Drizzt79 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 174 points each, a lot of Dakka ....60’’ heavy 2d3 T7 AP-1 3D, no penalty for moving and shooting heavy Sounds good to me as a backfield movable shooting platform.... Together with 1 or 2 vendreads TLLas+missile to manage T8 tanks (165pts each) What do you think guys? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisada Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I'm getting a box ... definitely wanna try them out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5102568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 I'm getting a box ... definitely wanna try them out I just ordered aggressors and a redemptor....armigers will come next month to join my army The problem is to keep up with the painting mostly :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5102575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviler Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 The helverins are 4D3 shots as they have two cannons. Plus the heavy stubber. Two and a single twin LC/ML venerable dread should be enough. Both target saturation and firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5102587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1SB Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 The Armiger Helverin is one of two units that stood out to us in the new Knights codex (the other being the Knight Gallant). As a frame of reference, we compared the Helverin to the Autocannon Leman Russ (Exterminator). Instead of the tank's 4 Autocannon shots (and a Heavy Bolter), you get 4d3 super-Autocannon shots, at a difference of less than 20 points, along with the high mobility already mentioned. That does seem like quite a decent deal. Thus, we totally agree with you guys. The Imperium already has a lot of good shooty options from the Astra Militarum and AdMech. The Helverin actually seems to get even better bang for the buck than them. Definitely worth considering. That said, we also noted Dreadnoughts were still worth taking. They're easier to buff within a Space Marine army. Thus, just IMHO, I agree both options remain viable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5102654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 The Helverins are good, but I’d always be looking for more Command points with my DW. It’s really hard the way they’ve written the new Knight Codex to get 3 cp from the Super heavy detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5102700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 The helverins are 4D3 shots as they have two cannons. Plus the heavy stubber. Two and a single twin LC/ML venerable dread should be enough. Both target saturation and firepower. Yeah 4D3 shots....in average 8 shots, and for 1cp rerol all fails vs Fly. Not bad at all. To get some more cps we need 2 battalion detachments, but I don’t like to spend so many points on HQs (at least 400) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5102759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius0288 Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Ya I'd agree with everyone. The Helverins can provide really good support but it's really hard losing my 2nd battalions for it. Hmm..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5103176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueApiary Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Ya I'd agree with everyone. The Helverins can provide really good support but it's really hard losing my 2nd battalions for it. Hmm..... Easy, one DW BN, one AM CP battery BN, one Helverin Det. It's not like losing two DW HQ's hurts most lists and you can get up to six DW troops in the single DW BN. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5103566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
leth Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Did the math on Helverins and I honest just don’t see them being better than a leviathan for the points, especially since we are already spending all the points to buff things with watchmasters anyway, while the Helverins don’t get any rerolls. I did the math, and all three combined would not kill 1 bloat drone. Even worse against T8 things like Knights. They are good, but not good enough at what we need them to do over dreadnaughts(that would benefit from the plus/reroll ones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5103613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius0288 Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 And the other consideration if you're doing 2 battalions plus helverins, that means you may have to sacrifice your vehicles/transports to make it work. Which in turn means using up a couple CPs to deep strike kill teams. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5103817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteridder Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 If you take them, is your army still battleforged? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5103856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 If you take them, is your army still battleforged? As long as they're in their own Detachment, sure. You could run a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment of IK alongside a Battalion (for example) of DW and it'd be 100% battleforged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/348042-armiger-helverins-as-a-backfield-shooting-platform/#findComment-5103868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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