlord trait.

 

You wanna use Descent of Angels on your Death Company that you dropped in your 2nd turn? Your Drukhari opponent with a Black Heart detachment will pay 3 CP, say "No" and you will not get to use that strategem in your turn. Its as simple as that.

 

I've lost count of the number of times victory has been secured simply by vetoing an important strategem at an opportune moment. A large portion of Captain Slamguinius' power comes from the usage of strategems, not to mention BA units rely on strategems to get in a 3D6 charge or to redeploy with Upon Wings of Fire, so you NEED to take note of this.

 

Where would your Drukhari opponent farm his CPs to keep using AoV, you wonder? His Black Heart Archon has a Warlord Trait called Labyrinthine Cunning, which allows him to roll a D6 for every CP that is used to pay for strategems, both yours and his.

 

As a Drukhari player myself, I cannot overstate how important it is to quickly destroy or neutralize the entire Black Heart Spearhead Detachment and its Archon, though smart Drukhari players will know how to keep their units safe from attack.

 

3) Cult of the Red Grief Reaver Jetbikes

 

These Jetbikes can charge you on turn 1, by flying 18" and advancing a flat 8". Their Cult trait allows them to charge after advancing and rerolled failed charges. They are not easy to deal with if they use drugs to get to T5 with 2W, plus they can both shoot and assault pretty well. I use mine in a giant swarm of 12 Jetbikes, and they work beautifully.

 

4) Grotesques and Wracks supported by Urien Rakarth

 

I do not have their exact stats with me right now, but to summarize, these units are at least T5/T6 when within 6" of Urien, with a 4++ save followed by a 6+++ FNP save. Grotesques have multiple wounds and hit hard in melee.. think of them as meat tanks that are dangerous when fielded in large units. Commonly used by Drukhari players to tie up important units and outlast the opponent using the combination of high Toughness and invul saves.

 

~~~~~

 

That's off the top of my head. There are other nasty surprises such as the Blood Dancer Succubus that can potentially throw out 10+ attacks hitting on 2s, wounding on flat 4s with AP-2 and Mandrakes, among other things. Just use your BA's jump pack mobility to play around terrain, bear in mind that when you charge you will wound his vehicles on 4+ and any of his Kabalite or Cult infantry on 2+, assume your power armor is useless since Drukhari armies pack too much high AP weapons and play your strategems with Agents of Vect in mind, and you have a good start to work with. 

 

Note: Edited for the correct movement speed of Reaver Jetbikes and some spelling errors.

[Are Verlo]

The game is a whole lot less balanced at lower points/power levels. 

At that few pl you are stuck with sub-par units like tacticals. Tacticals are unfortunately quite bad (completely rotten)- scouts and intercessors do it all better.

There are some niche builds, like combi-flamer & HF on a 5 man squad, 5 man with HB, 5 man with combi-plasma & Plasma gun. Many marie units are strictly better at bringing more special and/or heavy weapons , but taticals can work ok for unclocking CP from the battalion detatchmen (as long as you have some units that can put the CP to good use).

 

But going by his list, then some decent vehicles would be nice.

 

Drop the tacticals, go for scouts and some quality units. Grab an ancient and go for the standard.

 

Put a bit brutal; 5 scouts, 10 tacticals, a librarian and a landspeeder is a terrible army. 

[The Unseen]

I'll reiterate, but it's your army in this case.

Tacticals are bad, and at low pts level having dead weight is crippling.

The land speeder is also pretty bad, as it pays through the nose for mobility that it doesn't want to use thanks to the move and fire heavy penalty and overall fragility, though it is better than the tacticals.

 

Trade the tacs for more scouts, either bolter or pistols/knives, and maybe swap the speeder for some other form of long range firepower, devastator squads are quite good in small games.

 

My 500 pt list as an example, which is close to 25 pl, is

 

Captain, shield+hammer, foresight and death visions for 5+++ rerolling 1s

 

2 squads of 5 pistol/blade scouts, sarge has storm bolter+knife

 

2 squads of 3 scout bikes, which are a hidden gem in our book.

77 pts gets you 3 bikers with shotgun, twin bolter, and a ccw, for 6 str4 shots at 12" and 2 attacks in cc, along with the usual bike bonuses

 

Dev squad with I think a plasma cannon and 2 heavy bolters, and a cherub.

Turn 1 the cherub and signum give the PC extra shot that hits on 2s, that can't overheat.

[Majkhel]

^^ exactly as The Unseen said.

At that low points go for cheap multitude of firepower with bonus assault elements. This last is particularly easy with our Red Thirst. Basically everything we have can do serious damage in CC.

In a 500pts assback might be too pricey. Devs with HB will be great. Remember the Hellfire stratagem.

[Paladin777]

In many places in this forum you will see people encouraging the use of intercessors. I am normally one of these people but I would strongly advise against it i this case given how easily ravagers would shred them.

 

To those with a bit more experience, would plasma inceptors be advisable? Or just a liability as they are rather pricy?